Part Ex Values - So disappointed!

[Peter Cee]

To Rodney & Dylan :

I do agree with you that the large hike in costs may result in many existing extended warranty customers not renewing - I wouldn't expect any of these to view the new warranty as good news.

However, my point is that crashing residuals will push many customers who would normally replace their cars as the new car warranty expired, into hanging on to their cars.

It is these customers who are likely to jump at the extended warranty - the choice which many will be faced with is say for example : take a £40k hit on depreciation (and risk it happening again) or pay £1500 a year to keep the car going with the same warranty - Easy choice that.

Don't forget there will be many customers who bought brand new 997's in the last two years, who are as yet blissfully unaware of the drop in residuals - only when they visit the OPC to look at changing their car, will they find out the bad news - for them the warranty will be a no brainer.

I'm not trying to run down the alternative specialist warranty offerings, which probably offer much better value for money - however you have to put yourself in the mindset of the guy who bought a new 997 Turbo two years ago - he's probably not too bothered about a few hundred quid either way for the sake of simplicity and the flexibility of being able to take the car to any OPC under warranty - if I was that man I would take the new extended warranty without batting an eyelid.

Only time will tell if the warranty eventually takes off but my guess is that in the long term it will.

Shame they can't reduce the price by £500 - then I guess we'd all be happy.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Hi Peter,

I think the issue isn't really with the increased price as it is still competitive. The problem is that there used to be an extended warranty which was very inclusive - almost every car that passed the 111 point inspection could get one (and even if it failed, you could rectify any problems at an indi), and the price was very good.

Now, you can't have anything aftermarket fitted (that includes interior light bulbs!!), and you can't have any work done by an indi, and you have to get the car inspected again if you want to renew (unless you have the 2 year plan). So you have to jump through so many hoops just to get one on a car that's worth a lot less than you thought (in value for money stakes it's not as good a deal anymore even if the price was the same).

So yes people are likely to hold their cars longer in the current economic climate, but they are now also likely to be cutting back on expenses.
I just don't see that demand for the new warranty increasing.
Modded cars will be out as it will be too pricey to put them back to stock.
Unmodded older cars will be out due to the price increase and it being relatively bad value and having to have your car serviced at an OPC.
That will push a lot of cars out of the OPC service centres too.

So the only real market I see for the new warranty is cars just out of factory warranty, with owners who don't care or don't even know of indis who don't mind a price increase.

Not that big a market surely? I don't think those are the type of people who even know what an RMS is, or are even aware of engine blow ups or anything of the sort. They probably think Porsche's are bullet proof.

But then again porsche were making a loss on the old warranty, so maybe they don't care.

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

Now, you can't have anything aftermarket fitted (that includes interior light bulbs!!), and you can't have any work done by an indi,

So the only real market I see for the new warranty is cars just out of factory warranty, with owners who don't care or don't even know of indis who don't mind a price increase.

But then again porsche were making a loss on the old warranty, so maybe they don't care.

I thought the law changed and you could have work done by an indi specialist as long as they used Porsche parts and did the work according to the book!

How did Porsche make a loss on an insurance policy? They seem far too slick accountant wise to fool for a loss making scheme for so long as well

All I know is my car is 4 years old and so far so good as I decided I will under write any unforseen repairs and as all my cars all my long motoring life have been treated and driven with utmost respect and mechanical sympathy I have never lost out to date [&o]

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: Peter Cee

however you have to put yourself in the mindset of the guy who bought a new 997 Turbo two years ago - he's probably not too bothered about a few hundred quid either way for the sake of simplicity and the flexibility of being able to take the car to any OPC under warranty - if I was that man I would take the new extended warranty without batting an eyelid.

Nope - I don't like getting ripped off no matter whether it's a 1 or 1000 pounds. So I wouldn't take out the new Porsche warranty even if I could (due to my mods).

Generally I don't take out extended warranties on anything. Look after something well enough and that is insurance in itself. I haven't suffered with any of my other cars by not taking out extended warranties, to me the risk is not greater than the cost, not even close.

 

[Dylan1]

agree with rodney and Alex 100%-moreover i suspect that many people who as peter says,will hold onto their cars for longer will,rather than fork out for opc warranties with hoops and limitations will instead do what alex and others(including myself)will do-spend their hard earned on upgrades and mods to keep their cars fun for longer-and the added problem of course is that they then cant have the warranty even if they wanted to.rather than fork out mindlessly on opc warranty,most of us whove earnt our money would rather see it go on tangible improvements which keep us smiling even whenthe cars are 5 and more yrs old.just my thought

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: daro911

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

Now, you can't have anything aftermarket fitted (that includes interior light bulbs!!), and you can't have any work done by an indi,

So the only real market I see for the new warranty is cars just out of factory warranty, with owners who don't care or don't even know of indis who don't mind a price increase.

But then again porsche were making a loss on the old warranty, so maybe they don't care.

I thought the law changed and you could have work done by an indi specialist as long as they used Porsche parts and did the work according to the book!

It's just an extended warranty, it's an optional extra provided to you if you are happy to play by their rules or they just won't accept you. There's no form of redress, you either sign up or you don't.

 

[Peter Cee]

As always, the devil is in the detail - it all hinges on how the terms of the new warranty are interpreted and enforced.

Some forum posts have indicated that there may be confusion amongst OPCs about application of the terms and conditions.

Personally I will not be taking up the warranty until I have cleared up the issue of modifications to audio systems invalidating the complete vehicle warranty - and I'm going to discuss this with a local OPC next week.

I don't think its fair to blame Porsche for attempting to limit their liability for damage caused by modifications - but if there is a bloody minded application of the rules to deprive people of cover for any excuse, then the warranty will be discredited and fail.

I also don't subscribe to the view that the warranty is a 'rip off' - expensive and restrictive maybe - but not a rip off.

To Joe Public, the person who buys a new 997 for £80k might appear to be being ripped off (as there are much cheaper cars available) - but I prefer the view that he is simply exercising his right to choose.

You pays your money and makes your choice - and that goes for the warranty too.

 

[Dylan1]

"I also don't subscribe to the view that the warranty is a 'rip off' - expensive and restrictive maybe - but not a rip off. "

what??-at nearly 4 times the cost of my similar priced bmw comprehensive(and 3yr free!)warranty quote [] would a "rip off"be ten times??!!!!

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

"I also don't subscribe to the view that the warranty is a 'rip off' - expensive and restrictive maybe - but not a rip off. "

what??-at nearly 4 times the cost of my similar priced bmw comprehensive(and 3yr free!)warranty quote [] would a "rip off"be ten times??!!!!

In terms of the BMW //M warranty the Porsche one is VFM..
BMW took over 12 months to realise what it had done wrong as far as its costing, they also had an excess to pay on every claim made!!

garyw

 

[Dylan1]

ORIGINAL: garyw

ORIGINAL: dyllan

"I also don't subscribe to the view that the warranty is a 'rip off' - expensive and restrictive maybe - but not a rip off. "

what??-at nearly 4 times the cost of my similar priced bmw comprehensive(and 3yr free!)warranty quote [] would a "rip off"be ten times??!!!!

In terms of the BMW //M warranty the Porsche one is VFM..
BMW took over 12 months to realise what it had done wrong as far as its costing, they also had an excess to pay on every claim made!!

garyw

current quote was issued last week ,£400 full cover ,even with £100 excess its 1/3 the porsche warranty.far better value by my simple maths-and every claim ive needed on the bmw`s ive had have been done without question-the first one i had for a porsche was refused as "wear and tear" which is part of the reason ive not renenwed opc warranty and going with indi (JZ)

 

[jonathanw]

My car is only a few months old and I will probably keep it for several years so will have to consider the warranty issue in due course. I have taken the old style warranty with previous cars.

However I have had hard-wired a radar blaster - I mean front parking sensor- will this mean that the new style warranty will not be allowed and I intend to have a Road Angel also hard-wired.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: jonathanw

My car is only a few months old and I will probably keep it for several years so will have to consider the warranty issue in due course. I have taken the old style warranty with previous cars.

However I have had hard-wired a radar blaster - I mean front parking sensor- will this mean that the new style warranty will not be allowed and I intend to have a Road Angel also hard-wired.

Yes you will have to remove those items, or you will not qualify for the new warranty.

 

[jonathanw]

Does this mean that my "new car warranty" of 2 years is therefore invalid as I have the offending items already installed. As far as I am aware there is nothing in the warranty that prohibits third party add ons. If this is so maybe somebody can come up with a legal challenge to the exclusions for the extended warranty and add ons already in situ before the end of the initial new car warranty.

It seems all a bit daft to me.

 

[garyw]

Johnathan, the difference is the factory 2 year warranty and the optional warranty.
Block exemption and all the protection applies for the factory standard warranty, not for the extended optional warranty (read = insurance)

Again the same car built in the same factory going to the USA get the 4 years where its an additional 2.5K for us in the UK, and that not just the USA

garyw

 

[Peter Cee]

Spoke to a local OPC today who confirmed that any non Porsche items such as radar detectors etc would have to be removed from the car or it will not pass the 111 point check.

What appears less certain is, if the OPC's will be disallowing warranty claims made after the 111 point check, on a vehicle which has been modified after the check, but where the modification can have no bearing on the fault which has ocurred - for example if you present the car to the OPC with an engine oil seal failure then they are they may well ignore the radar detector which obviously can not have contributed to the mechanical problem ( the emphasis is on the word 'may') .

My interest in this stems from the fact that Porsche have not yet provided an adequate ipod adapter ( the official Porsche item has no functionality and just operates as an auxiliary input - meaning that the ipod cannot be controlled via PCM - in my view making it unsafe to operate whilst driving).

Hence my car is currently fitted with a non Porsche ipod adapter - this is of the type which simply plugs in and replaces the the remote CD autochanger in the luggage compartment.

This would have to be removed prior to the 111 point check, and in theory were I ever to feel like refitting it at a later date on a 'temporary basis' , it would be prudent to ensure that it had been removed prior to submission of the car to OPC in the event of a warranty claim or before the next 111 point inspection.

In the future, if Porsche were to offer a fully functioning ipod adapter I would actually be happy to replace it with one.

Meanwhile, it looks like I am just going to have to get used to listening to the radio. []

 

[garyw]

I don't own an Ipod, so can't really comment on the lack of interfaces for it via Porsche, however I'm fully aware of the problems, and agree as ever Porsche is not the tend setter but a follower in every sense.

With a 6 disc multichanger AND an MP3 disc in the centre slot, I've not yet ran out of music on a single trip and guess what.. neither am I beating myself up over it..

However, shockingly the car still drives and handles in a way that give a great buzz.... []

garyw

 

[dereksharpuk]

ORIGINAL: Peter Cee

My interest in this stems from the fact that Porsche have not yet provided an adequate ipod adapter ( the official Porsche item has no functionality and just operates as an auxiliary input - meaning that the ipod cannot be controlled via PCM - in my view making it unsafe to operate whilst driving).

In the future, if Porsche were to offer a fully functioning ipod adapter I would actually be happy to replace it with one.

Of course the Gen 2 has a fully functioning iPod connection that works perfectly through the PCM. All tracks, artists etc can be viewed. So Peter why not trade up to a 997 Gen 2 now; and probably be the only person in the UK to do so this year []

 

[Peter Cee]

The Porsche philosophy is always to make impovements and then charge a shed load more.

Unfortunately the crash in values means that upgrading to a Gen 2 car is definately not an attractive proposition from a financial point of view - it would feel like throwing good money after bad.

To get back to the main purpose of this thread - I see a similarity between the housing market and the expensive sportscar market.

People have stopped believing that houses are worth what they were being sold for a couple of years ago. Those that have lost a packet will probably never have faith in the housing market again.

Now think about the sportscar market - I think that people have stopped believing that a nearly new sportscar is worth £70k - and in fact why should a 911 be worth so much ? - yes I know about production costs, development, marketing etc, but let's face it that's all bullsh*t - the real reason it costs so much is because loyal Porsche enthusiasts have been willing to pay it.

The problem is, as a serial 911 owner, I now actually don't believe that they are worth that much.

Now that people have stopped believing that sportscars should cost £70k, it may be that the 911 has no viable long term future - the future lies with Cayman's and Boxters which do 90% of the job at 50% of the price - and I can see that Porsche has the potential to develop these cars further and will have to do so to survive.

Heresy - or just plain common sense ?

(but hey Derek look on the bright side, - 'last of the 911's' - got to be a collectors item!)

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: Peter Cee

To get back to the main purpose of this thread - I see a similarity between the housing market and the expensive sportscar market.

People have stopped believing that houses are worth what they were being sold for a couple of years ago. Those that have lost a packet will probably never have faith in the housing market again

it may be that the 911 has no viable long term future - and I can see that Porsche has the potential to develop these cars further and will have to do so to survive.

Heresy - or just plain common sense

I agree about the similarities but isn't this all just cyclical? It's not the first recession or time when house prices have dropped back. History seems to suggest that the markets will, eventually, sort themselves out, whether it be houses, cars, shares jobs etc and prices will start to go up again. Not that the lessons will be learnt as shown by the similarities to the Wall St Crash of the 1930's.
On the 911 front Porsche have done a pretty good job of evolving the type over the last 40+ years so I don't think the 997 Gen 2 will be the last! (or I've got a collector's item too![])
Not heresy! Just that when we enter stormy waters, not knowing how far the rough seas will extend, we get that very uneasy feeling in the pit of our stomachs![:'(]
I might be over-optimistic about the situation but life is too short and precious to spend time bemoaning my lot.

 

[Peter Cee]

At the end of the day it is only what people believe something is worth that gives it value.

Belief in the value of cars will recover eventually in a couple of years (especially with the lack of Gen 2 cars going onto the second hand market, they should attract a premium) - but by that time we may be in a different situation as far as the political correctness of petrol fuelled cars is concerned.

I bought a 1 year old 911 twelve months ago, yet if you ask me if I had my time again ,what would I do - the answer is I would do exactly the same again.

Why? - because at the time it was the only way of getting the car which I love.

Times of cars and no money, are better than times of money and no cars.

Best get on with enjoying them whilst we can eh?