The suspension saga continues - Bilstein Escort Cup ?
- Thread starter mike220
- Start date
frogisland
New member
I reindexed my car myself (c10 hours the first time), and 'simply' slapped on Bilstein Escort. For a whilst had M030 ARB's, KLA stiffening brackets, standard bushing all round, eventually settled on 600# spings front, 350# rear. All worked well, much firmer on the road, great on track, lowered c30mm (slightly more bias to rear). Pro's; cheaper than KW, not forever messing with settings (since there is no bump/rebound adjustment), stronger single piston design, larger diameter piston (you get flex in smaller pistons and therefore camber changes), suitable for a multitude of spring rates. KW pro's, bump/rebound adjustment to suit individual/track-road use, good corrosion protection (Billies will have surface corrosion on bodies after one salty Winter - therefore need to waxoil etc), 2 very specific spring rate set-ups tuned by KW (ask bigDave for more detail). Billie's; the indiviual will have to determine what spring rates to settle for, KW it is done for you but you will have determine what bump/rebound settings to settle on.
Then went for polybushed ARBs, solid top mounts. IMHO top mounts make the greatest difference to ride quality - it will suffer if you take that large chunk of rubber out of the top of the front suspension. I then lost the plot/control and removed ALL rubber out of the suspension (rose jointing, solid alloy etc etc), Charlie arms, strut braces etc. Did not notice any difference with an upper strut brace, but the addition of a lower one made a huge difference - car felt much stiffer at the front. The car is incredibly sharp, precise, controllable and predictable (thought it would place it on a knife edge - but reverse occurred - also seek bigDaves views since his car is now similar). It does require you to grab it by the scruff of the neck and and throw/push it hard through corners - the more you do it the more it takes and the faster the speed you carry (strange characteristic that was not expected). Downside is that it is sh!te on the road and uncompromising, to the point that i am hugely reluctant to use it for those fun weekend days when i want to get it out of the garage.
Bottom line is, again i would personally recommend KW, again reiterate "what are you trying to create". Have driven (raced and tested) a 968 race car - they use standard bushing all round! and the difference against our 'modded' cars in the corners will be the driver. So to reiterate, KW, reindex to get the height down, replace as many bushes as you can/expenses allow with STANDARD (including top mounts) (I'm not convinced there is alot of difference between standard and aftermarket uprated - although the aftermarket may be cheaper, and if one of the companies came along they would probably educate me and put me right over the added benefits),perhaps upper/lower strut braces. Add to this some decent track spec tyres, brakes of your choice (don't get me started on brakes) and above all, practice and tuition. Lastly, enjoy and really don't get carried away with the modding bug/what others are doing that pulls the wool over your eyes thinking your/their car will be faster because of the latest mod - you will waste alot of time/money that could otherwise be spent hooning around a track.
All my opinion - i do post some cr#p some times (remember the GT3 vs 968 thread), but have had the car nearly 6 years, 5 suspension set-ups (standard worn, standard new, M030, Bilstein, Bilstein + no rubber) and 4 brake set-ups (standard worn, standard refreshed + pagids/fluid/braided, M030, Big Reds)
The OP should jump in with both feet, then we can have another lengthy discussion on what he thinks (or whether he made the right choice)
All the best
JP
Then went for polybushed ARBs, solid top mounts. IMHO top mounts make the greatest difference to ride quality - it will suffer if you take that large chunk of rubber out of the top of the front suspension. I then lost the plot/control and removed ALL rubber out of the suspension (rose jointing, solid alloy etc etc), Charlie arms, strut braces etc. Did not notice any difference with an upper strut brace, but the addition of a lower one made a huge difference - car felt much stiffer at the front. The car is incredibly sharp, precise, controllable and predictable (thought it would place it on a knife edge - but reverse occurred - also seek bigDaves views since his car is now similar). It does require you to grab it by the scruff of the neck and and throw/push it hard through corners - the more you do it the more it takes and the faster the speed you carry (strange characteristic that was not expected). Downside is that it is sh!te on the road and uncompromising, to the point that i am hugely reluctant to use it for those fun weekend days when i want to get it out of the garage.
Bottom line is, again i would personally recommend KW, again reiterate "what are you trying to create". Have driven (raced and tested) a 968 race car - they use standard bushing all round! and the difference against our 'modded' cars in the corners will be the driver. So to reiterate, KW, reindex to get the height down, replace as many bushes as you can/expenses allow with STANDARD (including top mounts) (I'm not convinced there is alot of difference between standard and aftermarket uprated - although the aftermarket may be cheaper, and if one of the companies came along they would probably educate me and put me right over the added benefits),perhaps upper/lower strut braces. Add to this some decent track spec tyres, brakes of your choice (don't get me started on brakes) and above all, practice and tuition. Lastly, enjoy and really don't get carried away with the modding bug/what others are doing that pulls the wool over your eyes thinking your/their car will be faster because of the latest mod - you will waste alot of time/money that could otherwise be spent hooning around a track.
All my opinion - i do post some cr#p some times (remember the GT3 vs 968 thread), but have had the car nearly 6 years, 5 suspension set-ups (standard worn, standard new, M030, Bilstein, Bilstein + no rubber) and 4 brake set-ups (standard worn, standard refreshed + pagids/fluid/braided, M030, Big Reds)
The OP should jump in with both feet, then we can have another lengthy discussion on what he thinks (or whether he made the right choice)
All the best
JP
Diver944
Active member
We know [8|]
It's all very much appreciated though, you've been down the road that a lot of people think about so it's good to hear from someone who has done it.
The ability to keep a car with a twin purpose is paramount for most of us so I would agree to avoid the stiff springs and solid bushings route for a road car
only thing I'd disagree on is the bushes suggestion JP. My car has poly bushes and solid top mounts and it still drove fine on the road with KW. The rear bushes were Weltmeister ones and they squeak so I'd go with Elephant rollers now I know they exist and the top mounts can be noisy, but in terms of ride it's fine - better than M030 cars I've been in.
I don't think the lower brace is an option for Turbo owners because of the crossover pipe, but I suspected it would make a big difference.
I don't think the lower brace is an option for Turbo owners because of the crossover pipe, but I suspected it would make a big difference.
Well guys, the OP is still here and reading. I've been and met up with the boys tonight here in the North West, and I've now been in both KW and Bilstein cars back to back on the same piece of (very poorly surfaced) road. I will post more tomorrow when I have a touch more time, but big thanks to all whom I met tonight - especially Nick (for letting me bend his ear) and Mark for taking me out to sample.
JP, how much did you pay for your Billies and where from ?
Cheers guys,
Mike
JP, how much did you pay for your Billies and where from ?
Cheers guys,
Mike
O.K .... dont know if this question has been asked before but cant remember and theres way too many posts to read them all again and i need to be clear on a couple of things.....is the KW V3 a direct replacement for what i have on the car now ? besides the reindexing and 4 wheel adjust ments is there anything else i need to purchase to make the KW fit ? and will the KLA top mounts fit directly to this kit ?
Thanks for sticking with it guys.....[]
Thanks for sticking with it guys.....[
]
frogisland
New member
Fen - you could be right re bushing, have not tried poly's and went straight to solid bearing/alloy - now that IS to hard for regular use on the road. Do you think there is much difference between standard and poly? Have heard a few times that the poly's are not much firmer than standard (but perhaps cheaper). Having not gone down this route i have not looked into it much, but would be interested further in your thoughts....the day my car orientates towards standard is getting closer - the squeaks, noises, bangs etc are getting to me.
Re brakes - have a look at this for a start (i put it together a few years ago - i think there is still a minor error on a part number)
http://www.porsche968uk.co.uk/technical_tips/how-to-upgrade-968-brakes.htm
Mike - i put together the parts seaparately, but ordered the struts/coilovers from eshocks in the US.
JP
Re brakes - have a look at this for a start (i put it together a few years ago - i think there is still a minor error on a part number)
http://www.porsche968uk.co.uk/technical_tips/how-to-upgrade-968-brakes.htm
Mike - i put together the parts seaparately, but ordered the struts/coilovers from eshocks in the US.
JP
Well if you wanna sell me the Escort cup shocks and adjustable top mounts I can help that dream become a reality ? [
] lolCheers, I've just checked eshocks and it looks like they MAY be cheaper - just depends on spring costs really.
Nick (Appleton) if you're out there - what spring rates are you running ?
Cheers,
Mike
ORIGINAL: 333pg333
Karl, KW make their own. They call them 'Racing Top Mounts'.
Hiya,
Thanks for the info.
When I contacted Tom Edge at KW USA (back in Feb 2007), they said the "racing top mounts" were not available for sale in the US. For the heck of it, I've just sent him another email to see if that's still the situation.
Karl.
appletonn
New member
ORIGINAL: mike220
Well if you wanna sell me the Escort cup shocks and adjustable top mounts I can help that dream become a reality ? [
Cheers, I've just checked eshocks and it looks like they MAY be cheaper - just depends on spring costs really.
Nick (Appleton) if you're out there - what spring rates are you running ?
Cheers,
Mike
I need to double check
Karl,ORIGINAL: wjk_glynn
ORIGINAL: 333pg333
Karl, KW make their own. They call them 'Racing Top Mounts'.
Hiya,
Thanks for the info.
When I contacted Tom Edge at KW USA (back in Feb 2007), they said the "racing top mounts" were not available for sale in the US. For the heck of it, I've just sent him another email to see if that's still the situation.
Karl.
It's just a part. Can't see why it's available in one country and not the other? I remember you checking into this stuff last year. Perhaps times have changed for the better with any luck.
Patrick
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