rejecting my Porsche 997 turbo

garyw · Mar 24, 2012

I'm gutted to read this and to find another Porsche owner having such a mockery of ownership- from new!

We refused a car that my wife purchased, a cabriolet that the roof kept leaking on us- we gave them the 3 chance to fix it(each time writing a letter) and the final time we said we were rejecting the car due to ongoing issues with it. After a lot of discussions with the dealership and a knock on the purchase cost as we did have to accept that it was sort of fit for purpose- as in being a mode of safe transport during the time we had it.
This was after six months of ownership bearing in mind it only leaked when it rained...
They had 28 days to put it right or replace it but I'm sure the legal eagles here will tell you that bit.

If you've set the solicitors loose then I guess that stops the dealer from speaking directly to you. [

]

It pains me that the forum rules dictate that we have to remove the name of the supplying dealer but from past experience by removing the name it allows this thread to stay alive and be of benefit to yourself and other potential owners in a similar situation- and I applaud you for your understanding in such this situation.
Sadly your question regarding free speech went out the door with the sue society and solicitors... [:'(]

I hope the dealer does see sense in the end, we know they read these forums..

garyw

themadmcgill · Mar 24, 2012

thanks Gary, much appreciated

harry · Mar 24, 2012

Can you use post codes? [:-]

adrian996 · Mar 25, 2012

What a strange reaction to the seemingly extremely poor customer service that a hard working 60 year old man has received from one of the OPC's in the UK.

True, we only (currently) have one side of this tale of what appears to be a horrendous customer experience.

Edited-behave Adrian!

davey j · Mar 31, 2012

I am in the motor trade and run my own small import business so have some experience with dealing with complaints. From memory i'm pretty certain that you can reject a brand new dealer supplied car for up to 6 months providing you have reasonable grounds to do so. If the car has been bought via the finance route i'd been speaking to them over the garage as they are in the position of reclaiming their funds via the dealer.
If i sell a car via finance and the customer starts 'screaming' with the finance house then the finance house will come down on me!
Make sure you use a decent solicitor who has experience with dealing with the motor trade not just the usual trips & fall type person.
I hope it all gets sorted out for you, i'd be furious if this had happened to me!!
Dave.

dereksharpuk · Mar 31, 2012

Well, as you may know, I rejected a Porsche 911 on the grounds of 'unfit for purpose'. To be fair to the dealership (but not Porsche Cars UK), they did everything within their power to fix the problem, but failed. In the end they refunded my money, but I suppose they were sweetened by the fact that I purchased another 911.

Just a reminder that the Sale of Goods Act means that your argument is with the OPC not the importer. Sometimes I feel sorry for the OPC as the fault lies elsewhere.

adrian996 · Mar 31, 2012

Sometimes I feel sorry for the OPC as the fault lies elsewhere.

Not exactly. The OPC accept or reject their vehicles on delivery. They're all (supposedly) checked when they come off the transporter and if they pass the checks then the cars become the property of the recipient (OPC) from that point.

So they either missed all of this little lot or it was done post-delivery. Either way the Official Porsche Centre has failed not only to initially spot this but has also then tried to sell it on as a fit for purpose sale item.

themadmcgill · Apr 1, 2012

Thanks for all your replys chaps,
Just a quick update. Everything has been returned and confirmed within 6 months of ownership so I don't think there will be a problem there. I received a letter from the dp stating they had received all keys and relevant paperwork back for the car but would still not accept rejection. Im not to concerned. I should hear back from the finance company next week through my solicitor so I will certainly keep you all updated.
After listening to all of your advice I have contacted a couple of car magazines as well as watchdog. I am gutted really as even if I do end up getting a refund there is no other vehicle I would prefer to own. Ideally I would prefer for them just to replace the car.
Thankyou all very much for your advice and support on this matter.

adrian996 · Apr 1, 2012

Keep us posted Ryan.

Have to say that I still find this all pretty incredible though.........especially at this level of marque. Even if the car had been a used one it would have been hard to swallow - but a brand new car...?

I'm off to foot of our stairs. [

]

chrishak · Apr 1, 2012

If the car had off-colour or non-matching panels whan you collected the it, it had almost certainly been repaired either in the production plant or by the dealers. If those panels have had further "rectification" work, there is a very good chance that the paint thickness exceeds the specified maximum - in which case the body is SCRAP.

You need to find the maximum film build specified by Porsche's paint suppliers (Glasurit, I believe) then get somebody to check your car in multiple locations, with an elcometer. If the maximum thickness is exceeded anywhere, then you have a watertight legal case.

I was the production superintendant in a vehicle production facility and we regularly scrapped body shells due to excessive film build - and quite rightly so because paint cracking and falling off is not good for product image - and I wasn't building Porsche's!

harry · Apr 1, 2012

Just a question... Does fit for purpose mean fit to drive in which case I assume the car can be driven? Does that mean you are stuck with the car? I sincerely hope not as the car you have ordered is very expensive and I too will be disappointed if a new car turns out like yours. I would have rejected the car at the outset if there was such a problem but hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say..

chrishak · Apr 1, 2012

Fit for purpose applies to all aspects of a vehicles specification - and in this case, the specification does not include the paint falling off, cracking, de-laminating etc!

themadmcgill · Apr 1, 2012

Hi, in answer to your question, not sure. I know the sales of good act 1979 states that a item must be to a satisfactory standard and finish. This includes paint and finish. I had the paint depths read on the vehicle months ago and they did vary all over the vehicle.
The problem is I do not know enough about the law and our rights so for this reason a solicitor is now handling the case.
Luckily the dealer received Plenty of emails from myself and i also got them to write some of the defects down and sign the handover sheet which proves there has been problems with the car from day one. I hope they see sense.

dereksharpuk · Apr 1, 2012

I believe that the Sale of Goods act does have an allowance for quality & expectation. For example, one can expect better quality from a £100K car than from a £10K car.

chrishak · Apr 2, 2012

ORIGINAL: themadmcgill

Hi, in answer to your question, not sure. I know the sales of good act 1979 states that a item must be to a satisfactory standard and finish. This includes paint and finish. I had the paint depths read on the vehicle months ago and they did vary all over the vehicle.
The problem is I do not know enough about the law and our rights so for this reason a solicitor is now handling the case.
Luckily the dealer received Plenty of emails from myself and i also got them to write some of the defects down and sign the handover sheet which proves there has been problems with the car from day one. I hope they see sense.

Paint depths will always vary, it can't be avoided, but they must always be within spec for a given area. If the maximum is exceeded then you have a strong legal case.

marlin · Apr 2, 2012

ORIGINAL: adrian996

What a strange reaction to the seemingly extremely poor customer service that a hard working 60 year old man has received from one of the OPC's in the UK.

True, we only (currently) have one side of this tale of what appears to be a horrendous customer experience.

Edited-behave Adrian!

Unfortunately it's not a strange or isolated matter, I had a excellent relationship with my OPC buying two cars from them from day one of them opening. At that time they were very pleased to have my business, how things changed after they had been open a couple of years and a new principle didn't help.

They lost my business and my sons, so two Turbos servicing repaires lost, happy to say my son has just bought a new Turbo and guess where he didn't buy it from. [8|]

isysman · Apr 7, 2012

I agree completely. My sister bought a bed from a shop a few weeks ago. They messed up delivery and assembly etc. she tried normal routes etc and when it didn't work she got on Twitter and started tearing them a new arsehole. Within an hour they were on the phone and got it all sorted. I don't see why they should be protected here, as I can't see moderators removing the name if we were saying how great they were!

ORIGINAL: themadmcgill

Hi Mike, yes I did put a post on pistonheads, whatever happened to freedom of speech.
If we end up going to court with the problems I will be getting a website made with the full story and out come.
I understand that there is always two sides to a story but I have been completly honest in this post and have all the relevant paper work and emails to
back it up.
I feel that future buyers have the right to know how we have been treated once the dealership had taken our hard earned cash.
thanks for you post m8

tscaptain · Apr 7, 2012

I don't see why they should be protected here, as I can't see moderators removing the name if we were saying how great they were!

3.1 When using this website you agree not to:-

3.1.2 Name companies, or individuals, in relation to accusations of malpractice, fraud or
other criminal or civil offences.

Sorry, we don't make the rules.

Motorhead · Apr 7, 2012

Just a question cap'n.

Would giving the so called "offender's" postcode or town/city constitute a breach of the Club's rules?

I'm just a simple engineer and therefore unable to fathom such legal complexities.

Jeff

pauljmcnulty · Apr 7, 2012

Would giving the so called "offender's" postcode or town/city constitute a breach of the Club's rules?

Yes. Anything so obvious that a company's identity is easy to spot would breach the rules. [&o]

There are two very good reasons why we enforce this, and remember that the rules are always open to improving; if anyone wants to put suggestions to the admin team they can take it to the Board.

Firstly, it's always possible for malicious claims to be made. For instance a competitor posting untrue comments. Of course I'm not saying that's the case here, and it can happen with praising companies as well, but that is less damaging. We have had someone sign up under a false name before to promote their own company, and we've had people with problems that turned out to have far more background info that changed the perspective a lot. Also, the company should have a right to reply in my own opinion, before they were ever to be named.

Secondly, there are very real legal implications with putting things in writing on a public forum, just as in any other printed form. The Club can be held liable for defamatory comments, and more importantly any claim by a poster could be prejudiced if they've named the company all over the internet.

So, the general consensus is that it's essential for the Club and the poster that they don't name or identify companies accused of malpractice or poor service. The one exception seems to be Porsche GB, who often get it in the neck for failing to help with problems!