porsche 996 turbo vs 996 c4s

[Richard_Hamilton]

ORIGINAL: dyllan
and its value must surely hold up better being the TT[]

The TT has plummeted in value faster than the C4S - what's to say it won't continue at a faster rate? I'm waiting for it to get to mid 30's for a good one - shouldn't be too long now! [] []

If depreciation is your main consideration, go for a GT3 Mk1 - they will always be rarer and more sought after than the TT. A Comfort spec one wouldn't be much more difficult to live with than a TT either. All IMHO, or course.

 

[SCOTJC]

surely if the tt's plumetted more than that means it is closer to the bottom of its curve? For example 01 car 95k new now worth estimate of £38k = 40% of its original value which is pretty good for a 6 year old car think. It can't continue at a faster rate or they'd end up giving them away![]

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

ORIGINAL: SCOTJC
surely if the tt's plumetted more than that means it is closer to the bottom of its curve? For example 01 car 95k new now worth estimate of £38k = 40% of its original value which is pretty good for a 6 year old car think. It can't continue at a faster rate or they'd end up giving them away![]

It was a very tongue-in-cheek comment Scott - plummetting was too strong a word, and you are correct that 40% is a good residual value for a 6 year old car. I appreciate that it is all relative, but if I was the original purchaser I would still be smarting at losing £10000 a year in depreciation. That's just me though, and if I could afford to spend £100000 on a new one, I could probably wouldn't be too worried about the depreciation.

Whatever happens, C4Ss and TTs are going to continue to depreciate. I personally don't think that the rate of depreciation should influence your choice between the two. At the current values, the difference will be marginal, so buy what you feel you want. If depreciation is the primary influence on your purchase, buy something with rarity value, which neither the C4S or TT have.

Me, I'm still looking forward to TTs reaching a level where my heart can convince my head that it is time to take the plunge [] [].

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Every time the C4s vs turbo debate appears the majority say go for the tt, and I fully concur. So why are C4s prices so high, especially as 997 prices are in the mid 40's/GT3s are in the mid 40s and turbos are in the early 40s now.? Why do people even consider them apart from just for the looks?

Spend 5k less and buy a facelift C4/C2 (faster/lighter), or spend slightly more money and buy a turbo with a better engine, and tuneable to the-sky's-the-limit.

The running costs are also pretty much the same as they have the same running gear. The turbo/C4s minor service is the same price. The major service is almost double for the tt but that includes spark plugs which needs to be be done on the C4s every 48k or 4 years. All the service parts are the same, and I've been quoted the exact same insurance premium on my Carrera as an 03 turbo and an 03 MKII GT3.
This does not take into account what I expect to be less depreciation on the tt and better reliability (GT1 based engine)

IMO the market is pricing in a ~5k premium for those looks!

Rant over.

I will now step away from the keyboard.

 

[Dylan1]

didnt mean to shatter your hopes for an early seat in a TT richard[]
some day soon...[]

 

[Robertb]

ORIGINAL: stevomepy

ORIGINAL: Robertb

IMO, C4S looks better- full width rear reflector, no rear airvents.
C4S sounds better- no PSE for Turbo.
Most of the time, on the road, the C4S's performance is more than adequate.
Like for like, C4S is cheaper to buy, run and insure.
Any rational person if cost was not in the equation would probably have the Turbo, but try finding a decent one, or one at all for under £40k which will buy you a lovely 4S.

If you really want find you want the extra poke, then upgrade with a Evo MS supercharger, 470 hp!

but anyone person with a budget in mind who has just bought a C4S because its cheap would have just spent alot of money on an Evo MS supercharger. If you had put this money on top of your original budget then surely you may aswell have bought the turbo

I suppose- my point is this- I use my C4S most days, clocking up nearly 2k miles a month. I can think of no occasions when I've felt the 4S is slow, and the extra fuel economy means I can get further without filling up (so perversely actually making a long journey faster in the real world!). However, if one day I have a change of work circumstances and feel that the extra poke would be fun, then I can get it supercharged. As said above, I prefer the looks of the 4S, and the noise (which are permanent benefits, as opposed to enjoying the Turbo's extra grunt which is at best temporary and probably illegal!)

With regard to the value, the wide body 993s continue to command a premium vs the standard cars, I see no reason why the 996 won't be the same.

EVO magazine voted the C4S the best 911 currently on sale (inc the turbo, but pre mk 2 GT3) at the time. They are much more than simply a "Turbo without a turbo", maybe the set-up, dunno, but they just seem beautifully resolved for real-world fast road use. Sometimes, less is more.

 

[Diesel130]

ORIGINAL: Robertb
... Sometimes, less is more.

Yes, I must say that having had turbo's on my last few cars (quattro, celica t4, imprezza and fiat coupe), I really like the smooth pick up of my normally aspirated 996 C2, compared to the .. nothing, nothing, nothing, whoaa-here-we-go turbo experience..

So, on reflection, having suggested the turbo to this guy a week or so again, perhaps Richard and I should tell everyone from now on to buy a C4S instead of a TT, that way, the C4S prices will stay high, TT prices will really plummet and Richard and I will be able to buy a nice 01 model in 2 year's time for sub 30K ...

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Sounds like a plan to me! We just need Rodney to keep quiet too! []

 

[Diesel130]

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

PCGB Member

Posts: 997
Joined: 2/5/2003
From: London
Status: offline

Rodney's made exactly 997 posts! Maybe that's a sign ??

 

[Dylan1]

good to see you like your car[]
still cant see the 996 ever holding on to value like 993 tho-just not as beautifully zuffenhausen(imho)

 

[Dylan1]

ORIGINAL: Diesel130

ORIGINAL: Robertb
... Sometimes, less is more.

Yes, I must say that having had turbo's on my last few cars (quattro, celica t4, imprezza and fiat coupe), I really like the smooth pick up of my normally aspirated 996 C2, compared to the .. nothing, nothing, nothing, whoaa-here-we-go turbo experience..

So, on reflection, having suggested the turbo to this guy a week or so again, perhaps Richard and I should tell everyone from now on to buy a C4S instead of a TT, that way, the C4S prices will stay high, TT prices will really plummet and Richard and I will be able to buy a nice 01 model in 2 year's time for sub 30K ...

a cunning plan baldrick[]

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Richard,

I am trying! I held back for 1.5 whole pages on this thread before I piped up![8D]
Now a well timed £5 in my 'turbo depreciation shocker' account would keep me off these threads for a good while![]

 

[Robertb]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

good to see you like your car[]
still cant see the 996 ever holding on to value like 993 tho-just not as beautifully zuffenhausen(imho)

I'm sure you're right, last of the air cooled and everything... I did agonise for a while before selling my peachy 993 Targa for that reason. In a way though, the fact that the 996 is not a Porsche 'classic' (mind you, what modern Porsche ever is) means that it can be used an enjoyed safe in the knowledge that it's shedding £ no matter how few miles you keep on it!

 

[Dylan1]

as you say-do what they are meant for-drive em[]

 

[stevomepy]

ORIGINAL: Robertb

ORIGINAL: stevomepy

ORIGINAL: Robertb

IMO, C4S looks better- full width rear reflector, no rear airvents.
C4S sounds better- no PSE for Turbo.
Most of the time, on the road, the C4S's performance is more than adequate.
Like for like, C4S is cheaper to buy, run and insure.
Any rational person if cost was not in the equation would probably have the Turbo, but try finding a decent one, or one at all for under £40k which will buy you a lovely 4S.

If you really want find you want the extra poke, then upgrade with a Evo MS supercharger, 470 hp!

but anyone person with a budget in mind who has just bought a C4S because its cheap would have just spent alot of money on an Evo MS supercharger. If you had put this money on top of your original budget then surely you may aswell have bought the turbo

I suppose- my point is this- I use my C4S most days, clocking up nearly 2k miles a month. I can think of no occasions when I've felt the 4S is slow, and the extra fuel economy means I can get further without filling up (so perversely actually making a long journey faster in the real world!). However, if one day I have a change of work circumstances and feel that the extra poke would be fun, then I can get it supercharged. As said above, I prefer the looks of the 4S, and the noise (which are permanent benefits, as opposed to enjoying the Turbo's extra grunt which is at best temporary and probably illegal!)

With regard to the value, the wide body 993s continue to command a premium vs the standard cars, I see no reason why the 996 won't be the same.

EVO magazine voted the C4S the best 911 currently on sale (inc the turbo, but pre mk 2 GT3) at the time. They are much more than simply a "Turbo without a turbo", maybe the set-up, dunno, but they just seem beautifully resolved for real-world fast road use. Sometimes, less is more.

I suppose that this is also true but TBH I probably wont be using the porsche for very many long commutes for work etc. In fact i wont be the one driving it to work at all. My wife will be ([]) as it is not practical enough for my work. More of a toy for the weekend really. With this is mind I am now convinced by many people on this forum that the turbo will be the better choice.

 

[Dylan1]

plus your wife will have a permagrin[]


no rude comments

 

[Guest]

Found this post very usefull...as i was thinking CS4 or the Turbo

 

[Guest]

Bought C4S Cab last Sept, 1st Porsche, love it, already drive too fast (ahem, when appropriate), can't imagine what level of self control I'd leave on the roadside if I was to get a tt. Can't even bring myself to go and test one just in case. It's my daily ride, still has the look back factor for me. Speed isn't everything, it's the size of the grin from within.

All that said, life's short, if it feels right do it, no matter what anyone else thinks. And in the profound words of the No Fear crew, 'It's not the speed that kills, it's the sudden stop at the end!'

 

[sawood12]

For me it's not speed thats the buzz it's accellaration and for accellaration you cannot beat a turbo charged car. I've been in normally aspirated cars that are faster than my 944 turbo but i'm always left cold and dissapointed afterwards as they simply don't feel as fast or as exhilirating - you don't get that kick up the backside that you do with a turbo. I fear I might get bored of an N/A car quickly as I get used to the performance and will then start regretting not going the turbo route. Had a good scour round the internet earlier today and was tripping up over the number of sub £40k 996 turbo's, the vast majority around 50k miles with full Porsche dealer service histories, all looked nice and clean from the photo's with nothing suspicious so definately not tatty dogs of cars. I can feel the temptation welling within.

 

[TJ101]

Mm, very interesting,, All I can speak is from experience,, Ran a 964 3.6T,, excellent drivers car,had for over 2 years,, but was using less and less, needed a more everyday use car ,, Replaced with a C4S, good car,more practical,, BUT, just did not do it for me, missed the extra performance and ultimate driving pleasure !!, so sold it after only 3/4 months, and got the TT, now very happy, In my view, no contest, even if it did not have the X50 kit