My new 982 718 Cayman S PDK

[Ray]

I too would replace and that would allow bedding in to take place prior to race day.

Ray

 

[Steve Brookes]

I think the old ones will last for your tour and Blyton. From what I hear from those that have been to the Blyton day is that it's quite a gentle track day so your brakes won't be subject to the same amount of stress that places like Donny and KH put them under.

 

[Brian_Innes]

I think the old ones will last for your tour and Blyton. From what I hear from those that have been to the Blyton day is that it's quite a gentle track day so your brakes won't be subject to the same amount of stress that places like Donny and KH put them under.

That's also my current thinking Steve. I'm gentle on the brakes when public road driving, and the long trip south to Wales is mainly on straight intercity routes. Noting Ralph's suggestion, I am aware that the next half of the existing pad wear will go faster than the first. I consider the current brake pads will last ok for my forthcoming trip. The brake fluid change will also be done at the full pad change in June.

I also appreciate your helpful tip on Blyton Park. After looking at a satellite image of the circuit, this led me to the same conclusion. Regarding the Anglesey track day, although I'll be attending as usual, on this occasion, I'll not be driving.

As for bedding-in my new brake pads, this will be amply done on the 160 mile route south to Knockhill in July. The first 30 miles of this journey is on the A939 via Dava Moor to Grantown-on-Spey. A wonderful driver's road.

Brian

 

[Brian_Innes]

I'm shortly due to commence my long haul trip south to the PCGB events at Llandudno, Anglesey, and Blyton Park. The journey south will be done in "bite-sized" easy stages.

The first couple of days are mainly on rural roads that I am well used to, the section from north Yorkshire to north Wales is mainly motorway-land so cruise control will be deployed where traffic density permits. As it will be in north Wales where new 50mph speed limits are being introduced on a selection of "A" roads. Apparently this is to reduce air pollution.......Utter crap.

I'll be pleased to enjoy a chat with any contributors to this thread and forum who are attending the above events.

I'll be reporting back on my experiences of this 1800 mile epic at the end of May.

Brian

 

[SteveW4130]

I should be attending the Llandudno event as our first event being part of the club! We have just come back from a trip up to Glencoe/Fort William to ride bikes, unfortunately not in the Cayman! I'm very envious of your roads in the Highlands, I think we'll have to have a 'driving' trip up next time!

Cheers

Steve.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Steve,

The north Highland roads I know so well are ideally suited to your new 718 PDK Cayman. Just avoid the tourist season............

Brian

 

[Brian_Innes]

Back home in the Highlands following my epic 1600 mile, 14 day, car tour of the Borders, north Yorkshire, north Wales, Anglesey, the Peak District, and Lincolnshire. Quite long enough to be living out of suitcases and unpacking and repacking my 718 CS, where every available storage space was utilised. The weather was warm and sunny, apart from the Blyton Park track day, which was wet and miserable. More of that later.

The Llandudno Porsches on the Prom event was a sight to behold with another record turnout of both cars and spectators. Many thanks to all the PCGB forum contributors who spared the time for a chat at the Llandudno, Anglesey, and Blyton Park events. It was good to talk face to face rather than via the forum platform.

I attended the Anglesey track day as a spectator on this occasion. As usual, I managed to blag a few passenger laps during the afternoon session for entertainment. The most outstanding of which was OPC Chester dealer principal Carl Hazleton's demonstration of the astonishing performance of the 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS. The car had PDK and PCCB options fitted. Tyres were P-Zeros, which I'm not a fan of, but on this car on this day, they proved amply capable of keeping the car on line, and on the black stuff. The sheer grip, handling poise, and accelerative powers of this "showroom cooking car" absolutely astounded me. The C4GTS braked impressively, no bobbing, turned-in superbly, stuck to the chosen line, and the on-power traction exiting the corners was simply astounding. Why yearn after a GT3 when the GTS is so capable and useable. I am no stranger to fast laps in quick Porsches, so I was expecting a decent level of track performance from this car, given that it was driven by a very capable and polished motorsport driver such as Carl. By way of a direct comparison, later in the afternoon during my passenger laps with Chris Whittle in his Manthey GT4, Carl overtook us in the C4GTS, and Chris tucked in behind and "paced" for a few laps with both cars overtaking everything in our paths. It was an impressive performance from both the cars and their very capable drivers. I enjoyed it immensely.

Back to 718 CS topics, a couple of things worth mentioning which I discovered on this trip. First oil temperatures. On a very gentle tour of Anglesey, enforced by zealous police speed limit enforcement and the proliferation of 30, 40, and 50 mph zones, I chose to deactivate Sport mode and revert to Normal mode on the steering wheel dial switch. It was not long before I noticed the oil temperature gauge creeping up towards double digits. When the oil temperature reached 104c I decided to take action and switch back to my usual Sport mode. I had read in the technical papers that in Sport mode all 5 engine oil pumps are brought into action, whereas in Normal mode some oil pumps are deactivated. After switching back to Sport, the oil pressure increased to 2.6 bar from the previous 1.9 bar, and the oil temperature decreased to 92c after around 20 minutes driving. That's a significant 12c difference in oil temperature. I don't like high oil temperatures of +100c in my engines, so it has reaffirmed my decision to use Sport mode all of the time in my 718 CS.

The other issue was mpg. On this gentle 130 mile tour of Anglesey, my average fuel consumption showed 27mpg. Identical to the 911 Carrera 4 GTS which was on the same tour. As I have said many times on this forum, fuel economy is not a 718 CS strong point. My overall mpg for the 1600 miles of this tour was 28.2 mpg, almost identical to the overall mpg showing on my PCM for the entire 12,300 miles which I have so far covered in my car. This differs hugely from the 38.7 mpg figure quoted in the 718 handbook. Don't buy a 718CS if fuel economy is your priority.

My Blyton Park track day experience was blighted by the only day of rain I had in the whole fortnight away. I was hoping to properly test the Michelin PS4S N0 tyres on a warm and dry track. Sadly, that was not to be. Most of my laps were in wet or patchy damp conditions. After the lunch break I did manage a few laps on a drying track, but it was not the tyre test I had in mind. That will have to wait until Knockhill in July. The Blyton Park track was new to me, so I took advantage of the free tutor instruction. It's a technical track with a pronounced, crowned tarmac surface which is good for rain drainage, but has the disadvantage of providing adverse cambers on some long, fast corners. The 911's were affected by this more than the mid-engined Porsches. Unfortunately the afternoon session was brought to a premature close when someone dropped oil on a fast corner complex. A sudden shower of rain then spread the oil, aided by the crowned camber, all over the road. A red flag brought an end to the proceedings as far as I was concerned.

Finally, a comment on road and traffic following my 1600 mile adventure. I don't envy you Porsche owners in the south having to endure all those variable motorway speed limits and high traffic density as seems to be the norm these days. Motorways can also be nightmare. I was stuck on the M1 for an hour due to a crash between a van and a VW Golf. Also many of the rural roads I travelled on had 50 mph speed limits enforced by both fixed and mobile speed cameras. No wonder track days are becoming so popular. It was with relief, and more than a little joy, to return home via my favourite Highland rural routes where you can still drive your Porsche largely free from the draconian 30, 40 and 50 speed limits so prevalent in this recent experience of driving in England and Wales. For how much longer this will be the case in the Highlands I fear to predict.

Brian

 

[AndrewT]

Welcome back Brian!

Thank you for your very interesting report and as you said in your final comment life is tough for us drivers in the south, the do gooders believe speed limits make the roads safer but the problem is with the drivers not the roads - whatever happened to common sense and driving with due care and attention?

 

[Brian_Innes]

One more experience I must mention from the Blyton Park track day.

I had a few passenger laps from a fellow Scot, Walter, from Stranraer, who expertly piloted me at a rapid pace in his Cup 2 shod, manual Cayman R. This brought back many happy memories for me of my previous CR manual also shod with Michelin Cup 2 tyres. After the lunch break there was a window of opportunity when the racing line around the track was bone dry. Walter, being an experienced Blyton entrant, provided a text book demonstration of precision, performance driving around this tricky, technical track in far from ideal conditions. The dry line was narrow, no margin for errors here.

The glorious howl of the CR flat-6, the yowl from the clutch during the rapid manual upshifts through 2nd and 3rd gears, and the glue like grip of the Cup 2's brought it all back to me in a very evocative fashion.

The combination of an experienced track day driver, a manual CR, and Michelin Cup 2 tyres is probably the most fun you can have in a Porsche for £40k.

Brian

 

[AndrewCS]

Back to 718 CS topics, a couple of things worth mentioning which I discovered on this trip. First oil temperatures. On a very gentle tour of Anglesey, enforced by zealous police speed limit enforcement and the proliferation of 30, 40, and 50 mph zones, I chose to deactivate Sport mode and revert to Normal mode on the steering wheel dial switch. It was not long before I noticed the oil temperature gauge creeping up towards double digits. When the oil temperature reached 104c I decided to take action and switch back to my usual Sport mode. I had read in the technical papers that in Sport mode all 5 engine oil pumps are brought into action, whereas in Normal mode some oil pumps are deactivated. After switching back to Sport, the oil pressure increased to 2.6 bar from the previous 1.9 bar, and the oil temperature decreased to 92c after around 20 minutes driving. That's a significant 12c difference in oil temperature. I don't like high oil temperatures of +100c in my engines, so it has reaffirmed my decision to use Sport mode all of the time in my 718 CS.

Brian

Hi Brian, great to have you back ...

I always use `Normal` to warm the car (981 PDK CS) up, switching to `Sport` at 80` / 90`... appears to be quicker than when in `Sport` from cold. I wish the PDK box had an oil temperature indicator as experience of `similar` `boxes` shows `warm up` takes significantly longer.

 

[Steve Brookes]

Nice report Brian and good to catch up with you while 'on tour'. []

I can give you some feedback on PS4S tyres in hot dry conditions as I went out at Anglesey with Kevin in his Cayman R that wears them. Kevin is quick round there and we had a lot of fun. Especially because it was quite clear that even with the hot pressures set where he wanted them that it only took about three laps for them to go off. At which point the car was losing grip and sliding in a lot of the corners. Good fun but not the best scenario for fast lap times.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Thanks Steve.

Good to catch up with you too.

That's a very interesting comment on Kevin's experiences with the PS4S tyres on hot dry track conditions. Not what I expected to hear.

Assuming the 20" PS4S N0 versions perform the same, I'll be aware of that at Knockhill in July.

I'll be reporting more on my experiences with the PS4S N0 in hot dry track conditions in due course. They have a high bar to clear before they match the Cup 2's.

Brian

 

[penguinman]

I can add to Steve's experience with PS4S's, fitted to 981S, at Brands Indy circuit, dry but a little cold, back in late March. Totally agree, after a couple of warming laps (me, tyres, brakes), they felt instantly better than the P Zero N1's. Turn in particularly good, and I was a happy panda. But, Like Steve, after 4 or 5 quicker laps, they went off almost instantly, like a switch. Turn in grip lessened, and slidey mid corner similar to Pirellis.

I started on 30psi all round cold , and checked on coming in they were over 40. Reduced to 37 all round hot, went out later and had same experience.

On GP circuit next week, be interesting.

 

[Jmt]

I'm using Cup 2's on mine and they are working really well on the car.

As I don't use the car daily or in bad weather it's worked perfectly well for me

 

[Brian_Innes]

I can add to Steve's experience with PS4S's, fitted to 981S, at Brands Indy circuit, dry but a little cold, back in late March. Totally agree, after a couple of warming laps (me, tyres, brakes), they felt instantly better than the P Zero N1's. Turn in particularly good, and I was a happy panda. But, Like Steve, after 4 or 5 quicker laps, they went off almost instantly, like a switch. Turn in grip lessened, and slidey mid corner similar to Pirellis.

I started on 30psi all round cold , and checked on coming in they were over 40. Reduced to 37 all round hot, went out later and had same experience.

On GP circuit next week, be interesting.

This all sounds rather depressing.

My only track experiences so far on PS4S N0's have been on a wet/damp track in cool conditions, and so far they have performed astonishingly well. The P-Zero N1's performed ok on my 718 CS at Knockhill last year in warmish dry conditions provided I did no more than 3 consecutive hot laps. Then the slides set in. I was hoping for a more consistent track performance in the dry from the new PS4S N0's.

The Cup 2's are still my benchmark tyre. The only reason I didn't fit them was the "N" rating issue on 20" sizes for my 718 CS Carrera Sport alloys. After talking to my OPC re fitting Cup 2's, they raised the question of warranty compliance.

I decided not to risk it, and waited for the PS4S N0's. I hope I have not made the wrong choice. Like you Jamie, I don't use my car as a daily driver, or in wintry bad weather.

I'll be very interested to appraise the PS4S N0 performance on a warm, dry Knockhill. (fingers crossed!) It's a track I know very well, and recent kerbing improvements have made the lap records tumble in every category. Tyre grip will be tested severely at Knockhill PCGB this year.........as will brakes.

Brian

 

[ralphmusic]

Brian,

I would have thought the warranty thing arising from non-standard parts such as tyres would only be an issue with Extended Warranty, not with the Factory cover in the first 3 years of ownership. Fitting equivalent consumable parts should not be an issue in the first 3 years.

Ralph

 

[Jmt]

Hiya

I understand the point around fitting the correct tyres. That been said Id argue they were N rated.

I presume the dealer would argue the 245 front tyre profile vs the standard 235 front would be the issue?

They certainly have added to the performance of the car which was already brilliant.

Jamie

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[RCS]

Brian,

I would have thought the warranty thing arising from non-standard parts such as tyres would only be an issue with Extended Warranty, not with the Factory cover in the first 3 years of ownership. Fitting equivalent consumable parts should not be an issue in the first 3 years.

Ralph

/quote]

I think Porsche would say if they are not N rated they are not equivalent. I used to be in the 'why N rated whats the difference' camp until a couple of weeks ago our region had a talk from Pirelli. I was highly surprised (shocked?) when they showed us 4 same sized tyres but each made for a different manufacturer, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari and Jaguar I think. Other than the car makers code on the side, externally they looked the same as regards tread pattern etc, but the construction of each was totally different. Some were 3 ply, some single ply, the beading profile was different etc, effectively 4 totally different tyres bearing the same name and tread, each designed to the manufacturers requirements as regards handling in dry and wet weather, suspension, noise etc.



They also cited the example of an Audi TT Black Edition having a thumping noise at the rear when fitted with Pirelli tyres, but not the AO Audi marked version. Apparently the AO version had a more rounded side wall, whereas as the 'ordinary' version had straighter side walls, so the tyre was catching a fixing on the car under certain conditions, which the AO rated ones with curved walls would just miss, such was the fine tolerance and design.



Its given me a totally different perspective on this topic.

Rod - RO R4



Note:- I have no idea why it looks like this is part of Ralph's quote!

 

[ralphmusic]

The quoted text should end with "open square bracket quote end square bracket", I think you might have inadvertently deleted the opening square bracket

 

[Brian_Innes]

All very interesting comments.

Jamie,

You are correct about the 245 section being the warranty quibble on the front Cup 2's. I would fit these tyres in a heartbeat if my car was not still under warranty. When pressed on the tyre issue, my OPC service manager told me that any deviation from the stock OE sizes would invalidate my warranty. The warranty compliance people check everything before authorising a new vehicle warranty claim. That sealed it for me.

Rod,

The Pirelli talk you quoted, reaffirms what I have already been told by the Michelin technical staff. N rated Porsche tyres are not just a moulding stamp. There are construction differences as well as profile differences between seemingly identical tyres. My photos earlier in this thread of the 20" PS4S N0 and non-N rated 19" versions bear witness to this.

I already know how well the Cup 2's perform on a CR. I'm hoping the 20" PS4S NO's on my 718 CS outperform the Pirelli N1's, and move the performance bar closer to that of the Cup 2's. I'm not expecting the PS4S N0's to match Cup 2's in grip and consistency, as they are mainly a road tyre and not a track tyre, but I'm hoping that they will move the track performance closer than their successor the Pilot Super Sports.

I appreciate all of this is only of interest to track day drivers. For general road use, the PS4S N0 will be absolutely fine.

Brian