My new 982 718 Cayman S PDK
- Thread starter Brian_Innes
- Start date
Brian_Innes
Member
Chris,
My understanding is that the reason for the 4516 manufacture date on my PS4S N0 tyres is that Porsche delayed the availability of these tyres by more than 9 months.
The PS4S N0 was originally intended for the launch of the new 718 Cayman in 2016 but for reasons unknown, Porsche decided to put the application of these new tyres on hold.
I would suspect, that the dramatic difference in profile compared to the Pirelli P-Zero N1, which was the tyre Porsche chose to fit on all 718 Caymans in 2016, gave Porsche second thoughts about fitting them as OE tyres from the factory.
I understand from conversations with Michelin staff, that Porsche carried out further extensive testing on the PS4S N0 before releasing them as Porsche approved tyres. The PS4S N0 was originally intended as a 718 Cayman factory fitted tyre.
Brian
My understanding is that the reason for the 4516 manufacture date on my PS4S N0 tyres is that Porsche delayed the availability of these tyres by more than 9 months.
The PS4S N0 was originally intended for the launch of the new 718 Cayman in 2016 but for reasons unknown, Porsche decided to put the application of these new tyres on hold.
I would suspect, that the dramatic difference in profile compared to the Pirelli P-Zero N1, which was the tyre Porsche chose to fit on all 718 Caymans in 2016, gave Porsche second thoughts about fitting them as OE tyres from the factory.
I understand from conversations with Michelin staff, that Porsche carried out further extensive testing on the PS4S N0 before releasing them as Porsche approved tyres. The PS4S N0 was originally intended as a 718 Cayman factory fitted tyre.
Brian
Brian, how exciting 
As you know I love the Cayman "mid engined" chassis and found it a very faithful friend on the kick plate at the Porsche experience Centre ...
For those who are incline to watch ... I've enclosed a link to my wet testing at Donnington in the rather modified Cayman S in which I competed in the Porsche Club Championship ... on Pirelli wets ...
It happened to be a normal track day and I got caught out in the end !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I
As you know I love the Cayman "mid engined" chassis and found it a very faithful friend on the kick plate at the Porsche experience Centre ...
For those who are incline to watch ... I've enclosed a link to my wet testing at Donnington in the rather modified Cayman S in which I competed in the Porsche Club Championship ... on Pirelli wets ...
It happened to be a normal track day and I got caught out in the end !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I
Brian_Innes
Member
Nice smooth, committed driving in atrocious conditions Chris. No shame at all in losing it when hitting that river of water at Craner Curves.
Nothing to hit there either!
A PCGB Donnington track day is on my list for 2018 if I am up for it........with better weather hopefully!
Brian
Nothing to hit there either!
A PCGB Donnington track day is on my list for 2018 if I am up for it........with better weather hopefully!
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Had a nice drive to the Cairngorm National Park today to bed-in my new PS4S N0 tyres.
Damp roads and busy Sunday tourist traffic pretty much ruled out testing the new tyres properly, but compared to my previous P-Zero N1's, the Michelin's seem quieter on the winding rural roads, and I would say provide a sharper steering response even at around legal speed limit pace. I'll not know the PS4S N0's full performance capabilities until my next track day, but so far I'm delighted with them. Particularly the wider profile look on my 8.5" and 10.5" alloys.
My suspicion is, that when Michelin first presented the new PS4S N0 tyres to Porsche in 2016 for signing off on the new 718, the development boffins took one look at the new profile and thought, "hang on, these tyres look very racy, let's do some further testing before we fit them as OE tyres on the 718 at the factory". Just my speculation of course, but it was odd that Porsche delayed the fitment of the PS4S N0 for more than 9 months.
Another close-up photo later.
Brian
Damp roads and busy Sunday tourist traffic pretty much ruled out testing the new tyres properly, but compared to my previous P-Zero N1's, the Michelin's seem quieter on the winding rural roads, and I would say provide a sharper steering response even at around legal speed limit pace. I'll not know the PS4S N0's full performance capabilities until my next track day, but so far I'm delighted with them. Particularly the wider profile look on my 8.5" and 10.5" alloys.
My suspicion is, that when Michelin first presented the new PS4S N0 tyres to Porsche in 2016 for signing off on the new 718, the development boffins took one look at the new profile and thought, "hang on, these tyres look very racy, let's do some further testing before we fit them as OE tyres on the 718 at the factory". Just my speculation of course, but it was odd that Porsche delayed the fitment of the PS4S N0 for more than 9 months.
Another close-up photo later.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
A close-up view of the new Michelin PS4S N0.
The fronts were manufactured in week 45 of 2016. The rears were manufactured in week 38 of 2017. Did Porsche request a rethink on the rear profiles, thus delaying the manufacture by almost a whole year? We'll never know the real reason for the delay, but the important thing is the N0 PS4S are here now and they are feeling great and looking good.
Brian
The fronts were manufactured in week 45 of 2016. The rears were manufactured in week 38 of 2017. Did Porsche request a rethink on the rear profiles, thus delaying the manufacture by almost a whole year? We'll never know the real reason for the delay, but the important thing is the N0 PS4S are here now and they are feeling great and looking good.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
David,
Yes. PS4S N0 are rated extra load, see the tyre label I posted in the previous page on this thread.
P-Zero N1 were rated standard load.
I am expecting the seconds to come tumbling off at my next track day. My 718 CS PDK is already stock GT4 quick. I have the vids to prove it.
The new Cayman 718 CR, if it materialises, will be a stunning track machine and a 911 GT3 pest.
Brian
Yes. PS4S N0 are rated extra load, see the tyre label I posted in the previous page on this thread.
P-Zero N1 were rated standard load.
I am expecting the seconds to come tumbling off at my next track day. My 718 CS PDK is already stock GT4 quick. I have the vids to prove it.
The new Cayman 718 CR, if it materialises, will be a stunning track machine and a 911 GT3 pest.
Brian
As we all know lap times = Driver 1st, then car set up camber limitations and grip all of which the GT4 has in spades over a 718.
I can post vids of me in a 320BHp car vs a 997.2 GT3RS does not mean my Spyder is faster
GT4 laps faster, all there is to it (buts it's dam close now), although one has to be a good pilot to make up for PDK and lower Torque the 718 has.
The thing is a lot of people cannot drive the GT4 fast enough, people say it's easy to drive, It's NOT, it's easy to drive at 85% but to drive at 100% is not easy.
This is where Torque, PDK, PTV etc comes into fast lap times for novice drivers esp vs the same standard of driver in a GT4 which you have to work for.
I would say then any PDK car even a standard 981 can lap faster than the same skilled driver in a GT4.
Any way load rating is odd, why they would change, hence again why N spec is out the window for me, how can 2 tyres be made for the car but have different load ratings !
I have found the PS4S to be a tad hard and have to run them 2 psi lower, the MPSS was a nicer dry tyre on the R for me (slighty lower load rating), although the PS4S is the far better wet tyre.
I can post vids of me in a 320BHp car vs a 997.2 GT3RS does not mean my Spyder is faster
GT4 laps faster, all there is to it (buts it's dam close now), although one has to be a good pilot to make up for PDK and lower Torque the 718 has.
The thing is a lot of people cannot drive the GT4 fast enough, people say it's easy to drive, It's NOT, it's easy to drive at 85% but to drive at 100% is not easy.
This is where Torque, PDK, PTV etc comes into fast lap times for novice drivers esp vs the same standard of driver in a GT4 which you have to work for.
I would say then any PDK car even a standard 981 can lap faster than the same skilled driver in a GT4.
Any way load rating is odd, why they would change, hence again why N spec is out the window for me, how can 2 tyres be made for the car but have different load ratings !
I have found the PS4S to be a tad hard and have to run them 2 psi lower, the MPSS was a nicer dry tyre on the R for me (slighty lower load rating), although the PS4S is the far better wet tyre.
Brian_Innes
Member
David,
I am grateful for your recognition that the 718 CS PDK is close to the GT4 on the track. I completely concur with your opinions on the driver element. This factor I am constantly aware of on the track days I attend as an entrant. I have extensive track and motorsport experience as you already know, and have won many awards and podiums in my racing life when pitched up against other skilled drivers. Experience counts, which is why my 718 is a busy machine on track days. The new version of PDK for me, still provides driver involvement with the added satisfaction of full throttle upshifts and gear shifting whilst on long, fast corners without taking a hand off the steering wheel, which is vital for me.
Finally may I say, even at this twilight stage in my driving life, I am delighted to report I still retain the driving skills from yesteryear and it gives me enormous pleasure to match, and sometimes exceed the pace of supposedly faster cars, and much younger drivers than I.
I am hoping I can continue to enjoy my fun motorsport with my 718 CS PDK in 2018. My new PS4S N0 tyres will be another step forward in driving enjoyment.....and pace.
Brian
I am grateful for your recognition that the 718 CS PDK is close to the GT4 on the track. I completely concur with your opinions on the driver element. This factor I am constantly aware of on the track days I attend as an entrant. I have extensive track and motorsport experience as you already know, and have won many awards and podiums in my racing life when pitched up against other skilled drivers. Experience counts, which is why my 718 is a busy machine on track days. The new version of PDK for me, still provides driver involvement with the added satisfaction of full throttle upshifts and gear shifting whilst on long, fast corners without taking a hand off the steering wheel, which is vital for me.
Finally may I say, even at this twilight stage in my driving life, I am delighted to report I still retain the driving skills from yesteryear and it gives me enormous pleasure to match, and sometimes exceed the pace of supposedly faster cars, and much younger drivers than I.
I am hoping I can continue to enjoy my fun motorsport with my 718 CS PDK in 2018. My new PS4S N0 tyres will be another step forward in driving enjoyment.....and pace.
Brian
Blink982
New member
I've just picked up my base 718 and was disappointed to see that it was shod with pirellis, particularly as I had noticed a lot of US owners were picking theirs up with Michelins. The lack of rim protection is a concern.
Are the Michelins any better when cold and manoeuvring at low speeds?
Are the Michelins any better when cold and manoeuvring at low speeds?
Brian_Innes
Member
I would also be disappointed to see my new 718 shod with Pirellis. Michelin PS4S N0 have been factory fitted since November 2017 builds I understand. You may either have just missed the cut, or there was a Michelin supply problem on your build slot.
I can't comment on the cold and manoeuvring performance of the PS4S N0, other than they run slightly quieter than the Pirellis and the steering response is even sharper. Regarding tyre pressures, I'm running all four corners at 2.3 Bar.
When I rack up more miles on Highland roads over the winter, weather permitting, I shall post more comment. So far I'm delighted with the Michelins. It's the track performance I am looking forward to appraising in 2018. That will an interesting comparison for me.
Good to hear you made the choice to go for a 718 Cayman. Enjoy!
Brian
I can't comment on the cold and manoeuvring performance of the PS4S N0, other than they run slightly quieter than the Pirellis and the steering response is even sharper. Regarding tyre pressures, I'm running all four corners at 2.3 Bar.
When I rack up more miles on Highland roads over the winter, weather permitting, I shall post more comment. So far I'm delighted with the Michelins. It's the track performance I am looking forward to appraising in 2018. That will an interesting comparison for me.
Good to hear you made the choice to go for a 718 Cayman. Enjoy!
Brian
Brian,
Although what sound you hear in the cabin is a combination of airborne and structure-borne noise, it's interesting to hear you say that the Michelins are quieter than the Pirellis, given that their load rating is higher and presumably the sidewalls are slightly stiffer.
Do they seem harsher or would you say that the ride quality hasn't been compromised?
Jeff
Although what sound you hear in the cabin is a combination of airborne and structure-borne noise, it's interesting to hear you say that the Michelins are quieter than the Pirellis, given that their load rating is higher and presumably the sidewalls are slightly stiffer.
Do they seem harsher or would you say that the ride quality hasn't been compromised?
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
Jeff,
I've only done 120 miles on my new PS4S N0 tyres, and all on the rural Highland roads in my locality. I am no stranger to high performance tyres on my Caymans, having done thousands of miles on each of the following, Dunlop Maxx Race, Toyo R888, Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, Michelin Pilot Sport Super Sports, Michelin Cup 2's, Pirelli P-Zero N0's and Ni's.
My first impressions of road use on the PS4S N0 at 2.3 Bar pressure all around, is that they seem generally quieter inside the cabin than the Pirelli P-Zero N1's. The ride quality on my particular car is absolutely unchanged. Not in the least hard or harsh, and with improved steering response from an already high benchmark. I know that may sound like a paradox to some, but it's my impression.
I shall continue to report back any modifications to these comments as I pile on the miles.
Brian
I've only done 120 miles on my new PS4S N0 tyres, and all on the rural Highland roads in my locality. I am no stranger to high performance tyres on my Caymans, having done thousands of miles on each of the following, Dunlop Maxx Race, Toyo R888, Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, Michelin Pilot Sport Super Sports, Michelin Cup 2's, Pirelli P-Zero N0's and Ni's.
My first impressions of road use on the PS4S N0 at 2.3 Bar pressure all around, is that they seem generally quieter inside the cabin than the Pirelli P-Zero N1's. The ride quality on my particular car is absolutely unchanged. Not in the least hard or harsh, and with improved steering response from an already high benchmark. I know that may sound like a paradox to some, but it's my impression.
I shall continue to report back any modifications to these comments as I pile on the miles.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Will do Bandido.
I'll also be very interested to test the wet road performance, particularly on track days which is the only place to really explore the grip levels at extremis.
It's early days yet, as I only had the PS4S N0 tyres fitted last Friday.
Incidentally, I was very privileged to get my hands on these new N0 versions so promptly following their release to retail customers. I understand they are on back order now. The new N0 PS4S tyres certainly look the business on my car.
On another topic, my forthcoming article on 12 months and 10k miles experience with my 718 Cayman S PDK has now been signed-off by the Porsche Post editorial team. They've done a fabulous job. The title they have chosen is "Reality Check" which is very apt. The text narrative, particularly the technical stuff, has been cut back for reasons of publication space. This is actually a blessing, as it absolves me of getting things wrong which I would otherwise have been taken to task about. The next issue of PP is due to be published on December 20th.
Brian
I'll also be very interested to test the wet road performance, particularly on track days which is the only place to really explore the grip levels at extremis.
It's early days yet, as I only had the PS4S N0 tyres fitted last Friday.
Incidentally, I was very privileged to get my hands on these new N0 versions so promptly following their release to retail customers. I understand they are on back order now. The new N0 PS4S tyres certainly look the business on my car.
On another topic, my forthcoming article on 12 months and 10k miles experience with my 718 Cayman S PDK has now been signed-off by the Porsche Post editorial team. They've done a fabulous job. The title they have chosen is "Reality Check" which is very apt. The text narrative, particularly the technical stuff, has been cut back for reasons of publication space. This is actually a blessing, as it absolves me of getting things wrong which I would otherwise have been taken to task about. The next issue of PP is due to be published on December 20th.
Brian
Brian_Innes
Member
Those of you following this thread will know that I recently fitted a set of 4 Michelin PS4S N0 rated tyres to my 718 CS. A selection of photos were posted earlier on this thread comparing the N0 PS4S with my previous P-Zero N1 tyres. There was a marked difference in profile between the two brands.
I subsequently made the observation that the sidewall profile of the N0 PS4S was also markedly different to my recollection of the non N rated PS4S as seen on Kevin Asbridge's CR at Oulton Park in November.
Kevin has kindly emailed me photos of his non-N rated PS4S on his CR. The wheels are OZ 19" 8.5" front, and 10.0" rear. My 718 CS has 20" 8.5" fronts and 10.5" rears.
The difference in sidewall profile between the two versions of the same tyres are strikingly clear. The N0 version of the PS4S was delayed by Porsche for more than 9 months for further testing. Seems they changed the sidewall profile of the 20" 718 version of the tyre from the "normal' PS4S. The 20" N0 version was originally intended for the launch of the 718 in 2016 but was embargoed by Porsche at the eleventh hour, switching to P-Zero N1's instead.
I hope this clears up any ambiguity regarding non-N rated and N0 versions of the PS4S Michelin tyres. There is a clear difference in sidewall construction.
Brian
I subsequently made the observation that the sidewall profile of the N0 PS4S was also markedly different to my recollection of the non N rated PS4S as seen on Kevin Asbridge's CR at Oulton Park in November.
Kevin has kindly emailed me photos of his non-N rated PS4S on his CR. The wheels are OZ 19" 8.5" front, and 10.0" rear. My 718 CS has 20" 8.5" fronts and 10.5" rears.
The difference in sidewall profile between the two versions of the same tyres are strikingly clear. The N0 version of the PS4S was delayed by Porsche for more than 9 months for further testing. Seems they changed the sidewall profile of the 20" 718 version of the tyre from the "normal' PS4S. The 20" N0 version was originally intended for the launch of the 718 in 2016 but was embargoed by Porsche at the eleventh hour, switching to P-Zero N1's instead.
I hope this clears up any ambiguity regarding non-N rated and N0 versions of the PS4S Michelin tyres. There is a clear difference in sidewall construction.
Brian
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