ROLLING ROAD DAY - DSAUTOMOTIVES 31st MAY
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tj930
New member
It was great to meet up with all you 'PorscheNuts' - I haven't laughed so much in ages. (Probably 'Gallows Humour' - until Jim noticed that blown fuse, I was just thinking, "Oh, Christ, how am I going to get home?" - cheers Jim!)
My brother ported'n'polished the headers when he was meticulously rebuilding the engine, but we were both pleasantly surprised by the 376 figure. Though the Boost Pressure is only about 0.84Bar - so a new spring could get the old girl closer to the magic 400-mark [
]
Maybe the old, red bus is quicker than I thought. On the way home, just passed Silverstone, had some fun with a lightly-modified R34 []
My brother ported'n'polished the headers when he was meticulously rebuilding the engine, but we were both pleasantly surprised by the 376 figure. Though the Boost Pressure is only about 0.84Bar - so a new spring could get the old girl closer to the magic 400-mark [
]Maybe the old, red bus is quicker than I thought. On the way home, just passed Silverstone, had some fun with a lightly-modified R34 [
]ORIGINAL: tj930
It was great to meet up with all you 'PorscheNuts' - I haven't laughed so much in ages. (Probably 'Gallows Humour' - until Jim noticed that blown fuse, I was just thinking, "Oh, Christ, how am I going to get home?" - cheers Jim!)
My brother ported'n'polished the headers when he was meticulously rebuilding the engine, but we were both pleasantly surprised by the 376 figure. Though the Boost Pressure is only about 0.84Bar - so a new spring could get the old girl closer to the magic 400-mark [
Maybe the old, red bus is quicker than I thought. On the way home, just passed Silverstone, had some fun with a lightly-modified R34 [
When i say headers i mean the exhaust manifold not the intake manifold, the stock ones are unnecessarily long and inefficient, a set of B&B style headers will bring the boost on sooner and add some HP. You'd be best to fit a manual or electronic boost controller, the manual controller is cheap as chips and takes seconds to fit, then you have no need to tear down your wastgate, fit something like this http://www.turbologic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=1 You need to sort your fuel out first though, what did your AFR's look like on the dyno? Can you post a graph?
tj930
New member
Yeah, yeah. Sorry, mate - when I said "headers", I ment valves, cams, inlet port and all that..[]
Once my brother had given the Mixture a quarter of a turn with the Allen Key, we got the following:
I take it that this "Manual Controller" goes onto the pipe between the Wastegate and Intercooler?
And, given that the car develops 313.1RWHP - it means that I'm losing 16.7% through the transmission - is this loss not a little bit high? Did anyone get an "at the wheels" figure? (They normally say 12-15%, and more for 4WDs and Autos.)
]Once my brother had given the Mixture a quarter of a turn with the Allen Key, we got the following:
I take it that this "Manual Controller" goes onto the pipe between the Wastegate and Intercooler?
And, given that the car develops 313.1RWHP - it means that I'm losing 16.7% through the transmission - is this loss not a little bit high? Did anyone get an "at the wheels" figure? (They normally say 12-15%, and more for 4WDs and Autos.)
15% for RWD Porsche.
ORIGINAL: tj930
Yeah, yeah. Sorry, mate - when I said "headers", I ment valves, cams, inlet port and all that..[
Once my brother had given the Mixture a quarter of a turn with the Allen Key, we got the following:
I take it that this "Manual Controller" goes onto the pipe between the Wastegate and Intercooler?
And, given that the car develops 313.1RWHP - it means that I'm losing 16.7% through the transmission - is this loss not a little bit high? Did anyone get an "at the wheels" figure? (They normally say 12-15%, and more for 4WDs and Autos.)
Your AFR doesn't look too bad there Tom, the manual controller will allow you to set your boost to whatever you want. 1.o bar will be as much as your engine can handle safely without stronger rod bolts and head studs etc.
The MOST important thing right now is getting control of your AFR, the only way with CIS is with an adjustable WUR and solenoid (or the digital WUR), then you can tune and play as much as you want. Think about better intercooling, and also oil cooling to keep you engine happy and you can have a safe reliable motor.
This was my (930) engine's best state of tune on CIS, this is with B&B style headers, 965 intercooler, ported heads and intake manifold, modified injector blocks, 1.0bar spring, Garrett ball bearing turbo, K&N air filter, 964 cams and a full fresh engine rebuild. On the same dyno some years ago (It was called GForce then). This work cost me over £14k and nearly a year in waiting (I was told it was 497bhp by 9M[
])
As you can see, the standard WUR was just about giving enough fuel for this, it was too lean for comfort but it was almost there. If i knew what i know now i would be taking the advice that i am giving you. Get your WUR modified by Brian, get some good headers, get a better intercooler, get yourself a wide band sensor so you can read your AFR on the road, you can genuinely achieve good 400bhp+ numbers safely, just do your homework
tj930
New member
Jeeze! Reporting 497 when it's "only" 416 is terrible work practise..[&:]
..And I thought DSA's dyno might have been more than a little bit generous by giving my car 376hp.. ..Still, I forgot to mention my ugly, magic, blue pipe into the airbox. ("Worth 20hp to the rear wheels, honest, guv!" [])
Got an interesting email from [FONT=arial"]Steve Schlanger![[FONT=verdana,geneva"]](/forum/styles/default/pcgb/space.gif ". [FONT=verdana,geneva\"]")
at Unwired Tools. Can map 3D Graphs of Control Pressure v Manifold Pressure v RPM - sort of pseudo EFi! But the main problem would be getting the damn thing installed.. Who could do that in the UK?
Also got to get that damn turbocharger-to-IC pipe sorted out, so sent over a picture of your 965-Intercooled engine to my tune-up guy in Lincolnshire in the hope that he can get one of those pipes.
Noticed that you've got a graph of 438.9 - if that's rear-wheel horsepower(?), it means that you're running at 15.7% losses through the transmission, since 100 x (1 - (438.9/520.6)) = 15.693%
..And I thought DSA's dyno might have been more than a little bit generous by giving my car 376hp.. ..Still, I forgot to mention my ugly, magic, blue pipe into the airbox. ("Worth 20hp to the rear wheels, honest, guv!" [
])Got an interesting email from [FONT=arial"]Steve Schlanger
at Unwired Tools. Can map 3D Graphs of Control Pressure v Manifold Pressure v RPM - sort of pseudo EFi! But the main problem would be getting the damn thing installed.. Who could do that in the UK?Also got to get that damn turbocharger-to-IC pipe sorted out, so sent over a picture of your 965-Intercooled engine to my tune-up guy in Lincolnshire in the hope that he can get one of those pipes.
Noticed that you've got a graph of 438.9 - if that's rear-wheel horsepower(?), it means that you're running at 15.7% losses through the transmission, since 100 x (1 - (438.9/520.6)) = 15.693%
You could fit the Digital WUR yourself, or your brother could fit it with his eyes shut. All of the standard pipes just hook up to the new unit, then you just have to mount the control box somewhere. They have a stock 930 base map available to download on their website, you just need to have a wide band sensor that logs your afr and ideally rpm, then go out and tune it in slowly. You can connect wirelessly to the digital WUR using a dongle, so your brother can sit in the passenger seat with a laptop and make the adjustments, you can change the control pressure for every 250rpm from 1000 to 7000rpm. You'll set your afr at mid 14's whilst cruising, then at the onset of boost you want it to drop rapidly down to 12.0 and stay at that level right up to the red line, you might even want to go to 11.8 right up the top to be double sure.
You will find fitting and setting up the WUR isn't as big a job as you think, you'll need to borrow or buy a wide band sensor, I have an Innovate LM1 that you can borrow but you would have to weld a bung in the exhaust for the sensor, then just block it off with a bolt when you're done, this unit will log everything and you can pull up a graph on the computer, then just raise or lower the control pressure through the digital WUR for each portion of RPM until you get the AFR's that you are looking for. None of the above logs boost, you will have to see where that comes in visually and know where you want the mixture to get richer. It isn't rocket science honest!
Where did you find a picture of my old engine? The pipe on that is a stock 965 intercooler hose, available from anywhere that sells pork parts. As always it isn't peanuts, i think it's about £90 or something, expensive bit of rubber I'd let you have my old one but as i said i have promised all of my 930 performance parts to someone already and he'll need it. Keep us informed how you get on with the Digital WUR, maybe start a new thread
You will find fitting and setting up the WUR isn't as big a job as you think, you'll need to borrow or buy a wide band sensor, I have an Innovate LM1 that you can borrow but you would have to weld a bung in the exhaust for the sensor, then just block it off with a bolt when you're done, this unit will log everything and you can pull up a graph on the computer, then just raise or lower the control pressure through the digital WUR for each portion of RPM until you get the AFR's that you are looking for. None of the above logs boost, you will have to see where that comes in visually and know where you want the mixture to get richer. It isn't rocket science honest!
Where did you find a picture of my old engine? The pipe on that is a stock 965 intercooler hose, available from anywhere that sells pork parts. As always it isn't peanuts, i think it's about £90 or something, expensive bit of rubber
I'd let you have my old one but as i said i have promised all of my 930 performance parts to someone already and he'll need it. Keep us informed how you get on with the Digital WUR, maybe start a new threadSimon thanks for organising and good to meet those who were there early, looks like I missed the fun and the big numbers later !!!!. 600HP looks there for the taking. Will keep my eyes open for those making the trek to Le Mans next week.
Finally, Simon could you revise my figure to 330HP, that's what it says on the chart. mind you I will have to take some of Jon's tips to stay ahead. Sorry Moog.
Lincoln.
Finally, Simon could you revise my figure to 330HP, that's what it says on the chart. mind you I will have to take some of Jon's tips to stay ahead. Sorry Moog.
Lincoln.
tj930
New member
Thanks for all your help and advice, Jonathan. Forget to tell you that, jeeze, when you left DSA, it looked so fast!..
I Think my brother would rather I spent the money on a new muffler to try to free up the higher rev range. "Hmmmm, great way to get it sounding like a tuned-up Fiat Punto!..."
I saw your old engine the other day in another thread on the forum. Everybody was posting pic's of their cars and I happened to see one of yours, after it had been detailed, along with some shots of the engine... So I just right clicked on your image above, saw that you use Photobucket and had a look about at http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q320/jbl930 You know, there's somebody who looks a lot like you, standing right next to former Ferrari Super Tactition, Ross Brawn..You didn't build his staircase, did you ? []
As regards the data logging, I suppose it's a case of Analogue-To-Digital conversion and could simply use the Switches' signals? I'm guessing that the electrical signals to Boost Guage and Tachometer are 12V low-current from the Boost sender and RPM sender? (Jeeze, showing my age here! But the last time I did stuff like this was with a BBC Model B & Commodore Amiga!)
I think I'll ask Cambridge's Nathan what he knows.. He's a clever chappy when it comes to electrics, computers and old, German, rear-engined cars []
I Think my brother would rather I spent the money on a new muffler to try to free up the higher rev range. "Hmmmm, great way to get it sounding like a tuned-up Fiat Punto!..."
I saw your old engine the other day in another thread on the forum. Everybody was posting pic's of their cars and I happened to see one of yours, after it had been detailed, along with some shots of the engine... So I just right clicked on your image above, saw that you use Photobucket and had a look about at http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q320/jbl930 You know, there's somebody who looks a lot like you, standing right next to former Ferrari Super Tactition, Ross Brawn..You didn't build his staircase, did you ? [
]As regards the data logging, I suppose it's a case of Analogue-To-Digital conversion and could simply use the Switches' signals? I'm guessing that the electrical signals to Boost Guage and Tachometer are 12V low-current from the Boost sender and RPM sender? (Jeeze, showing my age here! But the last time I did stuff like this was with a BBC Model B & Commodore Amiga!)
I think I'll ask Cambridge's Nathan what he knows.. He's a clever chappy when it comes to electrics, computers and old, German, rear-engined cars [
]Lincoln - my mistake when I typed in the numbers. Your result corrected below:-
Lincoln - Porsche 930 (964 cams and 1 bar boost) - 330BHP
Phelix - Porsche 993TT (K16/26 turbos, and ECU) - 456BHP
Phil 993 - Porsche 996T (X50, Miltek Exhaust, remap) - 524BHP
Cueman - Porsche 996T (Manthey remap, Exhaust) - 469BHP
JBL 930 - Porsche 930 (993TT engine, "modifed") - 520BHP
James E - Porsche 965 (3.4L, EFI highly modified) - 551BHP
Proenca - Porsche 996T (standard) - 433 BHP
Madmoog - Porsche 964 (3.8L non-turbo) modified) - 322BHP
tj930 - Porsche 930 (SC cams, K27 Turbo) - 376BHP
Jim - Porsche 964 (3.6L non-turbo...to get GT1 engine!) - 264BHP
Hoping to hear more on my 930 tomorrow.....let's see
Lincoln - Porsche 930 (964 cams and 1 bar boost) - 330BHP
Phelix - Porsche 993TT (K16/26 turbos, and ECU) - 456BHP
Phil 993 - Porsche 996T (X50, Miltek Exhaust, remap) - 524BHP
Cueman - Porsche 996T (Manthey remap, Exhaust) - 469BHP
JBL 930 - Porsche 930 (993TT engine, "modifed") - 520BHP
James E - Porsche 965 (3.4L, EFI highly modified) - 551BHP
Proenca - Porsche 996T (standard) - 433 BHP
Madmoog - Porsche 964 (3.8L non-turbo) modified) - 322BHP
tj930 - Porsche 930 (SC cams, K27 Turbo) - 376BHP
Jim - Porsche 964 (3.6L non-turbo...to get GT1 engine!) - 264BHP
Hoping to hear more on my 930 tomorrow.....let's see
Tom
You're welcome, if anyone can benefit from the mistakes i've endured then it'll help me sleep. Yes the car is quick, shame you couldn't come for a quick blast, i did a data-logged run yesterday, 60-130mph which seams to be the new performance measurement, I managed 7.75 seconds with a full tank of fuel and two up, total weight a bit over 1500kgs. To put that into some sort of understandable format, an SLR McLaren takes 8.9, and a 993 Ruf Turbo R takes 9.1, It's viciously quick!!
The dyno run i posted earlier with all of the mods that i listed was still running the standard muffler, granted the engine would breath a bit better with a Fabspeed or similar one, but it isn't the first place to spend your money, and it certainly isn't holding you back until you go a good bit further. I fitted a brand new fabspeed duel out muffler and the Imagine auto airbox about 250 miles before i blew the engine up, gutted :-(
After you've sorted your fuel you should be thinking intercooler, then headers and then muffler. I'll stop now matey as you'll have to make your own mind up. The 930 section on Rennlist or even the same area on Pelican is rammed with info, go and do some research and come to your own conclusions. Hope it's still running well for you, if i can help give me a shout
JBL
P.S: Yes that's me with Ross, i'm friends with his daughter and her husband, he's a lovely bloke. I'm still trying to wangle pit lane passes
Thought i'd post the link as Tom has put two dots at the end of his link, Chec k out the size of Ross' hands, his thumb is the size of my head, and i'm 6'....
You're welcome, if anyone can benefit from the mistakes i've endured then it'll help me sleep. Yes the car is quick, shame you couldn't come for a quick blast, i did a data-logged run yesterday, 60-130mph which seams to be the new performance measurement, I managed 7.75 seconds with a full tank of fuel and two up, total weight a bit over 1500kgs. To put that into some sort of understandable format, an SLR McLaren takes 8.9, and a 993 Ruf Turbo R takes 9.1, It's viciously quick!!
The dyno run i posted earlier with all of the mods that i listed was still running the standard muffler, granted the engine would breath a bit better with a Fabspeed or similar one, but it isn't the first place to spend your money, and it certainly isn't holding you back until you go a good bit further. I fitted a brand new fabspeed duel out muffler and the Imagine auto airbox about 250 miles before i blew the engine up, gutted :-(
After you've sorted your fuel you should be thinking intercooler, then headers and then muffler. I'll stop now matey as you'll have to make your own mind up. The 930 section on Rennlist or even the same area on Pelican is rammed with info, go and do some research and come to your own conclusions. Hope it's still running well for you, if i can help give me a shout
JBL
P.S: Yes that's me with Ross, i'm friends with his daughter and her husband, he's a lovely bloke. I'm still trying to wangle pit lane passes
Thought i'd post the link as Tom has put two dots at the end of his link, Chec k out the size of Ross' hands, his thumb is the size of my head, and i'm 6'....
proenca
New member
David at DS automotives did inspire confidence - upon my car tooting around in the garage he came to me and said "it does smell a bit of coolant , maybe you have a leak ?"
got a call yesterday from the OPC which did found a leak in the radiators and are replacing them - fortunatly the extended warranty is kicking in and paying for it
now that plus a major plus almost every damn option in the menu and some unpexpected control arms and bushes replacement, seems that Cargraphic Exahust will have to wait... a bit Afterall a 3k bill in repairs is not nice
got a call yesterday from the OPC which did found a leak in the radiators and are replacing them - fortunatly the extended warranty is kicking in and paying for it
now that plus a major plus almost every damn option in the menu and some unpexpected control arms and bushes replacement, seems that Cargraphic Exahust will have to wait... a bit
Afterall a 3k bill in repairs is not nice Hi Jon,
Been there done that; there was a fair bit of dust and grit on the outside but the inside was clean save for some oil.
Cheers,
Felix
Been there done that; there was a fair bit of dust and grit on the outside but the inside was clean save for some oil.
Cheers,
Felix
Take a look here...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=416273
As for the logging, I think it's 5v but I'm not too sure.
Yeah, I've read all of the pages []
]
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