Omg, how clean is this turbo?!

[John Sims]

Cleaning is therapeutic and I can see the satisfaction in having been judged as paying more attention to absolute detail than someone else.

I respect of car one there are those who have not had the wool pulled over their eyes. When discussing it with someone who knows something about concourse he did mention the painted bits in a derogatory manner. [8|]

 

[Hilux]

I`ll have to say that I never quite understand the modern concours ie: new cars being judged..............how pathetic and sad is that!! If you want to show pride in a car then invest time and effort in keeping a classic going and dont just buy something expensive and then show it in a concours (not just a show and shine) as if its your creation cos REAL car people know you are a sad numpty with no skills other than a polishing cloth. By all means have a nice new car but perleeese dont show it off as your having achieved something other than buying it cos you havent.

On the other hand I can (and did) appreciate the satisfaction that goes into a concours car having restored it. There is a sense of achievement (500 plus hours worth) that you will never get in a new car but in all the classic car `concours` I entered most (and I`ll admit I was) are very very anal people which is why (for me) the novelty of cleaning and polishing the rear axle for the 300th time wore off.

Still, there is a very nice fully restored Rover out there (and a very nice 944 as per this post) that I hope will be around for many years and to me at least that is an achievement. Also, to be fair, the concours scene ensures that many great classics are preserved and new younger people are enthused by them

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: Fen

Sorry to disagree, Patrick, but I'm pretty certain that that has been painted. As has the black cover in the transmission (which should be flat black) and I suspect the alloy parts of the transmission also.

Even if it has been anodised that is just as incorrect as the original finish and has resulted in completely the wrong colour.

I have to agree with John - if that were my car I would not be able to open the bonnet without apologising for the hideous gold bits and I'd have to do something about them. On the other hand I could live with a bit of honest engine bay grime quite happily.

In any case if it is the car we saw at Goodwood it is apparent from looking at it that it has had a lot of attention that hasn't been done quite well enough. I forget the specifics but I'm pretty sure the lay of the metallic particles in the paint is different on some panels, for example. I actually didn't think it was an especially nice example at all when I saw it, just one that had had a massive amount of effort put into cleaning it. It's certainly far from concourse in any case.

So to clarify Fen, are you guys saying that all the 'gold' looking parts through pictures 5-9 are painted? Or just some specific parts? I have certainly seen this colour metal part on our cars after they've been re-zinc'd. Period correct or not. Perhaps it's a US thing or maybe I've seen it here, but I've seen it plain as day. I can't imagine this car that is supposedly a multi concourse winning product with a bunch of gold paint can you? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it would seem strange no?

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333
I have certainly seen this colour metal part on our cars after they've been re-zinc'd.

Me too, but the "gold" aspect didn't come out as brash, unshiny and plain yellow-ish as on here.
Just depends on the kind of treatment I guess.
Also, maybe what we can see on the pictures of the ad is not what we would see in reality.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333]

So to clarify ... are you guys saying that all the 'gold' looking parts through pictures 5-9 are painted? Or just some specific parts? I have certainly seen this colour metal part on our cars after they've been re-zinc'd....

The original parts were passivated. This produces a rust resistant finish which is predominantly gold colour but has other colours visible going towards greens and blues. I don't know why the other colours appear and perhaps Simon P could explain. I am assuming it is down to contamination of the part prior to treatment. So, perhaps if the part was perfectly clean, and the dipping bath 100% pure, perhaps it could produce a 100% even gold finish.

The car in the pictures, IMHO, is almost a cartoon of the correct colours (you know how a cartoon only has a limited colour palate). If you look at the engine and suspension, the aluminium is all exactly the same colour, as are all the passivated bits. Cast, unanodised aluminium doesn't look like that. The main give away is on the transmission - there are some passivated allen bolts (and you can see the variations in colour) and there are some silver bolts - bizarely, these are exactly the same colour as the cast aluminium parts.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

The original parts were passivated. This produces a rust resistant finish which is predominantly gold colour but has other colours visible going towards greens and blues.

.....and as a visual aid to Johns explanation here is a picture of my engine before it was installed [] All the golden bolts and plates were freshly passivated by SimonP before assembly

 

[wibble]

Which reminds me, mine needs a clean. Now where is that barrel of gunk?

 

[333pg333]

I agree with you in theory John, Fen, and Paul. Perhaps my colour processor is not up to scratch []. I can certainly see the different colour in the strut tops but some of the others could be more one colour than that range you mention. It still doesn't make sense that the person would have gone to what is obviously an awful lot of trouble on this car, and then have these dominant parts painted gold when it would be just as easy to have them 'passivated'? As well as the judges deducting marks for this. Just seems odd to me? Why don't one of you gents contact the guy and ask him? []
Nice pic too by the way Paul. Don't they just look gorgeous when they're all shiny and new.

 

[333pg333]

Now say what you really mean next time. []

I think his car looks amazing. Not what I'd want from my car, but it looks an incredible example nonetheless. Having seen some really good concourse cars up close, it does give you a slice of times gone by when these rolled off the factory floor.
As for the shit heaps that we drive, well you're welcome to drive mine if you're in Sydney one day and see if you might change your mind. haha.

 

[Frenchy]

Scotty, read my post i never called the car, it looks lovely and hats off to him for spending that much time and effort, all i was saying is that there are cleaner more original cars out there, i love to see clean really well kept cars, but the concourse thing is a bit OTT as you are afraid to use them, i must admit my Alpina won a first prize in the BMW show and shine (not concourse)at Harewood House last year but the front was splattered with flies which i did not clean off as it would only get splattered on the drive home, i give the rest of the car a wipe over with quick detailer.
Paul Mike Moores white turbo is not a concourse competitor he just got carried away while stripping it down for some minor paintwork and carried on going, his car was low mileage so must stuff was pretty good anyway, he uses the car on a regular basis but does clean it when he gets home.
The car was at Silverstone last year Reg *** GUN it really will be about one of the best left in the country, i can assure you i know a straight car when i see one, most of my cars sell by word of mouth as people know how i keep them.
My turbo is not mint but way way above average, my Alpina is mint, and probably the best example of the model (B3 3.3) in the country

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: sc0tty

I can't believe you guys, you haven't got one good thing to say about Chris's car, I am sure there are many 944 owners, myself included that like to keep their cars in very clean condition, rather than replace every orignal engine part and replace it with some modifiaction to boost the BHP. Why can't you appreaciate what a superb car it is in great condition? I would rahter buy a car like Chris's than one of your track day old bangers that has been messed around with.

And if any of you think his car is worth 4k to 5k, then most of the sh**heaps that you all own must be next to worthless, especially after all the crap mods you have added.

What a miserable bunch you all are.

Nicely put....[8|]

I can't understand why anyone would spend that amount of time on cleaning a car. But, if you're going to do it then do it well. I'd guess that Chris would rather enjoy his success than read about how it doesn't meet some people's personal standards. At least he's made the effort - most 944 owners never attend an event, let alone enter a competition!

If this car sells for less than £15K it's a travesty. Just as Simon's is worth £15K. To say it's worth the same as a rusty turbo with dubious history is an insult. And, please don't comment unless you've seen the car close-up, in the flesh. Camera-phone pictures are not always 100% perfect......

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
To say it's worth the same as a rusty turbo with dubious history is an insult. And, please don't comment unless you've seen the car close-up, in the flesh.

Very true, but how does it drive?
If it did not drive better than a "rusty turbo with dubious history" (which I doubt), how much more do you think potential buyers would value it?

 

[pauly]

I don't know why people are getting emotional about this car, it's for sale so it's bound to attract interest, the fact the seller doesn't know what it's worth is inviting people to speculate on it's value, ultimately it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it, regardless of what the owner thinks.

 

[333pg333]

For some reason this forum seems to be getting a bit pedantic of late? Oh well, I mean some of the users. It's just a car forum isn't it?

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: sc0tty

I can't believe you guys, you haven't got one good thing to say about Chris's car, I am sure there are many 944 owners, myself included that like to keep their cars in very clean condition, rather than replace every orignal engine part and replace it with some modifiaction to boost the BHP. Why can't you appreaciate what a superb car it is in great condition? I would rahter buy a car like Chris's than one of your track day old bangers that has been messed around with.

And if any of you think his car is worth 4k to 5k, then most of the sh**heaps that you all own must be next to worthless, especially after all the crap mods you have added.

What a miserable bunch you all are.

You are Mr Balanced Opinion who knows all about everything though, don't forget [8|]

The seller says it's the best; it isn't. That much can be seen from the pics. It isn't concourse as it has several finishes that (whatever they are) aren't original. So it's just a clean 944T that has been tidied up not quite right. I have seen this car and I wasn't impressed. Maybe I'm just fussier than you, but it's not exceptional. So, an unexceptional '86 Turbo that has had a lot of cleaning materials spunked on it. £4k-£5k in my book.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

For some reason this forum seems to be getting a bit pedantic of late? Oh well, I mean some of the users. It's just a car forum isn't it?

Well said, Patrick. Unfortunately some people make it their aim to find fault with everything. [:'(]

If you don't like concourse cars, I don't, that's fine - but why try and be more critical of the car than the numerous judges in all it's events were? The poor guy never asked anyone here for any comment, or anyone's perceived value, yet it's been remorselessly (how is that word spelt [8|]) run down for no reason.

I was brought up to keep my mouth shut unless I had something constructive to say. Why can't we just get back to enjoying the forum, without it all getting personal and critical?

 

[Hilux]

To be honest, as long as you forget the word `concours` we would all quite like a car that clean.

 

[John Sims]

Oh dear, aren't we all getting a little carried away here.

Nobody has said it isn't a clean car. It is a very clean car. It is a spotlessly clean car and I admire the owner for taking such time and effort.

It was perhaps unfortunate he had to describe it as The Best because that then opens a debate as to if it is "The Best", which is what has happened here. Inevitably, while having a debate, you make statements as to why your consider a car may or may not be The Best.

Some of us have made the observation that some of the parts have been painted. What is the issue with that if they have? I have said, personally, I don't like them painted, but that is my opinion.

Others have an equally valid opinion and probably wouldn't like what I have done with my car. I don't mind. It is my car and it makes me happy. No doubt the car for sale made the current owner happy and will, I hope, make the buyer happy. So where is the harm in that?

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: John Sims
Others have an equally valid opinion and probably wouldn't like what I have done with my car. I don't mind. It is my car and it makes me happy. No doubt the car for sale made the current owner happy and will, I hope, make the buyer happy. So where is the harm in that?

It seems we all agree with this, but as said earlier it is described as "The Best in the country", whereas we don't all share the same meaning of the term.
This goes without saying the car remains exceptional.

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Oh dear, aren't we all getting a little carried away here.

Nobody has said it isn't a clean car. It is a very clean car. It is a spotlessly clean car and I admire the owner for taking such time and effort.

It was perhaps unfortunate he had to describe it as The Best because that then opens a debate as to if it is "The Best", which is what has happened here. Inevitably, while having a debate, you make statements as to why your consider a car may or may not be The Best.

Some of us have made the observation that some of the parts have been painted. What is the issue with that if they have? I have said, personally, I don't like them painted, but that is my opinion.

Others have an equally valid opinion and probably wouldn't like what I have done with my car. I don't mind. It is my car and it makes me happy. No doubt the car for sale made the current owner happy and will, I hope, make the buyer happy. So where is the harm in that?

No we're not getting #*&%^#&&@&#*%(* -ing carried away here....and keep your sh-it heap jalopy away from mine lest they try and propagate...[]

I actually think the car is amazingly clean whether it's 100% original or not. What impresses me is how you keep it to that standard while driving it. Hmm, perhaps you don't...