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My new 982 718 Cayman S PDK

Jamie,

I appreciate your comments on the HEL brake lines. The Goodridge version is my preferred option, but I'll certainly bear your advice in mind.

Good luck at the 'Ring and Spa. Hope the weather is warmer over there.

Brian

 
Update on the brake service.

After much deliberation, I have decided on this occasion to replace the brake pads with stock OE items. For the tracks I am doing this year, the OE pads will do fine. I don't stay out too long on my hot laps anyway.

My recent experiences with a "long" brake pedal at a very wet and slippery Knockhill, was probably due to the PSM and PTV intervening like mad on this short and technical track. Also, after 5 track days both front and rear pads have worn down, further reducing the heat dissipation properties of the brake pad material. The cumulative effect of PSM, PTV, worn pads, and hot brake fluid, combined to produce the longer brake pedal effect. That's my take on it anyway.

I received a quote from my OPC for the supply of a full set of front and rear pads, new calliper bolts, fitting kit, and brake wear sensors, for £414.05. The parts are not in stock and have to be ordered. (This surprised me!) I've ordered the parts and I'll collect them from my OPC within the next couple of weeks for fitting before my track day season commences. I'll also have the brake fluid changed at the same time.

Regarding the steel braided hoses, I am still keen to fit these. The reason I'm holding back is that none of the brake parts suppliers are listing steel braided brake lines for the 718 Cayman. The model is still quite new and is not yet appearing on the list of vehicles. I accept there are close similarities with suspension, brake calliper mountings, and wheel arch fixings between the 718 and 981 models. But the 718 CS also has a different steering rack taken from the 911 Turbo, so steering properties come into the equation. It may well be the case that the 981 steel braided brake hoses are the same length as those on the 718. However, for my piece of mind, especially with something so important as brakes, I shall postpone fitting steel braided brake lines until I see them listed specifically for my car. Maybe I'm being over cautious, but that's just me.

Brian





 
I'll be interested to see how my 718's brakes cope with trackdays.

I had my 981 S with PTV for 18 months, did a few track days and had no trouble at all. Sold it with the original pads.

But my 991 with ceramics and PTV went through a rear set, which really peed me off as they were £750 to replace! Had a real moan to the dealer who sold me the car and they eventually coughed up.

Like Brian, I tend to do short spells on track, with frequent coffee breaks, so obviously don't put extended strain on the brakes.

It was when I discovered how much ceramic discs cost to replace that I decided to stick with steel ones!

Hoping I meet those of you from up North at Oulton Park at the end of October. Any further than that is a long way from Devon.

Anyone going to Donington in July?

Rob

 
Rob,

The stock 718 CS brakes are very good, they are a significant improvement on the stock 987 CR brakes for example. However, they are still designed for public road use where speed limits apply, at least for the majority of law-abiding owners. It's the electronic interventions such as PSM and PTV which cause excessive brake pad wear. This applies braking action independently and automatically according to a predetermined programme hooked up to the dynamic forces exerted on the car. This rarely, if ever, comes into play on the public road.

On the track it's a different story, and under slippery conditions as I experienced recently at Knockhill, the PSM and PTV systems are applying braking effort across all four wheels independently according to the dynamics of the car at the time. These electronic interventions are proportionate to the grip of the tyres and the driving style of the pilot. When you combine a grippy tyre, slippery conditions, and an experienced wheel-smith, the intervention of the electronics increases dramatically. This happens behind the scenes, and without the awareness of the driver. The result is dramatic brake pad wear on all four corners of the car. So even if the driver limits the hot laps to two or three at a time, the resulting braking heat and pad wear is occurring irrespective of how the driver is consciously applying the brakes. The annoying thing for some of us is, you can't switch the PSM off completely. It's always there, lurking in the background like an unwanted guest at a party.

Of course all of this is in the name of greater safety and to protect the ham-fisted and clue-less from crashing their cars and endangering other people. That's just the way things are. I am old enough to have cut my teeth in motorsport when ABS, PSM, PTV were unheard of. Things were far simpler then and you learnt car control by the seat of your pants.

I have a confirmed entry for Donnington on July 24th for the afternoon session.

Brian



 
In the GT4 you can turn off the PSM but I believe it automatically switches back on as soon as ABS is triggered on both front wheels ... very easy to do in the wet !!

 
Chris,

That's exactly what happens on my 718 CS also. As soon as ABS is activated, PSM is back on.

As you say, very easy to do in the wet.

Brian

 
Just need more Threshold braking practice, I never see ABS on track.

I think on newer cars and people who jammed a GT3 MC into an old Cayman might have more issues threshold braking as they have far less pedal travel to modulate.

people do odd things for the wrong reasons.

But the GT4, GT3 and a standard R you should not be seeing ABS if you nail "Threshold braking" in the 981 Spyder it's a tad harder due to over servo assistance and it's been a while since my goes in a 718 to comment on the brake servo.

hence why I love the R it's so back to basics as much as I would want in a modern car, a true gem of a thing to drive.

 
MrDemon said:
Just need more Threshold braking practice, I never see ABS on track.

I think on newer cars and people who jammed a GT3 MC into an old Cayman might have more issues threshold braking as they have far less pedal travel to modulate.

people do odd things for the wrong reasons.

But the GT4, GT3 and a standard R you should not be seeing ABS if you nail "Threshold braking" in the 981 Spyder it's a tad harder due to over servo assistance and it's been a while since my goes in a 718 to comment on the brake servo.

hence why I love the R it's so back to basics as much as I would want in a modern car, a true gem of a thing to drive.
Click to expand...
David,

I've had plenty of practice at threshold braking. The track conditions at Knockhill a couple of weeks ago, with wet, newly laid tarmac and 5c temperatures tested all systems including the driver.

The frequent interventions of the electronic "safety systems" added excessive brake pad wear as well as frustrations to my day out. On normal track days, I seldom if ever, activate the ABS threshold.

Brian



 
MrDemon said:
Just need more Threshold braking practice, I never see ABS on track.

I think on newer cars and people who jammed a GT3 MC into an old Cayman might have more issues threshold braking as they have far less pedal travel to modulate.

people do odd things for the wrong reasons.

But the GT4, GT3 and a standard R you should not be seeing ABS if you nail "Threshold braking" in the 981 Spyder it's a tad harder due to over servo assistance and it's been a while since my goes in a 718 to comment on the brake servo.

hence why I love the R it's so back to basics as much as I would want in a modern car, a true gem of a thing to drive.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we all need more practice to be be as competent as you suggest you are ... sorry David.

In the dry with PSM on and in sport mode I'm seeing rear disc temperatures running at half the front temperatures so the PSM is clearly not in overload mode (but maybe I'm not trying).

And yes, in the wet I will happily leave the ABS to do a better job than I can. If you think that you can do a better job than ABS in the wet you are either a driving god, or IMHO delusional.

For a second opinion you could always ask Nick Tandy ... but what does he know ?

 
I would rather of asked Jim Clark about it, when motor racing was less automated and more exciting, rather than watching drivers try and save fuel lifting and coasting.

 
Ah, the great Jim Clark. Now he WAS a driving God.

I am old enough and lucky enough to have seen him race live at Brands Hatch in a 7 litre Ford Galaxy. Also witnessed his RAC Rally debut in a Lotus Cortina on the forest stages in the Highlands near where I now live. Unfortunately he crashed into rock on a stage shortly after. Always on the limit was JC, and so smooth with it.

No ABS in those days, just pure skill......

I view the electronic "safety" interventions on my 718 CS as a mixed blessing. Sometimes reassuring, sometimes a PITA.

I'll be interested to see what the brake disc temperatures are at my next hopefully dry track day. I would like to see the same result as Chris W has experienced. We shall have to wait and see how the PS4S N0's perform when warmed up on a dry track.

Brian

 
BJ Innes said:
Ah, the great Jim Clark. Now he WAS a driving God.

I am old enough and lucky enough to have seen him race live at Brands Hatch in a 7 litre Ford Galaxy. Also witnessed his RAC Rally debut in a Lotus Cortina on the forest stages in the Highlands near where I now live. Unfortunately he crashed into rock on a stage shortly after. Always on the limit was JC, and so smooth with it.

No ABS in those days, just pure skill......

I view the electronic "safety" interventions on my 718 CS as a mixed blessing. Sometimes reassuring, sometimes a PITA.

I'll be interested to see what the brake disc temperatures are at my next hopefully dry track day. I would like to see the same result as Chris W has experienced. We shall have to wait and see how the PS4S N0's perform when warmed up on a dry track.

Brian
Click to expand...

And the key word there was “skill”:)

i find it amusing when Stirlin Moss slates new drivers saying it’s far too easy.

modern hi end racing is a joke and dull, I gave up paying to watch it years ago.

I watch the TT bikes and that’s about it. That makes me shout at the telly in awe.

F1 well I am asleep within 5 laps.

 
Well, I'm watching the BTCC championship on ITV4 today.

I also gladly pay to watch that series when it comes north to Knockhill. At least in that particular championship there is still some real racing. Unlike F1 which I gave up on when it became a boring, fuel saving procession.

I also enjoy the TT racers, especially the sidecar teams. They have my utmost respect............

Brian

 
MrDemon said:
I would rather of asked Jim Clark about it, when motor racing was less automated and more exciting, rather than watching drivers try and save fuel lifting and coasting.
Click to expand...

A sneaky change of subject David. On that basis you should be driving an early 911 .... I'll swop you for a '73 911S ...

Instead, you have more bells and whistles than you know what to do with ... which doesn't stop the Gen2 GT3 being a great car.

Please in exchange accept that you are moving further and further away from, on this topic, knowing what you are talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-5LTaoat4I

 
Moving on from the absorbing subject of driving skills, driving legends, and electronic interventions............

I have ordered a second towing eye for my 718 CS. I already had a spare for my CR but Porsche in their wisdom changed the threads on the towing eyes from the 987 to the 718.

Track day regulars will know that cars need to have a towing eye fitted before being allowed out on track. This is to enable the recovery vehicle to tow the car out of the kitty litter should the worst happen. I've always had the dilemma of which end of my car should I fit the towing eye, front or rear.

Of course I hope the occasion never arises, but it would be silly to have the towing eye rendered inaccessible due to it being fitted on the wrong end of the car. So, I will now have two towing eyes on my 718, front and rear, to cover both ends should the unthinkable happen.

Brian



 
...and my CS. I think they changed the thread direction so clockwise to screw in now, my 997.2 GTS was anti-clockwise which confused me somewhat on the first CS trackday. [8|]

I have since bought the Motorsport webbing loop OMP items and just leave them in.

 
Chris, given the size of the manhole covers masquerading as brake discs you have on the GT4. i'm surprised they ever get warm let alone hot[:D] Having been i the car with you i can confirm they work rather well [:)]

 
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