Brian,
You will need toe control arms for that amount of rear camber if 981 is anything to go by.
You will need toe control arms for that amount of rear camber if 981 is anything to go by.
My new 982 718 Cayman S PDK
- Thread starter Brian_Innes
- Start date
Brian_Innes
Member
Ralph,
If that is the case I'm stuck with -2.0 degrees of rear negative camber. I have a feeling there is more negative camber adjustment on the 718 compared to the 981 and 987. There's bits of GT4 know-how on the rear subframe and suspension components on the 718.
I'll report back in due course.
Brian
If that is the case I'm stuck with -2.0 degrees of rear negative camber. I have a feeling there is more negative camber adjustment on the 718 compared to the 981 and 987. There's bits of GT4 know-how on the rear subframe and suspension components on the 718.
I'll report back in due course.
Brian
Brian,
I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out. The 718 Boxster Technik Service Information has rather coloured my view which says of the rear:
"The Porsche-optimized MacPherson suspension used on the 718 Boxster models is essentially the same as the suspension used on the previous model. The springs, dampers and anti-roll bars were also retuned here" Looking at the PET files, the wishbone and top mounts are the same part number (as 981CS), and the toe control arm is 981.331.045.2 v .1 so still the limited adjustment eccentric bolt/washer arrangement.
The front seems to have more change the comment is:
"The wheel carriers, wheel hubs, wheel bearings and control arms were adopted from the 911 Carrera MY12 for the 718 Boxster MY17. In addition, the springs, dampers and anti-roll bars were retuned. The increased anti-dive characteristic reduces diving at the front of the vehicle during full braking and shortens the braking distance" but I doubt that the changes allow more adjustment.
It looks like the 718 (982) benefits from chassis tuning and perhaps steering calibration, rather than significant component changes over the 981, which itself was a different platform v the 987 generation.
Keep up the exploring, all good feedback..
Ralph
I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out. The 718 Boxster Technik Service Information has rather coloured my view which says of the rear:
"The Porsche-optimized MacPherson suspension used on the 718 Boxster models is essentially the same as the suspension used on the previous model. The springs, dampers and anti-roll bars were also retuned here" Looking at the PET files, the wishbone and top mounts are the same part number (as 981CS), and the toe control arm is 981.331.045.2 v .1 so still the limited adjustment eccentric bolt/washer arrangement.
The front seems to have more change the comment is:
"The wheel carriers, wheel hubs, wheel bearings and control arms were adopted from the 911 Carrera MY12 for the 718 Boxster MY17. In addition, the springs, dampers and anti-roll bars were retuned. The increased anti-dive characteristic reduces diving at the front of the vehicle during full braking and shortens the braking distance" but I doubt that the changes allow more adjustment.
It looks like the 718 (982) benefits from chassis tuning and perhaps steering calibration, rather than significant component changes over the 981, which itself was a different platform v the 987 generation.
Keep up the exploring, all good feedback..
Ralph
Brian_Innes
Member
Ralph,
Very interesting stuff. My question is, that the text you have quoted relates to the 718 Boxster base model. My car is the 718 Cayman S with -20mm lowered Sports PASM which was not an option on earlier models. From my experience over the last 9 years of inspecting the underside of Caymans on the ramp, my 718 CS certainly looks different at the rear underside. The rear subframe is different and more than a few structural suspension components are beefed-up compared to previous models. Chassis tuning of spring rates and dampers is a given. Whatever the difference between the 981 CS and the 718 CS, all I can say is that is most definitely works.
To settle the matter, I may have the opportunity soon to compare the rear suspension and subframe of a 981 CS PDK with my own 718 CS PDK on the ramp. I shall take photos and post them on this thread for your interest. I have the opinion that the 982 718 CS is more than just a facelift of the 981 in the suspension department. The on-track performance certainly supports this view.
Brian
Very interesting stuff. My question is, that the text you have quoted relates to the 718 Boxster base model. My car is the 718 Cayman S with -20mm lowered Sports PASM which was not an option on earlier models. From my experience over the last 9 years of inspecting the underside of Caymans on the ramp, my 718 CS certainly looks different at the rear underside. The rear subframe is different and more than a few structural suspension components are beefed-up compared to previous models. Chassis tuning of spring rates and dampers is a given. Whatever the difference between the 981 CS and the 718 CS, all I can say is that is most definitely works.
To settle the matter, I may have the opportunity soon to compare the rear suspension and subframe of a 981 CS PDK with my own 718 CS PDK on the ramp. I shall take photos and post them on this thread for your interest. I have the opinion that the 982 718 CS is more than just a facelift of the 981 in the suspension department. The on-track performance certainly supports this view.
Brian
Brian,
The quotes are indeed from a document titled "718 Boxster/S (982). The part numbers are from the PET files which show different dampers and springs depending on base, PASM and SPASM specification, but no changes to the subframe, wishbone or control arms. I haven't yet found a full pdf copy of the 718 Cayman file but keep looking...
A look around underneath the two generations would be great. If possible pics with the part #s would be fantastic.
Thanks for the extra miles....
The quotes are indeed from a document titled "718 Boxster/S (982). The part numbers are from the PET files which show different dampers and springs depending on base, PASM and SPASM specification, but no changes to the subframe, wishbone or control arms. I haven't yet found a full pdf copy of the 718 Cayman file but keep looking...
A look around underneath the two generations would be great. If possible pics with the part #s would be fantastic.
Thanks for the extra miles....
Brian,
Just as an aside. Have you considered submitting a piece based upon your 718 experiences - both on your excellent Highland roads and on track - to Porsche Post to give them a wider exposure to Cayman-owning Members? I'm sure that it would be well received.
Jeff
Just as an aside. Have you considered submitting a piece based upon your 718 experiences - both on your excellent Highland roads and on track - to Porsche Post to give them a wider exposure to Cayman-owning Members? I'm sure that it would be well received.
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
Jeff,
By co-incidence my 2000 word article with supporting photos entitled "The Real 718 Cayman S" is currently being processed by the Porsche Post editing team for publication in the January edition of Porsche Post which should arrive through our letterboxes around December 20th.
It's an honest appraisal. Contrary to what some contributors to this thread may think, I'm not on an evangelical crusade trumpeting the virtues of the 718. I was also a sceptic to begin with. I took a calculated gamble in buying a well specced example which was at the top end of the price scale. Thankfully I have not been disappointed.
I'm also a realist with no entrenched opinions on Porsches, whether transaxle straight 4's, boxer 6's or flat 4 Turbos. If my 718 CS had turned out to be rubbish I would have said so, and this thread would have closed months ago.
I've gained a lot of experience with the Cayman platform over the 9 years I've owned the marque, and also sampled the delights of the GT 911's at the Porsche Sport Driving School at PEC. I'm a road tourer as well as a racer and experienced track day exponent, so I cover all bases.
I shall look forward to the feedback from my article in PP and have my tin hat at the ready for the inevitable incoming flak and derision of the naysayers.
Brian
By co-incidence my 2000 word article with supporting photos entitled "The Real 718 Cayman S" is currently being processed by the Porsche Post editing team for publication in the January edition of Porsche Post which should arrive through our letterboxes around December 20th.
It's an honest appraisal. Contrary to what some contributors to this thread may think, I'm not on an evangelical crusade trumpeting the virtues of the 718. I was also a sceptic to begin with. I took a calculated gamble in buying a well specced example which was at the top end of the price scale. Thankfully I have not been disappointed.
I'm also a realist with no entrenched opinions on Porsches, whether transaxle straight 4's, boxer 6's or flat 4 Turbos. If my 718 CS had turned out to be rubbish I would have said so, and this thread would have closed months ago.
I've gained a lot of experience with the Cayman platform over the 9 years I've owned the marque, and also sampled the delights of the GT 911's at the Porsche Sport Driving School at PEC. I'm a road tourer as well as a racer and experienced track day exponent, so I cover all bases.
I shall look forward to the feedback from my article in PP and have my tin hat at the ready for the inevitable incoming flak and derision of the naysayers.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Thanks all.
With this PP article, I've done my best to be as accurate as I can about the technical stuff, particularly the suspension differences between the 718 and its predecessor the 981. I'll probably be told pretty smartly if I've got anything wrong! In my defence, I'm not a journalist, nor a Porsche technician, just an knowledgable enthusiast who enjoys his cars.
Meantime, back on topic, my new Michelin PS4S N0 tyres are due to be fitted on December 1st. May get the geo camber and toe re-set done on the rear at the same time. The appointment at my tyre specialist is weather permitting. Been very icy with sleety snow here this week.
Brian
With this PP article, I've done my best to be as accurate as I can about the technical stuff, particularly the suspension differences between the 718 and its predecessor the 981. I'll probably be told pretty smartly if I've got anything wrong! In my defence, I'm not a journalist, nor a Porsche technician, just an knowledgable enthusiast who enjoys his cars.
Meantime, back on topic, my new Michelin PS4S N0 tyres are due to be fitted on December 1st. May get the geo camber and toe re-set done on the rear at the same time. The appointment at my tyre specialist is weather permitting. Been very icy with sleety snow here this week.
Brian
Browsing as you do and thinking about Brian's positive impressions, I looked up the SportAuto Super Test of the Cayman 718S which I show below via Google translate. A lot of positive results over 981 series.
PORSCHE 718 CAYMAN S IN SUPERTEST
Sports car with four-cylinder turbo rocks the ring
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/porsche-718-cayman-s-im-supertest-11564654.html
QUOTE
Even more than with the new look and the cool color Miamiblau excited Porsche 718 Cayman S with a single number: 18! Eighteen seconds is the mid-engine athlete on the Nordschleife faster than its direct predecessor.
15.12.2016
When the Porsche 718S Cayman storms at 8:11 pm with 230 km / h towards the kettle in the rising sun, I have finally forgotten that we really do not really like each other. Oh well, actually was already in the Hatzenbach, but at the latest at the Schwedenkreuz clear: The aversion to the new four-cylinder boxer can be justified at most subjectively. But on the Nordschleife this grudge against the supposedly banal sound of the new engine is completely in the background.
Porsche 718 Cayman S faster than Boxster Spyder
Too focused, the mid-engine athlete named internally 982 goes to work in the Supertest in the Green Hell. Actually, the number reaches 18. Legend and eighteen seconds, the Porsche 718S Cayman on the Nordschleife faster than its direct predecessor Cayman S (981c) with 315 hp 3.4-liter six-cylinder.
Instead of in 8.05 minutes completed the facelifted Cayman version of the Nordschleife now in 7.47 minutes. Respect! The lapidary at a facelift term "facelift" understates here but excessive. The 718 Cayman S is more than just a facelift with a new name. Before we go into the details of the modifications, we first enjoy the Nordschleife round.
Faster than the Porsche 981 Spyder with the 3.8-liter naturally aspirated engine it should be, the driving dynamics managers had promised in advance. Despite nominally 25 hp less power and 85 kg more weight than the purist Spyder with manual transmission manages the 350-hp 718 Cayman S this feat. Two seconds is the current 718 top model on the Nordschleife in the finish in front of the lightweight roadster.
Easy to drive in the border area
The Spyder presented itself on the Nordschleife with a somewhat diffuse driving behavior in the border area. At the limit, the rear axle reactions on the wavy runway did not go well with the directly deflecting front axle. True confidence was found on the Nordschleife, with all the emotions for this fantastic concept, never really.
Even the direct Cayman S predecessor of the 718 showed at the border a sometimes nervous, if not unsafe driving behavior. Although the 981c scored with direct steering response, responded to load changes but with a somewhat too hectic self-steering behavior.
So much for the current state of development of the Boxster and Cayman versions below the top model Cayman GT4. Change of scene into the present time. Hatzenbach, the Porsche 718 Cayman S is unrecognizable. The change curves he takes calmly and follows precisely the line that dictates his handlebars. Hectic in the rear ? Not the track. The mechanical grip could be improved compared to 981c and Boxster Spyder.
Quite as stable as the rear of the traction hero Carrera 991S is that of the 718 Cayman S but not. And, although the 718 a longer wheelbase than the penalty has ( 911 : 2,450 mm, 718 Cayman: 2,475 mm). You can still partly notice the typical body motive for body motocross concepts. A slight yawing about the vertical axis is still felt when jerking. The 718-Heck pushes but then no longer as before speedy, but lubricating tough. Or different: The Porsche 718 Cayman S remains easily manageable at the borderline on the Nordschleife at all times.
PASM sports suspension for Porsche 718 Cayman S
The PSM called ESP can not only be completely deactivated in the Porsche 718 Cayman S, it offers for the first time a PSM sports mode. In this finely tuned mode, the stabilizing control of the PSM has been reduced so far that very modest control interventions can only be felt at certain points on the Nordschleife. With "PSM Sport" you are now on the Nordschleife almost as fast on the road as with completely disabled driving aids.
The next surprise moment in a positive sense is the summit in front of the Schwedenkreuz, which is quite relaxed in the 718 Cayman S at 254 km / h. While the rear axle of the Boxster Spyder felt here under full load is catapulted by several meters, lifts the 718 only briefly and pleasantly balanced. Then he lands again full and always easy to control.
The Boxster Spyder wore a non-adjustable suspension with a tendency for the Nordschleife to hard spring-damper tuning. Since the direct predecessor of the 718 Cayman S had more to offer. On its Supertest lap (sport auto 6/2013), the Cayman S of the 981c series already used the adaptive damper control PASM. From now on, the S-model of the 718 Cayman can be ordered not only with adaptive PASM suspension (lowering 10 millimeters), but also with PASM sports suspension with 20 millimeters lowering. This sporty suspension option was previously only available on the 911 derivatives.
Juicy price by extras
Two levels of hardness ("Normal" and "Sport" modes) can also be selected with the PASM sports suspension by pressing a button. The sports mode of the PASM sports suspension has a tighter tuning than the sport mode of the normal PASM suspension. Overall, the engineers extensively revised the Cayman chassis. Thanks to modified dampers and higher stabilizer and spring rates, the whole ride looks firmer and fuller, without - and that is always the Porsche team always very important - that the comfort suffers. In addition, the rigidity of the rear axle has been increased and there are half a inch wider rear wheels used.
Of course, "our" Supertest 718 carries the new optional sports suspension (1,666 euros) on board. In addition, you will find in the list all the cross-dynamics conducive little helpers: PTV including mechanical Hinterachsquersperre (1,309 euros), Sport Chrono Package including fashion counter (2,082.50 euros), 20-inch turbo wheels (3,213 euros) - So the base price of 64,118 euros quickly rises to the test car price of 103,769 euros, juicy for a Cayman. By the way, you get the now 570 hp Nissan GT-R for 99,900 euros.
Last but not least, the new Pirelli P Zero N1 generation of tires (previously N0) contributes to the performance of the Porsche 718 Cayman S. As neutral as the 991.2 Carrera S, however, the front axle of the 718 Cayman S does not work. With flame-new tires, the balance between front and rear axle is very good. However, as the tire temperature rises, the tires on the front axle are reducing somewhat. On the Nordschleife this is easily noticeable in the narrower corners on the lap of the time at the back of the track (from Hohe Acht). Subsequently, a slight tendency to understeer is noticeable. In the 911, however, the grip level of the Pirelli tires at the border remains definitely longer constant
The 718 is 18 seconds faster than its direct predecessor 981c. Any questions?
First round in Hockenheim must fit
Especially the demanding track layout of the small course in Hockenheim, the tires of the 718 pay even faster tribute. While in the 991.2 you can comfortably lap for nearly five laps in a row, the 718 Cayman S has to pass the first timed lap. Already in the second lap of the grip level decreases noticeably and the good balance of the mid-engine sportsman moves from neutral to understeer.
Or expressed in lap times: 1.11.3 min, 1.11.8 min, 1.12.2 min. But even if the tire is only good for a really fast lap, the lap time of 1.11.3 minutes is extremely respectable. Not even ten years ago, the Porsche 997 GT3 RS Mk I drove 1.11,1 minutes. In 2010, the Japanese super sports car Lexus LFA completed the Small Course in 1.11.0 minutes.
Speaking of small course: Especially in the tight corners of Hockenheim (output crossbar, Sachskurve), but also in the driving dynamics discipline Slalom falls again on the relatively large steering angle requirements of the electromechanical steering compared to previous steering types of Porsche or from the GT department.
Subjectively, we would also like to say a little more pep about the middle register - even though the 718 already has about ten percent more direct steering ratio. The steering gear was taken from the 911 Turbo and adapted specifically to the 718th But even with the turbo, the feedback of the steering subjectively looks a bit more moderate, also seen in comparison to previous steering interpretations at Porsche. Internally, however, they are working increasingly hard at Porsche to give the electromechanical steering even more character.
What a dual-clutch gearbox!
Compared to hydraulic steering types, the electromechanical versions are generally more comfortable overall, but they also filter away the extreme feeling and feedback that a sports driver enjoys. However, the benefits of the current 718 steering design are not to be underestimated. In everyday life, especially at high speeds, even the 718 can move deep relaxation. And this Cayman is almost certainly driven by more owners and owners who will never go to the racetrack by car.
An overly hectic approach from the middle could let relaxation not so experienced pilots quickly dwindle. From a sports driver's point of view, the compromise has unfortunately triumphed towards more steering comfort. On the other hand, the Porsche 718 Cayman S on the Nordschleife can therefore be moved on the first lap with sleepwalking safety due to the unruffled nature of the steering.
The seven-speed PDK contributes to the relaxation in the border area. Before the Nordschleife excursion, simply turn the dial (four driving modes: "Normal", "Sport", "Sport Plus", "Individual") on the optional GT steering wheel, which we already know from the 991.2, to "Sport Plus", Pull the gear selector lever into gear position "D" and off you go! As perfect as the PDK automatically shuts down the gears in the limit area when braking dynamically on a bend and switches it on again at exactly the right time under full load, currently no dual-clutch transmission in the sports car segment is currently working.
Anyone who thinks that he could do it better than the transmission electronics, but may continue to dial the gears in manual mode. Analogous to the 991.2, the shift strategy of the selector lever (push forward = switch down, pull back = shift up) has been changed. The kick-down threshold at the end of the accelerator pedal is no longer found in the 718 Cayman S. For use in the mid-engined sports car, the PDK was revised (including adapted translations, other wheelset oil, new dual-mass flywheel with centrifugal pendulum, optimized full-load circuits).
Four-cylinder convinced in the Supertest objectively
While we swarm in the photo session of the beautiful 718 optics and the cool option painting in Miami, our photographer suddenly asks abruptly: "Will he eventually come with a real engine?" Paff, sorry 718, which sits, but came from the deepest Heart of a former Boxster driver.
After the 3.4-six-cylinder boxer of the 981 generation was carried to the grave, there are both 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman only with the already briefly mentioned initially four-cylinder. While the Basis-718 starts with two-liter engines, the S-model now has a 2.5-liter engine.
On the subject of emotion and sound of the aggregate, I say only one thing: If you wake me at night and would ask, from which Porsche engine I have just dreamed, it will be 1,000-percent not the new boxer four-cylinder of the 718 family. End of the discussion. However, in purely objective terms, you can not blame the new S-series, as well as the entire vehicle concept, for anything.
New opportunity for the mid-engine sports car
In terms of longitudinal dynamics, the Supertest 718 performs better than its Cayman S predecessor in the Super Test 2013 over the classic makes of 100 and 200 km / h 0.5 seconds and 2.6 seconds, respectively. That's an announcement. Also about the throttle response and the power delivery is difficult to complain. The full torque is excellent for the Cayman S for country road trips.
On the Nordschleife, the four-cylinder never seems tired on the fast lap, unless the outside temperatures rise above 30 degrees Celsius. The official round was initially scheduled for a day at 32 degrees, which was probably one of the warmest Nordschleife days of the year.
Already during the time round disillusionment is spreading: In the border area, the tires began to lubricate relatively heavily from the section Adenauer Forst. From section Breidscheid, the four-cylinder was also thermally impressed.
The subjectively noticeably decreasing engine power under extreme conditions is also recognizable on the data recording of our 2-D measuring device. 4 km / h top speed were missing in the kettle. On the Döttinger height it was even 6 km / h. More than 7.52 min. were not in the glow furnace Nordschleife. Similar to the BMW M4 GTS, however, every test subject who had to compete under such rare and extreme test conditions will get a second chance with us.
Faster than 997 Turbo and 997 GT3
The result of the Nordschleife picture book morning with 14 degrees outside temperature and sunshine is well known. The 718 Cayman S, at 7.47 minutes, is not only 18 seconds faster than the Cayman S Series 981c, it also pushes some well-known heroes off their throne. Here are some Nordschleife results from the Supertest database: Ferrari F360 Challenge Stradale (7.56 min), Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 (7.52 min), BMW M3 GTS E92 (7.49 min), Porsche 997 Turbo Mk II (7.49 min), Porsche 997 GT3 Mk I (7.48 min). Conclusion: Not bad for a four-cylinder!
Much has already been written about the sound of the new four-cylinder engine. Even with sports exhaust system (surcharge 1,951.60 euros), he is no longer what he once was in the six-cylinder boxer: emotional!
Technology Spotlight
In the Porsche 718 two new four-cylinder boxers are used after the elimination of the six-cylinder boxer engines. The base 718 carries a two-liter with 300 hp (maximum torque 380 Nm), the S model a 2.5-liter with 350 hp (maximum torque 420 Nm). The maximum speed of both engines is 7,500 revolutions. The maximum charge pressure of the two-liter is 1.4 bar, that of the 2.5-liter at 1.0 bar. The two four-cylinder engines carry different types of superchargers. In the base engine works a wastegate turbocharger. The S-engine is force-ventilated by a variable turbine geometry (VTG) loader. The VTG technology was previously reserved for the 911 Turbo. For fans of numbers here the different diameters of compressor and turbine wheel of the two four-cylinder engines: 718 two-liter: turbine wheel 50 mm, compressor wheel 58 mm; 2.5-liter engine:
Nürburgring Nordschleife
With a Nordschleife lap time of 7.47 minutes everything is actually said. For the 18 seconds ahead of its predecessor, the combination of the new and more powerful engine as well as the chassis modifications is responsible. In the border area, the 718 behaves largely neutral on the Nordschleife. A slight, medium-engine-typical yawing about the vertical axis, however, is still felt in jagged Einlenkmanövern. On load changes, the 718 reacts much tamer than its predecessor. The PCCB ceramic brake system endures the Nordschleife strain without problems.
Hockenheim-Ring Small Course
At the Hockenheim Small Course the 1.11,3 min lap time already has to be after the first fast lap. Then the very good grip level of the new Pirelli tire generation is rapidly reduced. On the following laps, the lap times will be significantly longer. In terms of grip level, the Pirelli tire on the 991.2 Carrera S showed a better consistency. Above all, the grip on the eleven front axle remained constant longer. The 718 Cayman S initially shows a largely neutral handling with a fresh set of tires. Remove the tires, the mid-engine athlete goes understeer. The ABS control has also been fine tuned to the Pirelli tires on the 718 Cayman S, though not quite as well as the 991.2 Carrera S. Here, the ABS controls in the border area even more sensitive, and you can do even better than the 718 in brake in the curve. Again and again surprising: Also in the 718 Cayman S the PDK works in the border area with high perfection. The fastest one is in the automatic mode "D" on the way.
Acceleration / braking
As usual with Porsche, the Launch Control of the PDK in the 718 also works with the precision of a Swiss movement. At speed 200, the 718 accelerates 2.6 s faster than the 981c. From 200 km / h, the 718 Cayman S stands at 135.1 m. The 981c needed 138.9 m for this braking discipline.
Acceleration 0-200 km / h:
15.0 s
Braking 200-0 km / h:
4.9 s
Wind Tunnel
The aerodynamics of the 718 Cayman S have deteriorated slightly compared to its predecessor 981c. The cW value is now 0.31 (previously 0.30). The 718 Cayman S has been boosting at 200 km / h on both axles. The lift values are slightly higher than the previous level on both axles.
Front axle at 200 km / h:
27 kg buoyancy
Rear axle at 200 km / h:
15 kg buoyancy
Lateral acceleration
In terms of lateral acceleration, there are no major differences between the 718 Cayman S and its predecessor 981c. The level remains high even without designated sports tires at 1.30 g. The new grip generation Pirelli P Zero N1 (previously N0) is responsible for the good grip level. The dimension of the tires remained identical to its predecessor.
36-meter slalom
140 km / h
With a slightly delayed steering and a lot of movement in the suspension, the Cayman oscillates neutral to slightly oversteer through the pylon lane. The new cross-model steering vote misses the direct response from the middle days of old days. With previous models, one still had the feeling to hold the tie rod head directly in the hand.
Dodge test
158 km / h
As previously in the fast slalom, the Cayman reacts slightly delayed to steering commands. If the somewhat indirect area around the middle position of the steering is overcome, the good guidance on the front and rear axle is convincing. The mid-engine athlete remains neutral for a long time until the limit is defined via the rear wheels, which announce the grip loss but without wedging pleasantly soft.
Conclusion
With all the driving dynamics enthusiasm always honestly honest: alone because of the four-cylinder sound, the Porsche 718 Cayman S would never be my dream car. In the Supertest, however, the emotion is not spotted, but the pure performance counts. Here, the 718 Cayman S has fundamentally improved. Especially the 18 seconds faster Nordschleife lap time is outstanding. Rarely has a facelift within a series made such a dynamic leap forward. The 718 Cayman S manages a very good balancing act between everyday comfort and racetrack performance. But this dynamic wants to be paid as usual at Porsche as well expensive: With 103,769 euros, the test car price is almost outrageously high.
END QUOTE
PORSCHE 718 CAYMAN S IN SUPERTEST
Sports car with four-cylinder turbo rocks the ring
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/porsche-718-cayman-s-im-supertest-11564654.html
QUOTE
Even more than with the new look and the cool color Miamiblau excited Porsche 718 Cayman S with a single number: 18! Eighteen seconds is the mid-engine athlete on the Nordschleife faster than its direct predecessor.
15.12.2016
When the Porsche 718S Cayman storms at 8:11 pm with 230 km / h towards the kettle in the rising sun, I have finally forgotten that we really do not really like each other. Oh well, actually was already in the Hatzenbach, but at the latest at the Schwedenkreuz clear: The aversion to the new four-cylinder boxer can be justified at most subjectively. But on the Nordschleife this grudge against the supposedly banal sound of the new engine is completely in the background.
Porsche 718 Cayman S faster than Boxster Spyder
Too focused, the mid-engine athlete named internally 982 goes to work in the Supertest in the Green Hell. Actually, the number reaches 18. Legend and eighteen seconds, the Porsche 718S Cayman on the Nordschleife faster than its direct predecessor Cayman S (981c) with 315 hp 3.4-liter six-cylinder.
Instead of in 8.05 minutes completed the facelifted Cayman version of the Nordschleife now in 7.47 minutes. Respect! The lapidary at a facelift term "facelift" understates here but excessive. The 718 Cayman S is more than just a facelift with a new name. Before we go into the details of the modifications, we first enjoy the Nordschleife round.
Faster than the Porsche 981 Spyder with the 3.8-liter naturally aspirated engine it should be, the driving dynamics managers had promised in advance. Despite nominally 25 hp less power and 85 kg more weight than the purist Spyder with manual transmission manages the 350-hp 718 Cayman S this feat. Two seconds is the current 718 top model on the Nordschleife in the finish in front of the lightweight roadster.
Easy to drive in the border area
The Spyder presented itself on the Nordschleife with a somewhat diffuse driving behavior in the border area. At the limit, the rear axle reactions on the wavy runway did not go well with the directly deflecting front axle. True confidence was found on the Nordschleife, with all the emotions for this fantastic concept, never really.
Even the direct Cayman S predecessor of the 718 showed at the border a sometimes nervous, if not unsafe driving behavior. Although the 981c scored with direct steering response, responded to load changes but with a somewhat too hectic self-steering behavior.
So much for the current state of development of the Boxster and Cayman versions below the top model Cayman GT4. Change of scene into the present time. Hatzenbach, the Porsche 718 Cayman S is unrecognizable. The change curves he takes calmly and follows precisely the line that dictates his handlebars. Hectic in the rear ? Not the track. The mechanical grip could be improved compared to 981c and Boxster Spyder.
Quite as stable as the rear of the traction hero Carrera 991S is that of the 718 Cayman S but not. And, although the 718 a longer wheelbase than the penalty has ( 911 : 2,450 mm, 718 Cayman: 2,475 mm). You can still partly notice the typical body motive for body motocross concepts. A slight yawing about the vertical axis is still felt when jerking. The 718-Heck pushes but then no longer as before speedy, but lubricating tough. Or different: The Porsche 718 Cayman S remains easily manageable at the borderline on the Nordschleife at all times.
PASM sports suspension for Porsche 718 Cayman S
The PSM called ESP can not only be completely deactivated in the Porsche 718 Cayman S, it offers for the first time a PSM sports mode. In this finely tuned mode, the stabilizing control of the PSM has been reduced so far that very modest control interventions can only be felt at certain points on the Nordschleife. With "PSM Sport" you are now on the Nordschleife almost as fast on the road as with completely disabled driving aids.
The next surprise moment in a positive sense is the summit in front of the Schwedenkreuz, which is quite relaxed in the 718 Cayman S at 254 km / h. While the rear axle of the Boxster Spyder felt here under full load is catapulted by several meters, lifts the 718 only briefly and pleasantly balanced. Then he lands again full and always easy to control.
The Boxster Spyder wore a non-adjustable suspension with a tendency for the Nordschleife to hard spring-damper tuning. Since the direct predecessor of the 718 Cayman S had more to offer. On its Supertest lap (sport auto 6/2013), the Cayman S of the 981c series already used the adaptive damper control PASM. From now on, the S-model of the 718 Cayman can be ordered not only with adaptive PASM suspension (lowering 10 millimeters), but also with PASM sports suspension with 20 millimeters lowering. This sporty suspension option was previously only available on the 911 derivatives.
Juicy price by extras
Two levels of hardness ("Normal" and "Sport" modes) can also be selected with the PASM sports suspension by pressing a button. The sports mode of the PASM sports suspension has a tighter tuning than the sport mode of the normal PASM suspension. Overall, the engineers extensively revised the Cayman chassis. Thanks to modified dampers and higher stabilizer and spring rates, the whole ride looks firmer and fuller, without - and that is always the Porsche team always very important - that the comfort suffers. In addition, the rigidity of the rear axle has been increased and there are half a inch wider rear wheels used.
Of course, "our" Supertest 718 carries the new optional sports suspension (1,666 euros) on board. In addition, you will find in the list all the cross-dynamics conducive little helpers: PTV including mechanical Hinterachsquersperre (1,309 euros), Sport Chrono Package including fashion counter (2,082.50 euros), 20-inch turbo wheels (3,213 euros) - So the base price of 64,118 euros quickly rises to the test car price of 103,769 euros, juicy for a Cayman. By the way, you get the now 570 hp Nissan GT-R for 99,900 euros.
Last but not least, the new Pirelli P Zero N1 generation of tires (previously N0) contributes to the performance of the Porsche 718 Cayman S. As neutral as the 991.2 Carrera S, however, the front axle of the 718 Cayman S does not work. With flame-new tires, the balance between front and rear axle is very good. However, as the tire temperature rises, the tires on the front axle are reducing somewhat. On the Nordschleife this is easily noticeable in the narrower corners on the lap of the time at the back of the track (from Hohe Acht). Subsequently, a slight tendency to understeer is noticeable. In the 911, however, the grip level of the Pirelli tires at the border remains definitely longer constant
The 718 is 18 seconds faster than its direct predecessor 981c. Any questions?
First round in Hockenheim must fit
Especially the demanding track layout of the small course in Hockenheim, the tires of the 718 pay even faster tribute. While in the 991.2 you can comfortably lap for nearly five laps in a row, the 718 Cayman S has to pass the first timed lap. Already in the second lap of the grip level decreases noticeably and the good balance of the mid-engine sportsman moves from neutral to understeer.
Or expressed in lap times: 1.11.3 min, 1.11.8 min, 1.12.2 min. But even if the tire is only good for a really fast lap, the lap time of 1.11.3 minutes is extremely respectable. Not even ten years ago, the Porsche 997 GT3 RS Mk I drove 1.11,1 minutes. In 2010, the Japanese super sports car Lexus LFA completed the Small Course in 1.11.0 minutes.
Speaking of small course: Especially in the tight corners of Hockenheim (output crossbar, Sachskurve), but also in the driving dynamics discipline Slalom falls again on the relatively large steering angle requirements of the electromechanical steering compared to previous steering types of Porsche or from the GT department.
Subjectively, we would also like to say a little more pep about the middle register - even though the 718 already has about ten percent more direct steering ratio. The steering gear was taken from the 911 Turbo and adapted specifically to the 718th But even with the turbo, the feedback of the steering subjectively looks a bit more moderate, also seen in comparison to previous steering interpretations at Porsche. Internally, however, they are working increasingly hard at Porsche to give the electromechanical steering even more character.
What a dual-clutch gearbox!
Compared to hydraulic steering types, the electromechanical versions are generally more comfortable overall, but they also filter away the extreme feeling and feedback that a sports driver enjoys. However, the benefits of the current 718 steering design are not to be underestimated. In everyday life, especially at high speeds, even the 718 can move deep relaxation. And this Cayman is almost certainly driven by more owners and owners who will never go to the racetrack by car.
An overly hectic approach from the middle could let relaxation not so experienced pilots quickly dwindle. From a sports driver's point of view, the compromise has unfortunately triumphed towards more steering comfort. On the other hand, the Porsche 718 Cayman S on the Nordschleife can therefore be moved on the first lap with sleepwalking safety due to the unruffled nature of the steering.
The seven-speed PDK contributes to the relaxation in the border area. Before the Nordschleife excursion, simply turn the dial (four driving modes: "Normal", "Sport", "Sport Plus", "Individual") on the optional GT steering wheel, which we already know from the 991.2, to "Sport Plus", Pull the gear selector lever into gear position "D" and off you go! As perfect as the PDK automatically shuts down the gears in the limit area when braking dynamically on a bend and switches it on again at exactly the right time under full load, currently no dual-clutch transmission in the sports car segment is currently working.
Anyone who thinks that he could do it better than the transmission electronics, but may continue to dial the gears in manual mode. Analogous to the 991.2, the shift strategy of the selector lever (push forward = switch down, pull back = shift up) has been changed. The kick-down threshold at the end of the accelerator pedal is no longer found in the 718 Cayman S. For use in the mid-engined sports car, the PDK was revised (including adapted translations, other wheelset oil, new dual-mass flywheel with centrifugal pendulum, optimized full-load circuits).
Four-cylinder convinced in the Supertest objectively
While we swarm in the photo session of the beautiful 718 optics and the cool option painting in Miami, our photographer suddenly asks abruptly: "Will he eventually come with a real engine?" Paff, sorry 718, which sits, but came from the deepest Heart of a former Boxster driver.
After the 3.4-six-cylinder boxer of the 981 generation was carried to the grave, there are both 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman only with the already briefly mentioned initially four-cylinder. While the Basis-718 starts with two-liter engines, the S-model now has a 2.5-liter engine.
On the subject of emotion and sound of the aggregate, I say only one thing: If you wake me at night and would ask, from which Porsche engine I have just dreamed, it will be 1,000-percent not the new boxer four-cylinder of the 718 family. End of the discussion. However, in purely objective terms, you can not blame the new S-series, as well as the entire vehicle concept, for anything.
New opportunity for the mid-engine sports car
In terms of longitudinal dynamics, the Supertest 718 performs better than its Cayman S predecessor in the Super Test 2013 over the classic makes of 100 and 200 km / h 0.5 seconds and 2.6 seconds, respectively. That's an announcement. Also about the throttle response and the power delivery is difficult to complain. The full torque is excellent for the Cayman S for country road trips.
On the Nordschleife, the four-cylinder never seems tired on the fast lap, unless the outside temperatures rise above 30 degrees Celsius. The official round was initially scheduled for a day at 32 degrees, which was probably one of the warmest Nordschleife days of the year.
Already during the time round disillusionment is spreading: In the border area, the tires began to lubricate relatively heavily from the section Adenauer Forst. From section Breidscheid, the four-cylinder was also thermally impressed.
The subjectively noticeably decreasing engine power under extreme conditions is also recognizable on the data recording of our 2-D measuring device. 4 km / h top speed were missing in the kettle. On the Döttinger height it was even 6 km / h. More than 7.52 min. were not in the glow furnace Nordschleife. Similar to the BMW M4 GTS, however, every test subject who had to compete under such rare and extreme test conditions will get a second chance with us.
Faster than 997 Turbo and 997 GT3
The result of the Nordschleife picture book morning with 14 degrees outside temperature and sunshine is well known. The 718 Cayman S, at 7.47 minutes, is not only 18 seconds faster than the Cayman S Series 981c, it also pushes some well-known heroes off their throne. Here are some Nordschleife results from the Supertest database: Ferrari F360 Challenge Stradale (7.56 min), Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 (7.52 min), BMW M3 GTS E92 (7.49 min), Porsche 997 Turbo Mk II (7.49 min), Porsche 997 GT3 Mk I (7.48 min). Conclusion: Not bad for a four-cylinder!
Much has already been written about the sound of the new four-cylinder engine. Even with sports exhaust system (surcharge 1,951.60 euros), he is no longer what he once was in the six-cylinder boxer: emotional!
Technology Spotlight
In the Porsche 718 two new four-cylinder boxers are used after the elimination of the six-cylinder boxer engines. The base 718 carries a two-liter with 300 hp (maximum torque 380 Nm), the S model a 2.5-liter with 350 hp (maximum torque 420 Nm). The maximum speed of both engines is 7,500 revolutions. The maximum charge pressure of the two-liter is 1.4 bar, that of the 2.5-liter at 1.0 bar. The two four-cylinder engines carry different types of superchargers. In the base engine works a wastegate turbocharger. The S-engine is force-ventilated by a variable turbine geometry (VTG) loader. The VTG technology was previously reserved for the 911 Turbo. For fans of numbers here the different diameters of compressor and turbine wheel of the two four-cylinder engines: 718 two-liter: turbine wheel 50 mm, compressor wheel 58 mm; 2.5-liter engine:
Nürburgring Nordschleife
With a Nordschleife lap time of 7.47 minutes everything is actually said. For the 18 seconds ahead of its predecessor, the combination of the new and more powerful engine as well as the chassis modifications is responsible. In the border area, the 718 behaves largely neutral on the Nordschleife. A slight, medium-engine-typical yawing about the vertical axis, however, is still felt in jagged Einlenkmanövern. On load changes, the 718 reacts much tamer than its predecessor. The PCCB ceramic brake system endures the Nordschleife strain without problems.
Hockenheim-Ring Small Course
At the Hockenheim Small Course the 1.11,3 min lap time already has to be after the first fast lap. Then the very good grip level of the new Pirelli tire generation is rapidly reduced. On the following laps, the lap times will be significantly longer. In terms of grip level, the Pirelli tire on the 991.2 Carrera S showed a better consistency. Above all, the grip on the eleven front axle remained constant longer. The 718 Cayman S initially shows a largely neutral handling with a fresh set of tires. Remove the tires, the mid-engine athlete goes understeer. The ABS control has also been fine tuned to the Pirelli tires on the 718 Cayman S, though not quite as well as the 991.2 Carrera S. Here, the ABS controls in the border area even more sensitive, and you can do even better than the 718 in brake in the curve. Again and again surprising: Also in the 718 Cayman S the PDK works in the border area with high perfection. The fastest one is in the automatic mode "D" on the way.
Acceleration / braking
As usual with Porsche, the Launch Control of the PDK in the 718 also works with the precision of a Swiss movement. At speed 200, the 718 accelerates 2.6 s faster than the 981c. From 200 km / h, the 718 Cayman S stands at 135.1 m. The 981c needed 138.9 m for this braking discipline.
Acceleration 0-200 km / h:
15.0 s
Braking 200-0 km / h:
4.9 s
Wind Tunnel
The aerodynamics of the 718 Cayman S have deteriorated slightly compared to its predecessor 981c. The cW value is now 0.31 (previously 0.30). The 718 Cayman S has been boosting at 200 km / h on both axles. The lift values are slightly higher than the previous level on both axles.
Front axle at 200 km / h:
27 kg buoyancy
Rear axle at 200 km / h:
15 kg buoyancy
Lateral acceleration
In terms of lateral acceleration, there are no major differences between the 718 Cayman S and its predecessor 981c. The level remains high even without designated sports tires at 1.30 g. The new grip generation Pirelli P Zero N1 (previously N0) is responsible for the good grip level. The dimension of the tires remained identical to its predecessor.
36-meter slalom
140 km / h
With a slightly delayed steering and a lot of movement in the suspension, the Cayman oscillates neutral to slightly oversteer through the pylon lane. The new cross-model steering vote misses the direct response from the middle days of old days. With previous models, one still had the feeling to hold the tie rod head directly in the hand.
Dodge test
158 km / h
As previously in the fast slalom, the Cayman reacts slightly delayed to steering commands. If the somewhat indirect area around the middle position of the steering is overcome, the good guidance on the front and rear axle is convincing. The mid-engine athlete remains neutral for a long time until the limit is defined via the rear wheels, which announce the grip loss but without wedging pleasantly soft.
Conclusion
With all the driving dynamics enthusiasm always honestly honest: alone because of the four-cylinder sound, the Porsche 718 Cayman S would never be my dream car. In the Supertest, however, the emotion is not spotted, but the pure performance counts. Here, the 718 Cayman S has fundamentally improved. Especially the 18 seconds faster Nordschleife lap time is outstanding. Rarely has a facelift within a series made such a dynamic leap forward. The 718 Cayman S manages a very good balancing act between everyday comfort and racetrack performance. But this dynamic wants to be paid as usual at Porsche as well expensive: With 103,769 euros, the test car price is almost outrageously high.
END QUOTE
Brian_Innes
Member
Crikey Ralph! That's some article!
Takes the wind out of my sails a bit for my forthcoming piece in Porsche Post next month..........
My Knockhill track test doesn't quite have the same ring about it as Hockenheim and the Nordschleife!
I have to say the conclusion to the Auto Motor und Sport article is a very fair statement imo.
I'll not be a spoiler here and say any more about my conclusions on the 718 CS.
Thanks for reproducing the above piece Ralph. I'll digest it in full over the coming week......
Brian
Takes the wind out of my sails a bit for my forthcoming piece in Porsche Post next month..........
My Knockhill track test doesn't quite have the same ring about it as Hockenheim and the Nordschleife!
I have to say the conclusion to the Auto Motor und Sport article is a very fair statement imo.
I'll not be a spoiler here and say any more about my conclusions on the 718 CS.
Thanks for reproducing the above piece Ralph. I'll digest it in full over the coming week......
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Not an easy piece to read.
The 'Allo, 'Allo comedy German does no favours to Google Translate, but through the fog of indecipherable sentences there are gems of truth in there. The Pirelli P-Zero N1 remarks are notably in concert with my own findings on the track.
As for the rest of the critical comment, I'll keep my powder dry for now. At least my article should be an easier read.
Brian
The 'Allo, 'Allo comedy German does no favours to Google Translate, but through the fog of indecipherable sentences there are gems of truth in there. The Pirelli P-Zero N1 remarks are notably in concert with my own findings on the track.
As for the rest of the critical comment, I'll keep my powder dry for now. At least my article should be an easier read.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
My new Michelin PS4S N0 tyres were fitted today.
Never before have I seen such a dramatic difference between two supposedly identical sizes and sections. Compared to my previous Pirelli P-Zero N1's, these new Michelins are a completely different looking tyre. My 718 CS has now a more aggressive new look resulting from a simple tyre change. If they perform on the track as well as they look, my 718 will be absolutely flying next year! Stock GT4's had better look out on track days when 718 CS's fitted with PS4S N0's are driven by a competent wheel-smith.
For a start, no longer is the rear 265 section looking stretched on my 10.5" wide rims as I have already stated previously on this thread. The new PS4S N0 looks wider and of a lower aspect profile compared to the P-Zero N1. This apparent difference applies to both front and rear sections which are 235 x 35 x 20 and 265 x 35 x 20 as before.
It seems both Michelin and Porsche have done considerable development on this new PS4S N0 tyre which may explain the 8 months delay in retail availability.
The tyre fitters today were so impressed with the new look of these PS4S N0 Michelins on my car, they were taking photos to show the Michelin rep next time he calls. A very positive reaction considering these guys are fitting tyres every day.
I'll report back on road performance in due course after the tyres have bedded-in.
Brian
Never before have I seen such a dramatic difference between two supposedly identical sizes and sections. Compared to my previous Pirelli P-Zero N1's, these new Michelins are a completely different looking tyre. My 718 CS has now a more aggressive new look resulting from a simple tyre change. If they perform on the track as well as they look, my 718 will be absolutely flying next year! Stock GT4's had better look out on track days when 718 CS's fitted with PS4S N0's are driven by a competent wheel-smith.
For a start, no longer is the rear 265 section looking stretched on my 10.5" wide rims as I have already stated previously on this thread. The new PS4S N0 looks wider and of a lower aspect profile compared to the P-Zero N1. This apparent difference applies to both front and rear sections which are 235 x 35 x 20 and 265 x 35 x 20 as before.
It seems both Michelin and Porsche have done considerable development on this new PS4S N0 tyre which may explain the 8 months delay in retail availability.
The tyre fitters today were so impressed with the new look of these PS4S N0 Michelins on my car, they were taking photos to show the Michelin rep next time he calls. A very positive reaction considering these guys are fitting tyres every day.
I'll report back on road performance in due course after the tyres have bedded-in.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Photos showing the rear 265 section PS4S N0 on my 10.5" rim. Note the overlap of the rim protection ridge compared to the P-Zero N1.
Brian
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Same rim, P-Zero N1 tyre. Note the stretched look.
Brian
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Having inspected Kevin's PS4S tyres on his Cayman R at Oulton Park recently, my PS4S N0's look entirely different.
Below a photo of the label from the rear tyre.
Brian
Below a photo of the label from the rear tyre.
Brian
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