My 2019 718 Cayman GTS PDK

[Motorhead]

Yes, the juveniles on some forums are unjustifiably scathing of the F-4T engine ... best to ignore them I think. The main thing is that you enjoy the car for what it is and not what others would like it to be.

And for whatever reason, if you're in the market for a new or nearly new Cayman or Boxster there's no other option at the moment. Of course, Porsche have reacted to the criticism and the n/a F-6 718 GTS is coming soon, but it's bound to be very pricey compared with your 2.0L base car and therefore out of reach for most owners.

I'm sure that as a fellow 718 owner, Brian would welcome comments on your own experiences.

Jeff

 

[Ray]

I cannot believe that some are still moaning about the flat four engine. If people dont like the setup my advice would be, buy something other. I run a flat six Cayman and a flat six Boxster would I buy a flat four Cayman, probably.

Ray

 

[geoff lane]

A refreshing change to other Porsche forums that I used to read, Brian. I’m very happy with my year old Cayman 2.0 F4, but on a lot of other boards there just seems to be a constant hate of the engine and it’s been called everything from a ‘bag of rusty bolts’ to ‘a disgrace’, so I tend just to visit here now for interesting and informative posts

I am afraid you will always get negative comments on Forums often by people who have not owned the cars.

I have owned a 718 BS and a 718BGTS, I have also owned a 981BGTS and while I prefer the sound of the 981 the 718GTS is a faster car with a better chassis and far better steering. My 981 was a manual against the 718 being PDK, I must admit I prefer manual for a weekend car but the 718 is much much better than a lot give it credit. Brian is correct a lot of rubbish is written about the 4cyl T engine, the issue is ONLY the sound and those who have not owned a F6 will find it more than acceptable.

 

[Technetium]

A refreshing change to other Porsche forums that I used to read, Brian. I’m very happy with my year old Cayman 2.0 F4, but on a lot of other boards there just seems to be a constant hate of the engine and it’s been called everything from a ‘bag of rusty bolts’ to ‘a disgrace’, so I tend just to visit here now for interesting and informative posts

Agree. This place seems to be a bit of an 'oasis'.

On other car forums there are always a minority of idiots/trolls who spoil it for everyone.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Thank you all!

Your comments have made my efforts to honestly describe the virtues of the 718 4t as a DRIVER'S car feel worthwhile.

As previously stated, I am a chassis man. The engine is but a facilitator of power delivery for me. I will adapt my driving skills to suit the power unit in question.

I have previous racing experience of a wide variety of deliciously sounding naturally aspirated combustion engines. The throaty Lotus twin-cam in my Elan, the 9000rpm Coventry-Climax derived Imp engine in my hill-climb Stiletto, to name but two.

Those who describe the 718 4t with derision, do not really know the car as a driver's experience on real roads, as the car was originally designed for. On twisty, technical tracks, my 718 Cayman GTS PDK, will out-perform most other Porsches, regardless of type. I have GoPro video evidence to back that statement up.

Of the five Caymans I have owned, three have been n/a flat-6's. My current Cayman is the best of the lot.

Having said that, I have no axe to grind against the 981, 982 or any future flat-six derivative of the Cayman marque. Suffice to say, never under-estimate the 718 4t.

Brian

 

[Motorhead]

Well said Brian. I think your key statement is: I will adapt my driving skills to suit the power unit in question.

I believe that as individuals some are more adaptable than others. A significant amount of my working life was spent driving and assessing prototype vehicles at various stages of development on road and test track, and believe me, a high degree of driving adaptability was required until the vehicles were relatively close to release..! It taught me a lot of things about driving on the open road too.

Jeff

 

[waxman]

Hi All

I strongly feel that those who know their Porsche history should acknowledge the number of 4 cylinder engines the marque has developed and raced with great success . In my view my 718T is about the best car I’ve driven - and I believe the Boxster should be a 4 cylinder ! Just as my 911 991 GT3 was a n/ a flat 6 and I’d not want that to change I think the Boxster should always have be a 4 cylinder as a development of this great PORSCHE lineage and individual identity from the 911.

Tony

 

[Brian_Innes]

I think the problem with public acceptance of the 4t as a power unit for the Cayster models was the definitively prejudiced views of magazine road testers, who described the early 718's engine as somehow unworthy of the Porsche brand. Many simply wrote what their core readership wanted to hear. "A four cylinder 2.5 turbo Porsche! You must be kidding!" They scoffed at the 2.0 engine as being completely irrelevant and not fit to be installed in any Porsche.

Subsequent short road tests by private individuals were by then already coloured by the magazine journalists reports. The journos had reported at some length that the engine sounded horrible, so sceptical 987 and 981 owners were already pre-primed to form the same opinion. Of course it was a major sea change for Porsche to introduce a four cylinder turbo engine for their sports cars. Especially on a range with an already enviable class-leading reputation for precision handling. Of the Porsche sports car range, the Cayster was the obvious candidate for the 4t engine. Unfortunately for us enthusiasts, the world we currently live in has on-going draconian emissions targets imposed by EU legislation and inflicted on sports car manufacturers with vigour. Turbo engines it had to be. Fundamentally, no way would the Cayster range ever be allowed to out-perform the 911. That was clearly illustrated with the launch of 981 GT4. Smaller throttle body, restricted engine mapping, long gearing, all made sure the Golden Goose was not usurped.

I must admit to a little degree of cynicism when I read about the forthcoming 718-6, reputed to be the new 718-6 Cayman designated the GTS. The 4.0 engine will be a de-tuned version of the 420bhp unit installed in the current 982 GT4. I will be very surprised if this car, should it ever reach UK shores, will out-perform the current 2.5 turbo 718 Cayman GTS PDK. The 2000-5000rpm torque band alone will see the 718-6 gasping in it's wake. I agree it will sound better, but for me that is not the point as a "chassis man" driver. It may well suit the 4t haters to see the 4t dumped in favour of a flat-6, but on the track and in the hills where I live, the 718 4t will always be king.

Brian

 

[carolinewoodley]

Hi Brian

Interesting discussion re flat four turbo / flat six. I'm afraid I do have to admit to buying my 981 S rather than a 718 (which seemed to be available in a similar spec for not much more money) in part because I definitely wanted the flat six, but my justification for that was that I had never owned any kind of Porsche before and so I wanted to have as my first one, a car with the "iconic" Porsche engine rather than the newer one which, however good it is, is still a departure from Porsche's tradition at least in the mid/rear engine cars. It's not the be all and end all, as you rightly say driving experience really is the key to sports cars, but I do think tradition can matter when considering the sorts of marques like Porsche which have built their reputation and history on one particular engine.

However that doesn't mean I'm a "hater" or one of those who would eschew the 718 simply on an "ideological" basis. After all I have owned sports cars with a variety of engine types and locations in my time (straight 4-mid, V8-front, straight 4-front, V8-mid and now flat 6-mid - all rear wheel drive mind!) and part of the fun of it is discovering the way they all drive [] so now I have got to own a Porsche with a flat six, it is less important to me that my next one (as I'm sure there will be one day!) *has* to have the flat six engine. I'd happily consider a 718 or, as I've said on this and other threads, I'd also be up for an electric sports car so if the iteration of the Cayman or its successor that's around when I'm next looking for a new(ish!) car was either a plug in hybrid or a pure electric car with the sort of charging time and range that would work for me, I would have no qualms in considering that too.

And as you say times are changing and emissions regs are now making it all but impossible for any manufacturer to produce sports cars with larger normally aspirated engines, so in the future I think all the manufacturers - and us buyers/drivers! - will have to put tradition behind them (or perhaps more positively, create a new tradition) when the switch to battery technology goes mainstream.

Caroline

 

[Twinfan]

Dismissing those who don't like the F4T engine as juvenile or sheep who follow the journos isn't true in all cases - I've driven 718s and I don't like them. That's my own view after spending a decent amount of time behind the wheel of them. If you don't like smaller capacity turbo engines, and/or engines with fewer cylinders, the 718 won't change your view.

There's lots of needle on both sides of the F4T and NAF6 discussion - live and let live is the way to go IMHO []

 

[ralphmusic]

I just keep my thoughts to myself

 

[jimbo761]

Thanks Brian for continuing your interesting thread on the 718 ownership experience. I for one am relieved to find a forum that actually posts credible information about the 718. There is a tremendous amount of nonsense and 'speculation' posted elsewhere, for entertainment I read this morning:

[ul][*]Porsche dealers are having to discount pre-registered 718s with 100 miles on the clock for 20% discounts. [*]Not only is the GTS being replaced by a six cylinder NA but also now so is the S model...[*]The 'unloved' 718 F4T engine will end up as the next '996'[*][Despite my last WBAC valuation being nearly 70% at 3 years old and the best of any car I've previously owned] 718 values are crashing by the day[*]And so on...[/ul]I also find it odd some people value sound over performance and handling but suspect having your account linked to your PCGB registration here rather than just allowing anyone to post nonsense anonymously without actually owning the cars probably helps matters enormously and keeps the discussions far more civilized.

Kind regards

 

[Motorhead]

Dismissing those who don't like the F4T engine as juvenile or sheep who follow the journos isn't true in all cases - I've driven 718s and I don't like them. That's my own view after spending a decent amount of time behind the wheel of them. If you don't like smaller capacity turbo engines, and/or engines with fewer cylinders, the 718 won't change your view.

There's lots of needle on both sides of the F4T and NAF6 discussion - live and let live is the way to go IMHO []

Ha! I'm well aware that quite a few Club members like yourself Dave post elsewhere, and it goes without saying that I wouldn't dream of tarring you with the "juvenile" comments brush. []

As far as I'm concerned you've always made your opinions on the F-4T 718 very clear without the need to result to some of the childish - almost vitriolic - comments that some have trotted out, which is what the poster to whom I was responding was complaining about. As someone who has neither owned nor driven a 718, like Ralph I've always chosen not to get involved in the debate and I like to think that I can view both points of view objectively. Leaving aside the n/a vs turbo characteristic debate, I know from extensive personal working experience that engine sound is an incredibly personal and emotive subject, and you're never going to get everyone, let alone a majority, to agree.

In terms of timeline and emotion I fear that this rolling debate is becoming spookily Brexit-like in form, with each side becoming increasingly entrenched, and I wonder if it will all go away when the mainstream n/a F-6 718 cars arrive?

Incidentally, I assume that there was an equally divisive debate going on in the late 1990s when the water-cooled 986 and 996 cars were introduced to replace the beloved air-cooled 911s? Was this forum actually running then? It would still have been very early days for web-based forums.

Jeff

 

[Twinfan]

Thanks Jeff - I was hoping you weren't adding me to your "list" [] I can be quite vocal about my personal dislike of the F4T engine, but I like to think I have never directed any inappropriate comments to those who do. Porsche ownership is a broad church, and personal attacks are never acceptable. To counter Brian's "Colin Chapman/chassis man" philosphy I'm more "Enzo Ferrari/engine man" - I think Enzo once said with Ferrari you buy the engine and get the chassis for free!

Getting back on topic to Brian's ownership of his S and GTS, it's clear he loves them and that's all that matters. The 718 platform is a sharp handling and fast beast that's for sure, it's just that I personally value other aspects such as looks/noise etc too. There's something for everyone in the Porsche stable and that's the great thing about the brand.

 

[Motorhead]

With your Twinfan username I've always had you down as a keen motorcyclist Dave, so I would imagine that your "Enzo Ferrari/engine man" philosophy probably stems from your love of high-revving n/a engines, but of course even Ferrari mainly went turbo years ago..! []

It has to be seen as a positive that Porsche has listened to the debate and (reportedly) will be bringing the n/a F-6 to the 718 party, especially since it's very likely to have a relatively short life in the non-GT4/Spyder cars. However, if it's to be a GTS replacement rather than an additional offering I fear that an unfortunate consequence will be a negative impact on F-4T GTS used prices. As a business you have to assume that Porsche will have looked at the positive and negative aspects of reintroducing a n/a engine to the 718 range and have concluded that in the short-term it will be worthwhile potentially alienating a number of customers.

But this thread is all about Brian's F-4T CGTS and the most important thing is that he is very happy with his car and rates it overall as the best Cayman he's owned to date, which must count for a lot.

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

Thank you Dave for your very honourable comments regarding my appraisal and subsequent reports on owning and driving my 718 CGTS PDK. I particularly appreciated your Colin Chapman/Enzo Ferrari analogy comparison. Really good! Each to our own, and as you say the Porsche stable is a broad church of opinions.

The reason I confine my comments, on any topic, to this "closed" PCGB forum is to avoid the vitriol and abuse directed at those who may hold opinions different from the majority. I occasionally contribute to the Cayman Owner's Club forum, but shun the Piston Heads forum as a contributor. My occasional visits to that particular forum have been only as a guest, and I am sometimes shocked at the personal disrespect and abuse directed at contributors who post controversial views on automotive topics contrary to the mainstream. The PCGB forum is generally more civilised and monitored by the moderators for any unsavoury personal abuse.

Long may that continue.

Brian

 

[Brian_Innes]

My 2020 touring plans are nearing completion. This will be my main holiday for the year. It's more complicated than simply booking a flight, hotel, and car hire, so it takes careful planning of accommodation, daily mileages, and POI'S en route.

So far, I've committed to attending the Goodwood festival of Speed event in July, and following-up with a tour of the west country shires. I am also attending the Castle Combe PCGB July track day as a spectator. My return journey north will be via the Severn Crossing then Wales south to north. That particular section of my tour is still under consideration. I'm looking forward to it already.

Brian

 

[PaulJ]

I just keep my thoughts to myself

Quite right too Ralph. As Shakespeare said, 'there is nothing good or bad, only thinking makes it so.' He didn't record his thoughts on the sound of F4Ts though. []

 

[Jedimaster65]

It seems Porsche have now released this ad video for the new GTS.

However, due to the PPF's it still doesn't sound quite the same as the 981.

https://youtu.be/THSh0U_66C0

 

[Brian_Innes]

Peter,

Thanks for posting the first video of the new GTS.

At long last confirmation of the 982 Cayman GTS 4.0 in the flesh. Good roads for the video, much like home territory up here.

Porsche have obviously taken heed of the negative press and social media reports on the 2.0 and 2.5 flat-4t, and decided to revert to an n/a flat-6 for the Cayster GTS models.

Am I worried about residual values? No.

Do I regret buying my 2.5t GTS? No.

Would the new 4.0 CGTS be a more satisfying drive on the roads and terrain I drive on? No.

Does the new car sound better? A moot point and matter of personal opinion.

Finally, I would wager a decent punt on my current GTS PDK being a more accomplished performer point to point on mountain roads than a similarly specced 4.0. I'll be very interested to see the performance numbers published on the 4.0 GTS. The current 2.5t GTS will still come out on top in torque and gearing figures on twisty mountain roads which provides most of my driving enjoyment. I reckon my car would smoke a 4.0 GTS on twisty tracks such as Knockhill and Oulton Park. As for touring, there's nothing about the new car that would make me want to change.

Good luck to all those who buy one.

Brian