Neils thought for the day!

[Fen]

I think the Lambos are Lambo's attempt at a supercar. They have some financial backing and access to the parts bin for things like switchgear and maybe some engineering backup if they request it, but they still make their own cars.

Of course the R8 is compared to the C2 (or C4) and of course the 997 Turbo would be quicker. Who's to say there won't be an R8 Turbo of some sort? The 997 Turbo lagged the C2 and C4 by some time and Audi aren't exactly turbo-shy. There is supposedly a V10 coming already to increase performance. My point was that there are cars that are able to take the fight to the 997.

I have very little interest in the new M3 - perhaps it wouldn't look so crap if the press cars weren't all red because that just doesn't suit it, but it's a bland design.

I don't know why Jethro started with an M3 (and e36 Evo GT) - I thought at the time he'd have been better off with a 944T.

 

[RC18B 911 turbo]

The new M3 was tested recently against the Audi RS4 and the Audi was a lot better than the Beemer apparently, but not as good as the last M3 the E46.

EVO defiantely chose the wrong car the M3 they chose the E36 is to heavy and doesn't quite have the power or handling to make up for that, also looks quite bland.

The colours I saw the R8 in was red, 2 Silvers and that pale blue which all the press cars seemed to be in which I think suited the car but still looks a bit bland compared to its rivals. I think I read somewhere that Porsche had something to do with the development on the R8, chassis and engine I think.

 

[Fen]

On a quick Google just now I can't find anything linking Porsche with the development of the R8.

I didn't read the review that I saw saying the RS4 beat the M3 so I don't know how big the margin was. Evo said it was close but in favour of the M3.

 

[DivineE]

The guys from Evo live very close to me so I've had a good look round that M3, I think if you stripped out a 944 that much and put the same rubber on it you could push 8mins with the 250 turbo standard (maybe just need a remap). I will be very sure to take him out in my 944 when its done and demonstrate his error!

They always get it wrong with these challenges. I remember when fifth gear chose the Lotus V8 to try and build a 200mph car?! I mean how foolish can you get!

 

[Diver944]

I'm not positive but I think Derek Bells time of 8m30s in 1988 time will be a full lap, whereas as Davyboys puny 8m19s [] will be Bridge to Gantry, so add another 30s on top to make a comparison. Dave also has circa 290bhp and R rated rubber (and has probably done more laps )

 

[Fen]

Actually thinking about it the Jaguar test driver I got chatting to last year there who did an 8:01 BTG was in an e36 M3 non Evo which was gutted with coilovers, decent tyres and an exhaust upgrade but otherwise standard, so young Jethro just needs to grow bigger 'nads.

 

[Hilux]

Derek Bells time of 8m30s in 1988 time will be a full lap, whereas as Davyboys puny 8m19s [] will be Bridge to Gantry, so add another 30s on top to make a comparison

It was a full lap IMMSMC and on the standard rubber too.

 

[RC18B 911 turbo]

On a quick Google just now I can't find anything linking Porsche with the development of the R8.

I didn't read the review that I saw saying the RS4 beat the M3 so I don't know how big the margin was. Evo said it was close but in favour of the M3.

I believe it was autocar that tested it and said that the Audi won apparently by a about I would say a mediumish margin (I have to admit though that the V8 in the M3 sounds really nice saw the Video on the EVO site) and also it was them that said Porsche had something to do with the development of the Audi probably a load of bull I suspect.

I think that part of EVOs failing was to do with uprating everything but not focusing enough on each bit to make them work on the track like perhaps lowering the weight (which an E36 definatly needs if you ask me) and setting the handling properly, that and needing more balls and track time I think.

 

[beavercraig]

ORIGINAL: pjb



mark

no offence meant, i guess that yes, the english sun is very strong []

pjb

( but they could give their clothing free considering the price of a switch LOL )

Sun seems to be getting hotter these days![] Perhaps its just age as I seem to need a cap more and more[&o] I swop between a Porsche cap and a le mans cap, allthough its getting abit faded and sweaty after ten years, now sad I know[8|]

Have bought a number of cars from OPC's. If I remember correctly I have been given a mug, an umbrella that lasted about 3 weeks, and latest freeby was a Porsche teddy bear and a set of three golf balls![]. The balls lasted less than 9 holes, the teddy bear is still going strong!

 

[sawood12]

Bloomin stingy OPC's. My mate bought a 2nd hand Boxster privately, bought a pair of mats from the OPC and got offered a Cayman S for a day or a Porsche track day for his troubles. I reckon i've bought a good few hundred quids worth of parts for my Porker and got sweet FA. I'm going to drop a few hints next time i'm in there.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Lol, don't want to burst your bubble Scott but I don't think the OPC's make much if any money on the parts us guys buy (especially if you get a nice discount) compared to the cut made on selling a 70+K car.

Mind you the only freebies I have got have been drinks and they refused to let me sit in a carrera GT! I mean how could they know that I am not a serious buyer?

 

[George Elliott]

A 911 is a 911 - a device similar to a car with 5 round dials, thin pillars, offset pedals hinged at the floor, a distinct smell from the heat exchangers, doors which close like a vault, two front wing tops to aim it, generally poor brakes/lights/ventilation/gear change/luggage space (because they dont matter too much), but a feeling which nothing on 4 wheels can come close to.

Porsche were an engineering company, with German Craftmanship at their core, and developed the 917 when they were so led and managed. Now craftsmanship is too expensive, so they have sold out to become Marketing led and are appreciated by people who cannot drive quickly in many cases, and are more interested in what others think of their Porsche. I know some of these people and they are OK, but they cannot understand me because I have a garage full of 15 year old cars and think Dry Sump is important on a performance air-cooled engine. They think dry sump is when they are thirsty.

They think Image, I think Pedigree. Horses for courses.

I too am a Merc Cosworth fan

George

944T
911

 

[Fen]

George you clearly like what I do about the 911 - except I think you extend yours a little bit newer than I would as I decided my 964 was too diluted. I know I have said I don't really want another one and that is true, but if there were 3.2 Carrera / 930 generation or earlier cars available that I could be confident don't have tin-worm in the kidney bowls I might be keener.

BTW I got invited to a driving day in 2001 by Exeter OPC, but that was because I was running a Turbo for 50,000 miles a year and getting it serviced there rather than just buying parts. There was also a small charge for the day which I believe everyone had to pay. It was a good day out and allowed me to confirm I didn't want a 996 or a Boxster in any guise.

I've long liked the idea of the Merc Cosworth also though there has always been something else I fancied more when it came time to buy something.

 

[beavercraig]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

A 911 is a 911 - a device similar to a car with 5 round dials, thin pillars, offset pedals hinged at the floor, a distinct smell from the heat exchangers, doors which close like a vault, two front wing tops to aim it, generally poor brakes/lights/ventilation/gear change/luggage space (because they dont matter too much), but a feeling which nothing on 4 wheels can come close to.

Porsche were an engineering company, with German Craftmanship at their core, and developed the 917 when they were so led and managed. Now craftsmanship is too expensive, so they have sold out to become Marketing led and are appreciated by people who cannot drive quickly in many cases, and are more interested in what others think of their Porsche. I know some of these people and they are OK, but they cannot understand me because I have a garage full of 15 year old cars and think Dry Sump is important on a performance air-cooled engine. They think dry sump is when they are thirsty.

They think Image, I think Pedigree. Horses for courses.

I too am a Merc Cosworth fan

George

944T
911

I could write a novel on this topic but will keep my comments brief. Any business is only successful if it sells what customers want, Porsche included! Its the most profitable car company in the world because it manufactures a prestige product people want to buy and yes image is part of that story, as it has always been. Its engineering prowess is second to none. Just remember Stig taking c2s over the Mountian against an Aston and a 500bhp BMW M6. How many modern cars sold in the volumes the C2S is have titanium suspension? It has lost the plot on racing with a spyder thats too expensive and a 997RSR thats uncompetiitve vs Astons. But as ever they will fix it.
Any Porsche ownership is far more than image. its a true passion and love for the "pedigree"
Those that know, know, and those that don't will never know![]

 

[Robert Edwards]

What I really admire about Porsche (and, to a slightly lesser extent 'The german car') is that they invariably evolve to what they should be, even though they often start from a slightly strange place. In Porsche's case, they justifiably used the Beetle and went for the V8 air-cooled Tatra transport model as fast as they possibly could, even though German officers in occupied Czechoslovakia were banned from driving Tatras because they were so tail-happy.

And then, you drive an early 911 and you find that it is no different. I have a chum who writes about these things (as I do) but has driven them properly too, at Le Mans, even. I heard him give someone a fairly sarcastic bollocking when the unhappy punter removed the spoiler from his Carrera for visual reasons: "They put it there for a reason, twit..."

So when you buy one, you are buying into an evolutionary curve - the only dificulty (but an entertaining one) is that you don't know which bit of that curve you are on.

I adored my 911; I adored my 944, and I was v. tempted by a 356 (still a car I find beguiling) but I do not know whether I would recognise (general shape aside) a new one.

But then I am quite happy driving a 20 year old car! My kids just don't get it! I have no doubt that when Porsche get into electric propulsion they will dust off the old yellowing plans for the motor-at-each-corner, powered by an idling engine, that Ferdinand Porsche designed for the Elefant self-propelled gun in 1943.

But at least they have a place to start!

 

[Robert Edwards]

ORIGINAL: Ian B Walker

Robert, you have taste [] . I am the Proprietor of a Mercedes Workshop and your choice of a Merc is what many people aspire too. Just make sure you keep it in tune. However, owning multiple Mercs is nice but driving Otto (944) is real fun.

I forgot to respond the this - one of the reasons I adore the Cosworth, apart from the grunt and the handling, is that you are invited to reset the tappets with shims, none of your zerolash rubbish and, once you have done you get some really intimate sense of involvement. If that isn't childish, I don't know what is!

 

[sawood12]

Well I am torn when it comes to the 911. I like the atmosphere, noise and general sense of basicness of the early models but am constantly amazed by the sheer capability and performance of the later 996 and 997 911's. For a car that breaks one of the most cardinal rules in the "How To Build A Sportscar" text book Porsche have done a cracking job. I'm now of the impression that the only 911 i'd have is the 996/997 GT3 turbo, so i've got a while yet before they depreciate into my price range - although not as long as i'd had to have waited 20 yrs ago for the older equivalent models to depreciate. It's only taken the rest of the sportscar manufacturers 40yrs to arguably catch upto the 911. Quite an achievement in this day and age.

That is one good thing for people like me about the newer models - because they are now built in large production numbers they will depreciate like any other prestige car. I've seen decent 996 turbo's for under £40k. They are well on their way down now.

 

[peanut]

well I'm definitly a car enthusiast first. No loyalty to Porsche really. Probably because its the Hun lol.
I wish there had been some decent Jag sports cars I would have liked the Britishness of running a car whose marque had some racing pedigree and trounced the jerry . But Leyland came along and put an end to any hopes in that direction so as a kid I restored and ran MGB's in all their guises doing lots of original mods . Great little car but no grunt or handling whatsoever. Moving on my wife told me to ditch the two Datsun 240z's and the early MGB and `get something sensible' that was a 86 oval dash Lux in zermatt silver and I ran that car for 9 years and 100k before spinning it at 20mph on a greasy r/about.
Then came a 90 S2 never liked the car don't know why. then sold it to pay for medicare (broke my back) then I got a 928 79 model hopeless handling totally outdated no electrics superb engine but the fuel consumption just kills any enjoyment of the thing. It was too lumbering like a wallowing barge with an aircraft engine.

Last car I had a short list of 20 sports cars to choose rom . Ended up choosing a 89 S2 ???? I just cannot fault the whole driving experience. Comfortable modern driving experience Speed and good handling , with bags of character but modern equipment. No fuss power delivery its my favorite car and I would always own one . Besides its got the engine in the right place lol[]

 

[Robert Edwards]

I agree re. engine position; I have always preferred the engine in the front with rear wheel drive, the only exception being Golf GTi Mk2s and FWD (Lancia, Quattro, etc). And of course, the 911...

 

[Neil Haughey]

IMHO the best layout for a high performance road car is 4wd, predominantly because of traction and stability in the rain. This has nothing to do with what I may prefer to drive or what may or may not be the best drivers car, I think ppl get confused on these issues buying RS porsches for example and then not taking them on the track.

What I have found so dissapointing in recent years and it effects most manufacturers is trying too hard to develop something that is good at everything but then fails to be much fun for the driver.

For me the ultimate road based performance car for many years has been the Mitsubishi evo series. Its just a shame that all the money was spent on the mechanicals to the extent that the rest of the package is fairly poor.

AFAIK this new 4wd system that Saab have been developing copies the Mitsubishi approach in using drive to the outer rear wheel to help the car turn. The idea of something like an Evo # in a Saab 9-3 body with reasonable ride comfort and NVH levels is very attractive to me.

A carrera 4 as an every day car is also very attractive but the price they ask for what is a now a fairly common consumer product is not very amusing. i.e. a 996/997 these days is no more special then an Audi S#/RS# or BMW M# or AMG.

This is Porsche's problem, they are victims of their own success.

I too like the Cosworth Merc's it was a properly special engine before MB decided that special Merc's would just have ruddy great V8's in the front.