PDK......2500 miles and more feedback

daro911 · Jun 18, 2009

http://fwd.five.tv/videos/porsche-shootout

Porsche Shootout [FONT=verdana,geneva"]

Shoot-Outs | Two almost identical Porsche Caymans are the subject of this week's shootout "" one with a traditional manual gearbox, the other with Porsche's new PDK double clutch system. [FONT=verdana,geneva"]

Dylan1 · Jun 18, 2009

ORIGINAL: daro911

http://fwd.five.tv/videos/porsche-shootout

Porsche Shootout

Shoot-Outs | Two almost identical Porsche Caymans are the subject of this week's shootout "" one with a traditional manual gearbox, the other with Porsche's new PDK double clutch system.

old news i`m afraid [

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see link -cayman section "gen 2 pdk"-been talked about for days[

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ralphmusic · Jun 18, 2009

I assume I have the issues I listed because there is no torque converter. I had a tiptronic before and the normal changes were not quite as smooth or fast as PDK. Tiptronic also had strong engine braking which meant cruise operated in a tighter speed band.

So starting off at a roundabout when you want to beat the next lane means that it is either blindingly fast or you have to let it move off on idle and then get going - not very elegant.

Generally, I find it quite difficult to gently ease off the line, especially reversing up a slope to my garage. In stop-go traffic, it is the same - the accelerator is rather like a switch.

Open road and once rolling, it is great and much better than tiptronic.

Rodney Naghar · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: Alex L

I assume you all saw the 5th Gear review of PDK last night?

Video: http://fwd.five.tv/videos/porsche-shootout

What a joke. How hard can it be to press the right button? This is supposed to be mature journalism not about throwing your toys out of the pram because you are too stupid to be able to adapt to a new system. PDK is a fantastic engineering accomplishment, give it the respect it deserves, and discuss it's relative merits. I hate it when journos jump on the bandwagon and dismiss the sytem out of hand because they can't get their tiny brains around the push-pull system. [

]

dereksharpuk · Jun 19, 2009

Totally agree. And he misses the point. Moreover, he did not give it a chance and tried to manually overide the gearbox, getting it wrong every time. No wonder the PDK was slower in his hands. Plato may be a touring car champion, but he is used to a different system. He should have left it in auto and concentrated on line and braking. He did Porsche no favours. Trouble is, many mere mortals will listen to Plato. This mere mortal, however, knows that PDK is not only quicker on paper, but much quicker in my hands. I am no Plato.

Tony M · Jun 19, 2009

Why did nobody explain to him that it is an 'Automatic' gearbox ?

Senna · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: dereksharpuk

Totally agree. And he misses the point. Moreover, he did not give it a chance and tried to manually overide the gearbox, getting it wrong every time. No wonder the PDK was slower in his hands. Plato may be a touring car champion, but he is used to a different system. He should have left it in auto and concentrated on line and braking. He did Porsche no favours. Trouble is, many mere mortals will listen to Plato. This mere mortal, however, knows that PDK is not only quicker on paper, but much quicker in my hands. I am no Plato.

Here here Derek. The motoring journalists seem to be following each other like sheep with regard to comments about the useability of the PDK button arrangement. I got up and running and mistake free in 2 minutes. As you say, if the likes of us (non pro drivers) can do this why on earth can't they? Clarkson will be on the case next, he has a problem with 911's in general anyway so I can't wait for his daft comments (much as I like him most of the time).

Senna · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic

I assume I have the issues I listed because there is no torque converter. I had a tiptronic before and the normal changes were not quite as smooth or fast as PDK. Tiptronic also had strong engine braking which meant cruise operated in a tighter speed band.

So starting off at a roundabout when you want to beat the next lane means that it is either blindingly fast or you have to let it move off on idle and then get going - not very elegant.

Generally, I find it quite difficult to gently ease off the line, especially reversing up a slope to my garage. In stop-go traffic, it is the same - the accelerator is rather like a switch.

Open road and once rolling, it is great and much better than tiptronic.

Agree with just about everything here except that I think the brake pedal seems to be acting like a switch. On my 997.2 anyway [

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tscaptain · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: dereksharpuk

Totally agree. And he misses the point. Moreover, he did not give it a chance and tried to manually overide the gearbox, getting it wrong every time. No wonder the PDK was slower in his hands. Plato may be a touring car champion, but he is used to a different system. He should have left it in auto and concentrated on line and braking. He did Porsche no favours. Trouble is, many mere mortals will listen to Plato. This mere mortal, however, knows that PDK is not only quicker on paper, but much quicker in my hands. I am no Plato.

Well I said my piece earlier but having spent the day (again) at Castle Combe yesterday I can only repeat that in the hands of a mere mortal (and very average track driver) the PDK left to it's own devices in Sport + is outstanding. Not one missed gear change all day![

]

Gary C · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Not one missed gear change all day![]

And there's my problem with PDK, the machine is doing it, not the driver.

But a wonderful bit of design though, always admired the technology since it was used in 85

tscaptain · Jun 19, 2009

Well not quite as half the day I was choosing when to change gear, not the machine. The fact that I didn't have to depress a clutch and move a lever but push or pull a "button" doesn't detract from the timing and selection of the right gear but., admittedly, it does make it easier.
Then there's the ABS, PSM, assisted braking, assisted steering, they might as well put a groove in the track, a peg on the bottom of the car and have a life size Scalextric!
Anyway it would be boring if we all liked the same things and Forums may cease to exist!

Gary C · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Well not quite as half the day I was choosing when to change gear, not the machine. !

Would not totally agree, you are choosing when, but not actually doing it [

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Dylan1 · Jun 19, 2009

i think that was the exact point our "flyer" was trying to make-he WAS deciding when to change gear rather than the machine-but rather than his left foot doing the work it was his mitts on the steering wheel telling machine when to[

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Gary C · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: dyllan

i think that was the exact point our "flyer" was trying to make-he WAS deciding when to change gear rather than the machine-but rather than his left foot doing the work it was his mitts on the steering wheel telling machine when to[]

And therefore not actually as involved in the process as a manual box.

Think though I need to drive one of these cars [

],

I like my manual, I like toeing and heeling through a down shift, not because its easy and I get it right, but because it is difficult (and I get it wrong a lot [

]).

However, I bet PDK is great fun on a track, and I can't argue with the technological superiority (especially over my 20yr old G50)

tscaptain · Jun 19, 2009

I quite agree, Gary, and Dylan is right about the point I was trying to make. 'Twas ever thus, some regard these things as progress and some as a backward step. The fact that modern aircraft controls are not connected directly to the moving bits but through a bunch of wires and computers is the same - some think it's progress others hate the idea. I think there is a place for both and I'm probably going to get another toy this weekend to feed my gearstick and clutch needs! [

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daro911 · Jun 19, 2009

Long story cut short but today I had the pleasure of driving my first ever road experience with a PDK style gearbox as fitted to the brand spanking new Ferrari California (seriously unattractive looking car for a Ferrari IMO see below) I was advised to leave the gearbox in "Auto" mode and see what happens [&o] 30 minutes later and to my disbelief I was still in the "Auto" mode which was changing up and down the box pretty much at the times I would have done if driven in manual mode. Very VERY impressive piece of kit which for all I know may even be the same box that you guys all now own [

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I was also told that despite the Ferrari only coming with a 4 year warranty

the dual clutches should prove to be good enough to last indefinitely be it on miles or many years of use.

I stupidly didn't realise that these PDK type boxes are modern day auto boxes with incredibly quick thinking brains and allow smooth changes up or down, at all speeds, in either full auto or manual mode and really have nothing in common with the now old out dated clunky F1 or Sportshift single clutch manual systems of the past decade or so.

I think I now need to get down to my OPC and see how similar the Porsche PDK is to the fantasticly brilliant Ferrari

dereksharpuk · Jun 19, 2009

ORIGINAL: daro911

I think I now need to get down to my OPC and see how similar the Porsche PDK is to the fantasticly brillaint Ferrari's

Well, having driven both, I can honestly say that the Porsche PDK is better than the Ferrari California version, which is just a little jerky. I was told that it is made that way so that the driver is aware that it has changed gear. Yeah! However, the paddle shift WAS 100% better than the PDK buttons and so intuative. Whereas with PDK, I leave it in auto, with the California I retain total control and use the paddles. That said, the California system at present has a fault. It got totally confused at one stage and entered a 'stealth' mode. I could not change gear at all and had to stop, switch off, wait 1 minute, then start again. What a pain. Still, I gather there is a software fix available.

Other than that, the Ferrari California is brilliant, a cross between a Porsche and a Ferrari. It looks so much better in the flesh. Pity it cost twice as much as a 911 C2.

Clewsey · Jun 20, 2009

ORIGINAL: Alex L

I assume you all saw the 5th Gear review of PDK last night?

Video: http://fwd.five.tv/videos/porsche-shootout

What a load of cr@p. A rubbish test and it's about time all media stopped going on about the button position. I tell you after 6.5k miles, even after 100 miles it isn't a problem.

After doing 6 laps of the ring in mine driving with the buttons, PDK proved to be awesome!

spyderman · Jun 20, 2009

Plato's a very experienced racing driver and every car he's ever driven with a sequential gearbox is going to operate the exact opposite way from the Porsche - so its hardly surprising he doesn't like PDK. IMHO, the test was almost pointless.

Having said that, I'm not going to support Porsche's decision to make the controls work they way they do. To produce a system that works contrary to everyone else's is simply silly.

Gary C · Jun 20, 2009

Certainly was unfair to complain about the layout, almost like complaining about a dogleg 1st gear in a manual or the 911 engine being in the wrong place. Its the way it is, and you get used to it [

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Comparison by tscaptain with a fly by wire plane is interesting. I certainly would not like to try to fly an F16 without the computer (not that I would get a chance!) and the active yaw control on an EVO adds to that cars driving experience.

I must have gearknob envy [

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