Saratoga Sunroof - Bulk-Buy

[Chrishazle]

Posted on 968uk at 9pm tonight by sixeighter, may be Chris Munro above :

"Picked my up today. Fixings are total crap. Mushroom disintegrated. Didn't even try the other one.

The good news is that the roof looks great and also that we find this out now because even if you manage to fit it first time without a failure it is obvious that these. Arches would not stand future removal and replacement which makes them not fit for purpose. You certainly could not travel at any speed with confidence knowing this weakness. Wouldn't have thought it too difficult to make something better."

 

[GlennS]

even if over tight they shouldn't break this easily, I certainly wouldn't drive with the roof open using these catches...hell I wouldn't fit the roof at all until this is sorted, last thing you want is the car getting damaged by a flying roof panel at speed....

No argument there. I fear these things have transformed from "unicorn" to "white elephant" as they're not currently usable. I wonder whether Pilkington will have the inclination to remedy the problem; they're not a big market item, after all. It may be more economic for them to simply write the whole deal off.

 

[mick43]

The person I feel for the most is Tom (944Fripp) he most certainly didn't know what he was letting himself in for when initiating this endeavour.

I assume from previous posts it is now down to individuals to start their claim with Pilkington - due to 'un-fit for purpose' goods ?

ie.

1. Timeline for fix and rectification ?

2. Is full refund being offered now, or do we have to wait for their investigation to be completed by when ?

Need to know above prior to any claim against credit card company if <1> & <2> unsatisfactory.

 

[PSH]

If a fixing survives it's very possible to make new stronger ones...

 

[GlennS]

The person I feel for the most is Tom (944Fripp) he most certainly didn't know what he was letting himself in for when initiating this endeavour.

I assume from previous posts it is now down to individuals to start their claim with Pilkington - due to 'un-fit for purpose' goods ?

ie.

1. Timeline for fix and rectification ?

2. Is full refund being offered now, or do we have to wait for their investigation to be completed by when ?

Need to know above prior to any claim against credit card company if <1> & <2> unsatisfactory.

If you wish to return your sunroof for a refund (rather than wait / hope for a solution from Pilkington), there is no need to go down the tricky "unfit for purpose route. I believe the legal "cooling off period" under the regulations for "distance selling" would apply, since we all bought the sunroofs "over the phone" or "online" in some fashion.

"Shopping from home is also known as distance selling and includes purchases made by e-mail, fax, telephone, internet shopping and mail order. Distance selling involves communication between a trader and a consumer where they are not in each other's physical presence."

" Cooling-off period

You are entitled to a cooling-off period of 14 days, which begins on the day that you receive the goods. In the case of a service, the cooling-off period begins on the day the contract for distance selling was concluded.

In the case of digital content, the cooling-off period expires when the downloading or streaming starts.

During the cooling-off period, you can cancel a distance contract without giving a reason and without incurring charges or penalties, other than possible charges incurred in returning the goods.

If a trader fails to provide you with information on the right to cancel, the cooling-off period is extended to 12 months from the date it would have expired if the information had been provided. If the trader provides the information within this 12-month period, the cooling-off period expires within 14 days of the consumer receiving it."

G.

 

[jonnyporsche]

Just received this email from Nick I presume others have as well

[font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]Hello all,[/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"] [/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]I think it easier to respond to you all at once regarding the issue with the fastening clips.[/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"] [/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]I have this morning received some panels back here at the factory to inspect, I can now understand your concerns the fixing clips do appear to be somewhat poor, I infact broke 2 off this morning in the 6 I tested.[/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"] [/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]Clearly I need to investigate this a little further with my colleagues in the states, initial thoughts are to get replacement fixings sent over and simply swap them over but at this point I don’t have any more info.[/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]I understand that this is frustrating; rest assured it is also for me having taken 9 months to secure them and now we find issues with them.[/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"] [/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]Once I have some news ill come back to you all, until then please bear with me.[/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"] [/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]Regards[/font][/font] [font="calibri,sans-serif"][font="tahoma,sans-serif"]Nick[/font][/font]

 

[GlennS]

Indeed. It's always nice when a manufacturer can reproduce the fault. It saves all kinds of nasty arguments [] So now we are back in a "waiting pattern again".

 

[blade7]

If a fixing survives it's very possible to make new stronger ones...

Sharpen the cutting tool Pete...

 

[PSH]

Haha...believe me if I owned one of these roofs that's exactly what I would be doing...

If a fixing survives it's very possible to make new stronger ones...

Sharpen the cutting tool Pete...

Haha...believe me if I owned one of these roofs that's exactly what I would be doing...

 

[944Fripp]

I picked mine up and deliberately snapped one of them (I made Nick aware that I was going to do this). It is monkey metal indeed!

As I run an industrial design company with many good suppliers, my local machining supplier (2 mins walk) is making me up some replacements in ali. For the cost of delivery (I picked mine up from my local depot saving this cost) all 4 will be ready for me on Wednesday. Bit of Hammerite Satin black and I'll have my Saratoga on by next weekend! []

I'm going to see what Nick comes up with too as they are easy to take off and replace.

 

[bumperblue]

Quick message to Tom (944Fripp) just to say thanks for sorting the group buy. The sunroofs look absolutely brilliant and I think really enhanced the look. Shame they fixings have a problem which I am sure Pilkingtons will sort out. It seems from the e-mail received from Nick they are very aware of the issue. Hopefully pilkingtons are just down at the local machine shop having 80 odd mushrooms turned out of solid material and sent out to the lucky sunroof owners. Doesn't seem like a big problem really.

Ian

 

[GlennS]

I picked mine up and deliberately snapped one of them (I made Nick aware that I was going to do this). It is monkey metal indeed!

As I run an industrial design company with many good suppliers, my local machining supplier (2 mins walk) is making me up some replacements in ali. For the cost of delivery (I picked mine up from my local depot saving this cost) all 4 will be ready for me on Wednesday. Bit of Hammerite Satin black and I'll have my Saratoga on by next weekend! []

I'm going to see what Nick comes up with too as they are easy to take off and replace.

If they do a good job, pass your local machining supplier's details on to Nick. They might get an order out of it.

 

[944Fripp]

I picked mine up and deliberately snapped one of them (I made Nick aware that I was going to do this). It is monkey metal indeed!

As I run an industrial design company with many good suppliers, my local machining supplier (2 mins walk) is making me up some replacements in ali. For the cost of delivery (I picked mine up from my local depot saving this cost) all 4 will be ready for me on Wednesday. Bit of Hammerite Satin black and I'll have my Saratoga on by next weekend! []

I'm going to see what Nick comes up with too as they are easy to take off and replace.

If they do a good job, pass your local machining supplier's details on to Nick. They might get an order out of it.

I actually suggested this to Nick months back when he was waiting on his american colleagues to do this and he said no at the time. I've just suggested it to him again and already confirmed the volume price for 160 units.

 

[944Fripp]

Quick message to Tom (944Fripp) just to say thanks for sorting the group buy. The sunroofs look absolutely brilliant and I think really enhanced the look. Shame they fixings have a problem which I am sure Pilkingtons will sort out. It seems from the e-mail received from Nick they are very aware of the issue. Hopefully pilkingtons are just down at the local machine shop having 80 odd mushrooms turned out of solid material and sent out to the lucky sunroof owners. Doesn't seem like a big problem really.

Ian

Thanks Ian, no problem...it's been....er emotional! []

Shame that it hasn't reached a conclusion yet! Hopefully the ayre getting 160 made....there are 4 of these rather rubbish fittings on each roof!

 

[944Scott]

Quick message to Tom (944Fripp) just to say thanks for sorting the group buy. The sunroofs look absolutely brilliant and I think really enhanced the look. Shame they fixings have a problem which I am sure Pilkingtons will sort out. It seems from the e-mail received from Nick they are very aware of the issue. Hopefully pilkingtons are just down at the local machine shop having 80 odd mushrooms turned out of solid material and sent out to the lucky sunroof owners. Doesn't seem like a big problem really.

Ian

Thanks Ian, no problem...it's been....er emotional! []

Shame that it hasn't reached a conclusion yet! Hopefully the ayre getting 160 made....there are 4 of these rather rubbish fittings on each roof!

Fingers crossed they take you up on it. I have not collected my roof yet (I've not been told its arrived yet either) After Nicks e mail today I was considering asking for my money back as I have paid on credit card and don't see why I should be paying interest on something I do not have or cannot use, this doesn't mean I no longer want it I do but given the above I think I will hold out a little longer before making a decision (not another nine months though!)

 

[Chrishazle]

Well, the original thought was that they'd be ready for summer - looks like they could be, but 2017 not 2016!!

Seems ridiculous that, after the original fixing problem in USA a few years ago, that Pilks can mess up this order with a same or similar problem. Shameful really for a company of the expertise and reputation of Pilkingtons!!

 

[tref]

I thought I would try mine, so I could show it off to our register secretary and anyone else interested at the workers' conference. I was very gentle clipping it down, and still broke one mushroom. Looking at the remains, I don't think there is much thread engagement - maybe a couple of turns? Not ideal for soft material - well not for any in fact. I was really pushed for time, but my thoughts were that there is room to extend the thread length too.

I wouldn't be happy with two threads in aluminium, never mind mazak.

However... Bearing g in mind Pilkington's area of expertise is glass, they are reliant on which ever engineer designed it... And likely go back when they need to be re-engineered. If they gave them that little attention, or wish to avoid admitting they are a poor design - it wouldn't be the first time when pressed I have seen a product with a known fault shipped out in order to complete their obligations.

I shouldn't have to, but bits of metal I can make, big sheets of curved glass I can't!

 

[944Fripp]

I noticed the thread engagement. My plan is to try the bare Ali parts I am having made up first. If the thread engagement is poor then there are 3 options. I can reduce the diameter of the mushroom (there is a significant overlap) by machining down the total height of the mushroom thereby increasing the length of the shank (not sure you would get away with this kind of talk on a number of other forums) or I can reduce the total height of the two plastic inserts that sit either side of the glass. The thread is a pretty standard thread so a small height change will add significant bite.

There are quite a number of spacers too so the 3rd option is to increase the ID of one or two of the spacers.

We'll get there!

More to follow.

 

[JamieMac]

Mine came today so I thought I'd at least have a look at it. I tried the catches carefully out of the box and decided people were obviously just being too ham fisted with them.

The glass panel looks beautiful though.

I did notice the centre tab on my roof is slightly wonky. []

Anyway, dropped it into the roof and every so carefully closed the first catch.... PING!

To to add insult to injury, I dropped the catch so most of the washers fell down the side of the seat so I still need to fish a couple out in the daylight.

Yep, absolutely shocking design. I'm guessing the numerous washers in each side is the modification we've all been waiting months to be implemented??

Have now got to find somewhere to store the mahoosive box, somewhere away from the kids so they wont be tempted to try and use it as a trampoline!!

 

[John Sims]

I would be very cautious in reducing any packing between glass and fixings as glass can be very fickle. It will be as hard as nails, and resilient to almost anything, then a tiny surface nick or side pressure cause it to go.

I am assuming these are toughened not laminated?