Brian_Innes
Member
Re the previous photo of the non-N rated PS4S.
For convenience, I have re-posted the photo of the PS4S N0 tyres on my 718.
Brian
For convenience, I have re-posted the photo of the PS4S N0 tyres on my 718.
Brian
My new 982 718 Cayman S PDK
- Thread starter Brian_Innes
- Start date
Brian_Innes
Member
This is my 718 front 235 x 35 x 20. Rims are 8.5" wide.
A noticeable difference in sidewall profile on the N0 compared to the non-N rated.
Brian
A noticeable difference in sidewall profile on the N0 compared to the non-N rated.
Brian
Fudgie
New member
Nice article in the Porsche Post Brian, I’m sure it raised a few eye brows in certain quarters... Any how it’s reminded me that I haven’t posted an update on mine for a while, I’ve had it a year on the 29th & I’m knocking on the 15k door, the time & miles fly! It’s been an interesting year with a few ups & down, the cars due back at my OPC on 8th Jan for a 4 day ‘investigation‘ into a turbo pressure problem & recall soft update for the nav / connect thingy. Will do a more in-depth report of my year in a base 718 after its visit to OPC...
Brian_Innes
Member
It's 12 months last week since I collected my individual spec 718 CS PDK from OPC Aberdeen with 12 miles on the clock.
During the subsequent 10k miles I have had no mechanical, electrical, electronic, or engine cooling issues whatsoever. Oil consumption is zero, with no oil top-ups necessary between oil changes. It was my choice to change the oil and filter at 6k miles following the initial running-in period. I have a replacement air filter ready to fit early in the new year, and brake pads will also be replaced before the track day season commences. Average fuel economy is consistently around the 28mpg mark. I consider this perfectly acceptable bearing in mind the predominately rural Highland roads my car is driven on, plus the fact that I choose Sport mode most of the time and shift the gears manually as if I were driving a manual. That's just my way. Similarly, I decided to replace the Pirelli P-Zero N1's with Michelin PS4S N0's at 10k miles. Although only 500 miles have been on the track, with the remainder being on tours of some of the best driver's roads in the UK. The Pirellis are not my preferred choice of rubber on a car so dynamically accomplished as this 718 clearly is.
Over time I have become used to the flat-4 turbo acoustics. Of course it's not as creamy and sonorous a sound as the flat-6, but the instant throttle response in manual mode and wide torque band of the new engine, makes the 718 a pure pleasure to drive on roads that follow the contours of the land. The largely flat, boring motorways and dual carriageways of the south lands are a very different story. On my long tours south to motorway-land, it's the only time that I am aware of the droning exhaust note. Touring in convoy with heavy traffic and variable speed limits is not what the 718 is best designed for.
The 4 years and 30k miles I covered in my previous Cayman R manual, was the best I have ever experienced up to that time in my life. The CR is, and always will be, a pure driver's machine, particularly in manual form. It's a classic already.
From a very tentative and apprehensive introduction to this controversial new Cayman, over time I have grown to like it immensely. For me, it's a very good car indeed. In my experience, for the type of driving I do, the 718 CS PDK is an extremely accomplished driving machine on the track, and a comfortable and relaxed tourer on winding public roads.
On motorways I just turn up the music .........
My plans are to continue touring and track driving my 718 CS into 2018, whilst keeping an eye on where Porsche takes the flat-4 turbo from here.
Lastly, may I take this opportunity to convey my very best wishes for a healthy, safe, and successful 2018, to all who have taken the time to contribute to this thread. At the outset I never imagined the post would last this long. Although many contributors may not agree with my opinions on the controversial 718 Cayman, we all love driving our Porsches whatever the cylinder count of the engine or the manner of shifting the cogs.
Brian
During the subsequent 10k miles I have had no mechanical, electrical, electronic, or engine cooling issues whatsoever. Oil consumption is zero, with no oil top-ups necessary between oil changes. It was my choice to change the oil and filter at 6k miles following the initial running-in period. I have a replacement air filter ready to fit early in the new year, and brake pads will also be replaced before the track day season commences. Average fuel economy is consistently around the 28mpg mark. I consider this perfectly acceptable bearing in mind the predominately rural Highland roads my car is driven on, plus the fact that I choose Sport mode most of the time and shift the gears manually as if I were driving a manual. That's just my way. Similarly, I decided to replace the Pirelli P-Zero N1's with Michelin PS4S N0's at 10k miles. Although only 500 miles have been on the track, with the remainder being on tours of some of the best driver's roads in the UK. The Pirellis are not my preferred choice of rubber on a car so dynamically accomplished as this 718 clearly is.
Over time I have become used to the flat-4 turbo acoustics. Of course it's not as creamy and sonorous a sound as the flat-6, but the instant throttle response in manual mode and wide torque band of the new engine, makes the 718 a pure pleasure to drive on roads that follow the contours of the land. The largely flat, boring motorways and dual carriageways of the south lands are a very different story. On my long tours south to motorway-land, it's the only time that I am aware of the droning exhaust note. Touring in convoy with heavy traffic and variable speed limits is not what the 718 is best designed for.
The 4 years and 30k miles I covered in my previous Cayman R manual, was the best I have ever experienced up to that time in my life. The CR is, and always will be, a pure driver's machine, particularly in manual form. It's a classic already.
From a very tentative and apprehensive introduction to this controversial new Cayman, over time I have grown to like it immensely. For me, it's a very good car indeed. In my experience, for the type of driving I do, the 718 CS PDK is an extremely accomplished driving machine on the track, and a comfortable and relaxed tourer on winding public roads.
On motorways I just turn up the music .........
My plans are to continue touring and track driving my 718 CS into 2018, whilst keeping an eye on where Porsche takes the flat-4 turbo from here.
Lastly, may I take this opportunity to convey my very best wishes for a healthy, safe, and successful 2018, to all who have taken the time to contribute to this thread. At the outset I never imagined the post would last this long. Although many contributors may not agree with my opinions on the controversial 718 Cayman, we all love driving our Porsches whatever the cylinder count of the engine or the manner of shifting the cogs.
Brian
The Cayman R is a classic for sure, last of the real feel cars imo.
People love the 981 like you love the 718, I could not have a 981 normal Porsche or the 718, I never got on with the feel of the 981, and the 718 ,well after a Cayman R and GT4 would I really buy a 718 !
Porsche don't make bad cars, they are all great and every new car is faster with a better chassis, but do the last 2 point matter ?
you never got people moaning about a 964 chassis back in the day or lap times and nor do people now who own those cars, but the R would kill a 964.
As you staed in that one line "The CR is, and always will be, a pure driver's machine, particularly in manual form"
you missed that out in the PCGB review :-( and talked more about lap performance and how much better the 718 is than the R but then ended with "by being simply easier to drive quickly"
and that's another key point easier :-(
Nice review but I think you talked the R down too much for it's performance and dynamics over what a manual R really offers the driver ie a purer driving machine.
People love the 981 like you love the 718, I could not have a 981 normal Porsche or the 718, I never got on with the feel of the 981, and the 718 ,well after a Cayman R and GT4 would I really buy a 718 !
Porsche don't make bad cars, they are all great and every new car is faster with a better chassis, but do the last 2 point matter ?
you never got people moaning about a 964 chassis back in the day or lap times and nor do people now who own those cars, but the R would kill a 964.
As you staed in that one line "The CR is, and always will be, a pure driver's machine, particularly in manual form"
you missed that out in the PCGB review :-( and talked more about lap performance and how much better the 718 is than the R but then ended with "by being simply easier to drive quickly"
and that's another key point easier :-(
Nice review but I think you talked the R down too much for it's performance and dynamics over what a manual R really offers the driver ie a purer driving machine.
Nice interesting write up but I think I will stick with my CR for now over a 718 for another year not sure where to go after the R goes it's one of the best drivers cars I have owned and I have had a few Porsches.
I just don't see anything in my budget that comes close.
I just don't see anything in my budget that comes close.
Brian_Innes
Member
All points noted. Thanks guys.
David, I didn't omit the comment about the CR being the best pure driver's car. The PP editing team cut out large sections of my article for reasons of space. If you ever submit a piece for publication in a national mag you will have the same experience. The editing team decide on the final content.
One final thing, the principal reasoning behind my PP article, and indeed this thread, is not to try and convince others to buy a 718 CS PDK. I am not a 718 evangelist despite what some may think. The comments I contribute are based on my personal experiences and knowledge of the car from a motorsport perspective. I wouldn't expect anyone to trade in their GT4, or any other Porsche for that matter, for a 718 Cayman. This car suits me just fine at this twilight period of my driving career. I have no shame in stating my 718 is easier to drive quickly. I need all the help I can get from the chassis tuners, and I can always switch off the PSM when the mood takes me. When some younger Porsche owners get to 70, perhaps a different view of performance driving will prevail. Life is a journey of evolution I have found.
Happy New Year!
Brian
David, I didn't omit the comment about the CR being the best pure driver's car. The PP editing team cut out large sections of my article for reasons of space. If you ever submit a piece for publication in a national mag you will have the same experience. The editing team decide on the final content.
One final thing, the principal reasoning behind my PP article, and indeed this thread, is not to try and convince others to buy a 718 CS PDK. I am not a 718 evangelist despite what some may think. The comments I contribute are based on my personal experiences and knowledge of the car from a motorsport perspective. I wouldn't expect anyone to trade in their GT4, or any other Porsche for that matter, for a 718 Cayman. This car suits me just fine at this twilight period of my driving career. I have no shame in stating my 718 is easier to drive quickly. I need all the help I can get from the chassis tuners, and I can always switch off the PSM when the mood takes me. When some younger Porsche owners get to 70, perhaps a different view of performance driving will prevail. Life is a journey of evolution I have found.
Happy New Year!
Brian
yep for sure I'll go PDk and turbo, I doubt we will have a choice , my dad is 89 though and drives a manual non turbo car still 
shame the PCGB got edited as it looked liked a 718 advert with no R pro's where as the R has a great following as a new ish car but with that extra bit of realness about it.
I still class it as one of my fav cars of all time. (hence having owned 2 of them)
I have to sell my 2nd R to fund the GT3 so I will miss the R , but I am keeping the 987.2 Spyder for as long as possible.
GT4's now gone, the R is about to go, sad times for my love of Caymans, been in them from 2005 and had 4 Caymans to date.
I really hope I can take a car on track at 70, health is worth more than any gearbox choice but at least GT clutch's are as light as they have ever been, so another manual NA engine car is arriving for me in March and that's quite exciting.
happy new year to every one
shame the PCGB got edited as it looked liked a 718 advert with no R pro's where as the R has a great following as a new ish car but with that extra bit of realness about it.
I still class it as one of my fav cars of all time. (hence having owned 2 of them)
I have to sell my 2nd R to fund the GT3 so I will miss the R , but I am keeping the 987.2 Spyder for as long as possible.
GT4's now gone, the R is about to go, sad times for my love of Caymans, been in them from 2005 and had 4 Caymans to date.
I really hope I can take a car on track at 70, health is worth more than any gearbox choice but at least GT clutch's are as light as they have ever been, so another manual NA engine car is arriving for me in March and that's quite exciting.
happy new year to every one
Brian_Innes
Member
David,
My PP article was certainly not intended as a 718 advert. People who know me, know I am passionate about my cars and love driving them on road and track. Hopefully, I shall still be up for a few more track day miles in 2018. The race pace of my younger days has now gone, but I can still pedal the Cayman along on track days at a fair click. The new PS4S N0's will assist with that in 2018.
In 2017 I have enjoyed meeting a few of the contributors to this thread at Anglesey, Knockhill, and Oulton Park. I shall look forward to meeting up again in 2018. I can really recommend Knockhill as a fun day out on a technically challenging circuit. I shall be delighted to provide guidance and tips on the quick groove round the blind dips and crests of Knockhill.
Great to hear you are soon to get the 991.2 GT3. A wondrous driving machine. Keep the pithy comments coming on the Cayman thread though.
Brian
My PP article was certainly not intended as a 718 advert. People who know me, know I am passionate about my cars and love driving them on road and track. Hopefully, I shall still be up for a few more track day miles in 2018. The race pace of my younger days has now gone, but I can still pedal the Cayman along on track days at a fair click. The new PS4S N0's will assist with that in 2018.
In 2017 I have enjoyed meeting a few of the contributors to this thread at Anglesey, Knockhill, and Oulton Park. I shall look forward to meeting up again in 2018. I can really recommend Knockhill as a fun day out on a technically challenging circuit. I shall be delighted to provide guidance and tips on the quick groove round the blind dips and crests of Knockhill.
Great to hear you are soon to get the 991.2 GT3. A wondrous driving machine. Keep the pithy comments coming on the Cayman thread though.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
It's been a long, freezing cold, and very icy winter up here in the Highlands. I'm missing driving my 718 CS. It's been 6 weeks now since my last drive following the fitting of my 20" PS4S N0 tyres. My Abarth Competizione has done a great job over the last 6 weeks on its winter tyres.
Now that the snow has gone and the ice has melted, first job on the agenda is a full geo set check and adjust. While my car is up on the ramp, I'll take close-up photos of the underside suspension components and mounting points to compare with those take recently of a 981 Cayman S PDK. I'll post the results on this thread later.
It will be interesting to see the differences between the 981 and the 718 in the suspension department. Already apparent is a greater degree of alignment adjustment on the 718 compared to the 981 at both the front and rear. Currently I'm getting -1.27" degrees of negative camber on the front axles of my 718. My car has the 20mm lower PASM which may contribute to this extra negative adjustment. For interest, I'll also be reporting back on the maximum attainable negative camber on the rear axle during the geo setting. Be interesting to see if a wider range of negative camber adjustment is also available at the rear.
More on this later.
Brian
Now that the snow has gone and the ice has melted, first job on the agenda is a full geo set check and adjust. While my car is up on the ramp, I'll take close-up photos of the underside suspension components and mounting points to compare with those take recently of a 981 Cayman S PDK. I'll post the results on this thread later.
It will be interesting to see the differences between the 981 and the 718 in the suspension department. Already apparent is a greater degree of alignment adjustment on the 718 compared to the 981 at both the front and rear. Currently I'm getting -1.27" degrees of negative camber on the front axles of my 718. My car has the 20mm lower PASM which may contribute to this extra negative adjustment. For interest, I'll also be reporting back on the maximum attainable negative camber on the rear axle during the geo setting. Be interesting to see if a wider range of negative camber adjustment is also available at the rear.
Brian
Very interesting read Brian and nice to hear you are still loving your 718 S.
You replied to my tyre thread earlier in the week (thanks) and I see your point entirely with the different sidewall construction of the Michelin N0 vs the Pirelli.
I've gone for the Michelin N2 PS2s on my 19" Boxster wheels having previously had the luxury of the large rim protector of the Bridgestone RE050A N0's
I've seen the Continental (non N rated) are 'stretched' over the 235 profile wheels, similar to the Pirellis you pictured.
I'm hoping that my PS2's will be here and fitted at the weekend.
Unfortunately I won't have the beautiful highland roads to try them out on, but a drive in to the Lincolnshire Wolds may be in order before my Yorkshire Dales road trip
You replied to my tyre thread earlier in the week (thanks) and I see your point entirely with the different sidewall construction of the Michelin N0 vs the Pirelli.
I've gone for the Michelin N2 PS2s on my 19" Boxster wheels having previously had the luxury of the large rim protector of the Bridgestone RE050A N0's
I've seen the Continental (non N rated) are 'stretched' over the 235 profile wheels, similar to the Pirellis you pictured.
I'm hoping that my PS2's will be here and fitted at the weekend.
Unfortunately I won't have the beautiful highland roads to try them out on, but a drive in to the Lincolnshire Wolds may be in order before my Yorkshire Dales road trip
Brian_Innes
Member
David,
My comment was based upon observing the adjustment range on a friend's 981 Cayman S. Suspension spec and wheels on individual cars cause variances in settings, I know that only too well from long experience. Your car, like mine, has a good range of adjustment on the front camber with -1.27" degrees of negative. The 981 CS I am referring to fell short of -1.0" of negative camber on the front.
My point is, that when I have my 718 on the geo ramp I will be able to confirm the range of adjustment at the rear in direct comparison with the 981 CS on the same rig.
If the adjustment range is similar to the 987 and 981 I will say so. Likewise, if the adjustment range is significantly greater on the 718 I shall report that too. I try to be fair.
The comparison photos of the front and rear suspension of the 981 and 982 should also be interesting.
Brian
My comment was based upon observing the adjustment range on a friend's 981 Cayman S. Suspension spec and wheels on individual cars cause variances in settings, I know that only too well from long experience. Your car, like mine, has a good range of adjustment on the front camber with -1.27" degrees of negative. The 981 CS I am referring to fell short of -1.0" of negative camber on the front.
My point is, that when I have my 718 on the geo ramp I will be able to confirm the range of adjustment at the rear in direct comparison with the 981 CS on the same rig.
If the adjustment range is similar to the 987 and 981 I will say so. Likewise, if the adjustment range is significantly greater on the 718 I shall report that too. I try to be fair.
The comparison photos of the front and rear suspension of the 981 and 982 should also be interesting.
Brian
You're missing the point I'm making Brian. You're only comparing two cars, so it's not much of a sample. As my car proves, all 981s are not the same at the front. Mine was set up on a Hunter DSP600 for reference.
The 718/981 rear adjustment may differ due to the different engine setups but with only a one car sample of each you won't know for sure unless it's wildly different.
While interesting as a single observation, the comparison of your 718 vs the 981 you refer to cannot be extrapolated to compare adjustments for the entire 718 and 981/987 series (which is how your posts read). All you'll be able to say is that your 718 differs to the 981/987 you've compared it to.
The 718/981 rear adjustment may differ due to the different engine setups but with only a one car sample of each you won't know for sure unless it's wildly different.
While interesting as a single observation, the comparison of your 718 vs the 981 you refer to cannot be extrapolated to compare adjustments for the entire 718 and 981/987 series (which is how your posts read). All you'll be able to say is that your 718 differs to the 981/987 you've compared it to.
I for one am interested in what Brian finds by comparing actual cars v my looking at PET diagrams.
Looking at the PET files, the parts are mostly common but the 718 has an extra cross piece (Transverse Strut #982 505 475 00) but from the diagram it is not clear what function this serves. The fellows on rennlist have been fitting this to 981 series cars but with little "non-butt" data on its effect.
In amongst all my suspension modifications I have fitted the rear GT4 cross member (replaces #981 331 071 10) which is a cast part rather than sheet metal. It's difficult to say what difference this would make as a single change inasmuch as it was part of a fairly complete suspension system replacement.
When I had just standard (PASM) suspension the maximum values that were achieved were -1:02 Front and -1:35 Rear, with 0:00 and +0:20 total toe, respectively.
After fitting Powerflex camber and castor adjustable parts to the front I was able to get a further -0:60 camber.
My take on all this (based on conversations with Centre and specialist staff) is that individual cars have small differences but that these are tiny compared with the accuracy of the setup table, calibration of equipment and above all the technician doing the job.
Looking at the PET files, the parts are mostly common but the 718 has an extra cross piece (Transverse Strut #982 505 475 00) but from the diagram it is not clear what function this serves. The fellows on rennlist have been fitting this to 981 series cars but with little "non-butt" data on its effect.
In amongst all my suspension modifications I have fitted the rear GT4 cross member (replaces #981 331 071 10) which is a cast part rather than sheet metal. It's difficult to say what difference this would make as a single change inasmuch as it was part of a fairly complete suspension system replacement.
When I had just standard (PASM) suspension the maximum values that were achieved were -1:02 Front and -1:35 Rear, with 0:00 and +0:20 total toe, respectively.
After fitting Powerflex camber and castor adjustable parts to the front I was able to get a further -0:60 camber.
My take on all this (based on conversations with Centre and specialist staff) is that individual cars have small differences but that these are tiny compared with the accuracy of the setup table, calibration of equipment and above all the technician doing the job.
Interesting stuff Ralph. You have an S, correct? Your numbers are more similar to the S Brian has observed than my GTS. I'd be surprised if GTSs had more adjustment so it's probably just car by car variation.
Given the similarity of parts you've observed via PET I'm guessing you wouldn't expect the 718 to have more adjustment than a 981?
Given the similarity of parts you've observed via PET I'm guessing you wouldn't expect the 718 to have more adjustment than a 981?
Twinfan said:
As stated I am interested to hear what Brian finds.... I compared my S to a GT4 on an adjacent ramp and noted differences, checked the PET files, bought some GT4 parts, some worked others some didn't. Brian will provide useful observations and interpretation.
A 981 S and GTS have the same suspension architecture and parts, with differences being down to which suspension option (ride height) is selected - beyond that it is in the lap of the set up guy and his equipment. I have seen widely varying results on my car (1:30 v 1:57 camber) when using different people so I take suspension settings with a pinch of salt unless I understand who did what.
I now travel 200 miles to Centre Gravity to maintain my suspension and settings, and share mapping of the programmable suspension controller I am now running.
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