PDK......2500 miles and more feedback

[colloc]

Rather than having to look on the dash to see what gear the car is in you can hold the down change button as the car will not select a gear that cannot be used i.e it is not possible to select 2nd gear at 90 mph.
Was shown this by the Porsche instructor, as it's deemed useful when heavy braking into a corner not only do you benefit from the engine braking you are in a low gear to power through the bend.

 

[chrisH]

ORIGINAL: colloc

Rather than having to look on the dash to see what gear the car is in you can hold the down change button as the car will not select a gear that cannot be used i.e it is not possible to select 2nd gear at 90 mph.
Was shown this by the Porsche instructor, as it's deemed useful when heavy braking into a corner not only do you benefit from the engine braking you are in a low gear to power through the bend.

Was your demo at Silverstone or Chobham as if at the latter what are your comments on PDK v's manual at the higher speeds achievable there? Was the instructor Mr. Attwood?

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: Senna

Have to say I found similar experiences when test driving a couple more PDK 911's before I purchased my car. In that I am pretty certain the car goes into (for want of a better word) some kind of 'neutral' mode whereby the car tends to disengage it's 'creep' power when the brake is applied at rest. This can be felt via the brake pedal and heard via the engine tone. When taking my foot off the brake (doesn't matter which foot) I definitely notice a lag/gap before the car re-engages and starts creeping again. The lag can and often is well caught out because (and I've not timed this) but my guesstimate is that it's anything from around half a second to almost a full second which is way too slow because I don't think it takes more than 1/10th or a couple of 10ths of a second to go from brake pedal to accelerator hence catching out the system almost all the time.

Have just come back from conducting a little test! Got the car on level ground, warmed up, in "D" stationary. Sat there with foot firmly on the brake for 3 mins +. When I took my foot off the brake it immediately started creeping. Did the same again and this time went straight on to the gas and there was no clunking, no delay, no sense of anything "re-engaging", just pulled away. During the stationary period I also kept an eye on the revs and they stayed constant at 750 throughout - so no change as if to indicate coming out of gear.
Btw, if you are getting from the brake to the accelerator in a tenth of a second, well done! Try timing a tenth, then think about what happens in a manual even if you are sitting there holding on the handbrake, clutch in, in gear etc. How long do you think it takes to give it revs let out the clutch and move away? More than 1/2 a second I'd guess? So these people behind you at the lights must be pretty sharp! [] It is odd though that there is this diffference in how we sense our cars to be.

 

[Adam2S]

Ive never experienced the car going into neutral whilst it is in D mode. For me too the car constantly tries to creep - thats one of the automaticesque things about PDK that I dont like.

Like Senna put in his original post, I too have used the tactic of pushing it into N to stop the annoying creep. Again like Senna I have expereinced the clunk as it engages. What you need to do to re-create the clunk is stop at the lights, put the car in N and wait for the lights to go green. As soon as they go green put the car into D and immediatly press the throttle pedal. If you press the gas without waiting for a little bit the engine revs and then engages the gear moments after which results in a huge clunk and the car lurches forward.....

 

[tscaptain]

Ok, I agree if you get on the gas when going from N to D before a gear has engaged then it doesn't like it - which is why the owners manual says "wait until the gear has engaged before pressing the accelerator." There is bound to be a small delay then before the gear engages D or R.
There is nothing in the OP, however, about putting the car in N to stop the creep only that holding on the foot or hand brake puts the car into "neutral" and it then takes time to "re-engage" a gear when the brake is released. Not on mine or yours, Adam, by the sound of it. If I have taken it out of gear at the lights I do pre-empt the change and select D or M before they go green
I don't know the mechanics of how the PDK "slips" the clutch while stopped and in D or M but I guess that if there wasn't a tendency to creep with the brake off then the pick up when you do step on the gas would be much slower. All I can re-iterate is that it hasn't caused any embarrassing moments due to slow pull away (yet!) while waiting for a gear to engage. Anything from other Forums on this?

 

[Adam2S]

yes agreed Ive never had it disengage whilst in D - it always tries to creep on my car indefinatly.

Tried to recreate the clunk today after Id posted the above and I couldnt! lol... Must be just one of those things it does from time to time - a bit like the occasional very jerky change from 1st to 2nd you get when the engine is cold - usually on just the first change after setting off.

Hey ho.... Anyway not a biggie as you say and its hardly surprising really if you have it in N and then engage D whilst accelarating... I just wish the car didnt creep - more than any of my other gripes its the creep that leaves me with the overriding feeling Im driving an auto.

 

[yan]

ORIGINAL: Tony M

With regard to the question of being in the right gear prior to overtaking, the Tiptronic gearbox has a facility which I beleive only a few people are aware of.

If one 'Blips' the throttle, as opposed to 'Kicking Down',the gearbox automatically selects the optimum gear for overtaking and holds this gear until you are ready to overtake.

This feature may be on the PDK box as well.

My son has a PDK box on his 997 and I phoned to ask him if the facility was the same as his previous Tip box and he didn't know but is going to try it out on the way home tonight !!

Hi Tony

Just to clarify - you have this 'blip' feature on the TT? I ask since if I blip the throttle a little way it will change down, however in the context of preparing to over-take such a procedure would have me in the back of car in front as the car is already beginning to accelerate - mid-blip. When I was taken through the features at Milbrook (06) I was advised that the method for overtaking was to use a manual change down but am quite aware that different instructors will say different things... May be I am just not doing it right...
Colloc - if you hold the down/up button on Tiptronic it does not select an optimum gear it just changes down one ratio - very useful "new" feature on PDK I think.

 

[Tony M]

Hi J

The 'Blip' is a very quick depression of the pedal and it should be so quick that the car hasn't time to accelerate. On my non PDK box one can drop from 5th to 2nd or 3rd dependant on road speed.

My son has been experimenting with his PDK box and can easily drop from 7th to 3rd in the blink of an eye !

It is a strange process to get it right and you may need to find a quiet long straight stretch of road and have a practice play around with different 'Blips' !!

 

[colloc]

J,
I never stated that it was a 'New' feature of holding down the down change button. I merely pointed out that by holding down the button the car would continue to downchange but would not engage a gear that would exceed the rev limiter as was demonstrated to me by Barry Horne (Porsche instructor).
Read the post properly.
Regards

 

[Alex L]

I assume you all saw the 5th Gear review of PDK last night?

Video: http://fwd.five.tv/videos/porsche-shootout

 

[colloc]

No too busy living my life instead of sitting around watching the TV, anything of interest there?
Regards
Colin

 

[tscaptain]

Not that he'd made up his mind before driving it, of course! Seemed to spend a lot of time d**king around with the buttons, if he'd put it in Sport+ (if it had it fitted) and left it to do it's own thing (and he wasn't JP but an ordinary mortal) my guess it that it would be a bit quicker!

 

[Alex L]

The manual you will notice didn't have sports chrono so lower rpm limit, less responsive throttle and I would assume no sports PASM.

I guess Porsche GB (assuming they provided the 2 press cars) would have wanted the PDK to win.

 

[colloc]

Will they be any happier once the flappy paddle gear change is available?

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: colloc

No too busy living my life instead of sitting around watching the TV, anything of interest there?
Regards
Colin

• PDK interface was not liked at all, completely counter-intuitive
• The manual was 30 kg lighter than the PDK car
• The manual car didn't have Sports Chrono, the PDK car did
• The manual car was 0.5s a lap (40 odd sec laps) faster
• Buy yourself Sky+ and then you won't have to sit around as much - the good stuff comes to you! [][][]

 

[tscaptain]

"They" being the press, I suppose you mean? Quite possibly but as the motoring press have almost universally slated the buttons a change to paddles may help the image.
I just take all of that stuff with a pinch of salt. JP, having done the in car piece to camera pulling faces about the PDK and stuff was then hardly going to produce a quicker lap! I didn't get the bit about "it changes gear when it wants to" and then proceeds to demo how not to use the buttons either. Odd piece really.

 

[ralphmusic]

Same experiences with a Boxster S with PDK. Just fine on the open road but slow moving traffic, starting off after waiting at roundabouts and lights, and reversing uphill all seem to be outside PDK's comfort zone. I also find cruise (a necessary evil these days with points) very variable cycling +/- 3 mph up and down modest hills. Local OPC checked everything out and logged behaviour with PGB - I just stay on the open road, much more fun!
Otherwise great car & gearbox.

 

[yan]

Colloc - grammatical error I think on my part by using quotation marks and apologies if has caused question - I was noting this as a *new* feature over-and-above of the out-going Tiptronic box and I am thankful for the information as I am weighing up whether this box may be worth an upgrade at some stage.
Regards

 

[Senna]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Ok, I agree if you get on the gas when going from N to D before a gear has engaged then it doesn't like it - which is why the owners manual says "wait until the gear has engaged before pressing the accelerator." There is bound to be a small delay then before the gear engages D or R.

I tend to leave mine in drive mode and rarely disengage and move the shifter to neutral. As I mentioned, I do get a fairly long time lag in terms of the car re-engaging when moving my foot off the brake and back onto the accelerator pedal.
[/quote]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain
I don't know the mechanics of how the PDK "slips" the clutch while stopped and in D or M but I guess that if there wasn't a tendency to creep with the brake off then the pick up when you do step on the gas would be much slower. All I can re-iterate is that it hasn't caused any embarrassing moments due to slow pull away (yet!) while waiting for a gear to engage. Anything from other Forums on this?

Not seen or heard any other comments from other forums (mind you I've also never seen anyone mention the fact that the 997.2 C2 has aluminium doors as opposed to the C2S which has steel doors, but its a fact). That said no one else here seems to be experiencing what I am with my PDK so mine could simply be faulty []

 

[Senna]

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic

Same experiences with a Boxster S with PDK. Just fine on the open road but slow moving traffic, starting off after waiting at roundabouts and lights, and reversing uphill all seem to be outside PDK's comfort zone. I also find cruise (a necessary evil these days with points) very variable cycling +/- 3 mph up and down modest hills. Local OPC checked everything out and logged behaviour with PGB - I just stay on the open road, much more fun!
Otherwise great car & gearbox.

Hi Ralph,
Can you elaborate a little??? Are you having the exact problems to those I described earlier in the thread?