Warranty renewal - Rev range 4

[Oggy]

Has anyone experienced this one before ??

Got my car in at the OPC for Warrenty renewal and they just phoned me to say that at some point in it's life, my car has encountered an over-rev in range 4 (= possible engine damage apparently). According to them, this can only happen during over-aggressive down-shift (and never during accelleration).

I did ask the question but they didn't yet tell me when in it's life this occurred however I'm 100% positive it wasn't under my ownership. Anyway...I now have to pay for a full cylinder pressure test before they can ask Porsche to extend the Warrenty...at a cost of £576 []

If this proves OK and Porsche agree, they can then extend the warrenty and I'm allowed to pay another £1,000+ for the privalige.

Never had this last year as apparently 4 was OK then...seems goal-posts have changed since.

My question is then :-

- Assuming I can prove this over-rev occurred before I took ownership, is there any possibility of claiming the £576 back from the supplying OPC (I wonder if anyone else managed to do this) ?

- Will I have to undergo this every year from now on (if so, might bring forward when I change it)

- If it proves there is engine damage and over-rev was prior to my ownership, can I again claim from supplying dealer ?

Your comments / experiences of similar issue very much welcomed []

 

[garyw]

Doug Just going through this myself at the moment, so may well be a new clampdown [&:] I also had to have a pressure test done on the engine but the OPC have only charged me £250 for the pleasure [] I have had to wait a week for the OK from Porsche cars GB and Germany !! They have now said that they will continue the warranty extension. They know how long ago the over-rev took place- 8 hours ago in my case, to which I know exactly where I was and that I hit the limiter going over the Moors []having a hoon! certainly no missed gear etc.. It was a band 4 for me too, which they say they will consider, where a band 5 is no warranty..[] garyw

 

[RSGulp]

I can't offer any direct advice but I know there have been a few threads on Pistonheads which have discussed over-rev issues... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=968702&hw=+%2B%22over+%2Brev%22&nmt=Engine%20over-rev%20warnings%20%E2%80%93%20advice,%20please! Other threads: [link=http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/search4.asp?h=0&f=&t=&p=1&s=r&noDays=730&title=&guid=DC586FEC-86EE-4756-B5D3-5573E9EF0DF6&search=+%2B%22over+%2Brev%22]PH Over Rev Search[/link]

 

[dpoynton]

I'm no engineer, but we pay a lot of money for what are (supposed to be) quality cars. You would think the engineering should be quality as well. This smacks of double standards, we'll charge good money for a quality product but don't come to us if our engines can't cope with being revved. Similar issue with IMS? If over revving is an issue, why isn't there a limiter or some such? Apologies if this is basic stuff to some of you and I've missed something fundamental. D

 

[keithpms]

Gary So yours definitely occured whilst changing up? If so, then the OPC's previous comments to me that you could only exceed the range when downshifting are no longer valid?

 

[tscaptain]

As I understand it the overrevs are given as a number of "ignitions" in a particular range? Given the actual number of ignitions that are happening at those rpm's a very transitory overrev can give a large number. What figures are they talking here Doug? I really don't see how a range 4 can happen accelerating. These are the ranges for the Gen 1 turbo 997TT[/b] Range 1 - 6800-7000 Range 2 - 7000-7200 Range 3 - 7200-7400 Range 4 - 7400-7900 Range 5 - 7900-9000 Range 6 - 9000 up So to get a range 4 you need to exceed 7400 - with the rev limiter I don't see how that can happen on the way up - way down yes possibly. Bizarrely when my car was last on a PIWIS I was told I have some range 2 overrevs and that's with PDK when it shouldn't happen either way!

 

[Oggy]

Seems I am not alone here then... For sure I didn't do this with any downchange as I don't think I have ever done that in any car I have ever driven (even hire-cars). But, I do hit the rev-limiter while accellerating every now and again (which I'm sure we all do). However, if being slightly air-borne at the time has any significance on this, then perhaps I was to blame after-all [&:] I can understand if Porsche want to refuse the warrenty in cases like this (if it proves damage has occurred)....but to charge £570 just to check seems totally unreasonable to me. Given what you said Gary, I'm going to go back to them and challenge this price (again)....THANKS !!!

 

[jbm]

My GT2 had a short history of Rev Range 4 (previous owner!) and they extended the warranty last year although the data had to be sent to Porsche UK for approval. It does seem to be a fairly frequent occurence, although I'm very surprised it happened on a PDK car! Following my recent and on-going warranty 'discussion' with Porsche concerning suspension failure I do not intend to extend the warranty with them again.

 

[spyderman]

There is a limiter but it can't prevent over-revving during down-shifting where the momentum of the car is driving the engine when you de-clutch. The limiter will prevent it on the throttle blip when you heel-and-toe but if you're still going too fast, the engine gets pushed. It won't matter if the range counts occurred under a different owner than yourself - they will still insist on a check.

 

[chard]

I've just found myself in the same position today with my boxster s. The car is in for a service and I thought it would be a good idea to refresh the warranty. Alas someone revved it into band 4 in January 2006 when it was a month old so as with everyone else here, 2 hours labour sir and by the way porsche may reject the warranty request anyway![8|] This to me is the clearest admission yet by porsche that they are fully aware of the inherent design problems with the M96/97 engines. I had a real reality check recently when i put my head round a local independent workshop to see no less than 13 997 engines which has expired this month alone! I did quite fancy a gen 1 997 but not now, it seems outrageous that porsche can approve a warrranty for the car they are selling but won't warrant it 2 year down the line for a rev issue which happened prior to you ownership of the car??[>:] P.S. My local OPC is very good ou twith the warranty issue.

 

[garyw]

My car had a compression test and an oil check carried out on it, Porsche Germany were happy with the figures presented to them so will continue to warranty extend on my car. To put it bluntly, It's an optional insurance policy and they are looking to minimise the risk to themselves at the end of the day.. nothing more. The OPC have to do the time inspecting the car, so I guess there is a cost- although I think they are taking the mickey with Doug's example!! They don't really want to warranty a half blown/worn engine.... [] and so I guess they are just minimising the risk to themselves (with me paying for it) I believe mine may have happened on a down hill section of a very long road where I hit the limiter to complete an overtake....[] I certainly don't remember any missed gears for sure. I think the momentum may have just pushed the car over the rev limiter. The car performed faultlessly in Wales and I have full confidence in the car, infact more than Porsche by the looks of it [] garyw

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: Oggy However, if being slightly air-borne at the time has any significance on this, then perhaps I was to blame after-all [&:]

mmmmm maybe it wasn't my overtake then....[]

 

[Oggy]

I'm sure mine will be ok also as still goes like a rocket and is not showing any signs of engine wear in terms of oil consumption / smoking. I'm confident that like yours, Warrenty will be renewed in the end...I just take great exception to being charged so much for this, the check should be included in Porsches cost of selling warrenties in the first place IMO. But if it turns out they won't renew the warrenty....any-one want to buy a 997 Turbo ??....1 careful owner (but I can't vouch for the other 3) [][]

 

[Peter_Bull]

Hi Oggy Can you say which OPC quoted that high price to do the pressure test? When I bought my C2 earlier this year I asked about the overrevs history and it transpires that when they got the car from Reading (it was a press car) it had been over revved. Before they could put on a warranty they had to replace the whole top end - eg valves / rockers etc before they could put on a warranty for the first owner! When I got the car they put on another 2 year warranty so I am more than happy with that. I wonder if it was over revved by Vic Elford when he used the car in Monaco - featured in Christophorus 2008. A worthy over rev! I must add that the car is as sweet and quiet as anything and has only used half a litre of oil in 10k miles !

 

[Alex L]

Gen 1 Turbo = Mezger engine = 1st and 2nd Le Mans 1998 in the GT1 (3.2 L flat 6 twin-turbo) ... Not because it was the fastest car but because it was the most reliable! I wouldn't be worried.

 

[yan]

I note that you didn’t own the car from new but are confident that the problem was not due to your ownership. Doesn’t the supplying dealer have any duty to inform prospective owners of this circumstance, i.e. they would have known that the car had this feature unless they don’t check things prior to selling it on? If they don’t check such things shouldn’t they being the obvious question… The alternative seems that they don’t inform customers and in this knowledge are cynically setting up the owner, who quite reasonably might wish to extend their warranty, with hidden costs.

 

[Oggy]

Thanks Alex, thanks also to Gary for providing me costs / details of your pressure test. But unfortunately, they (OPC Bolton) won't move on price (or throw in free anything...like an oil change) and tell me it should actually be costing a lot more than this (over 5 hrs labour) !!! So now, for 1yrs warrenty extension (without breakdown cover) + basic checks + pressure test (and remove oil filter to look for bits of con-rod blah blah), it's coming in at £1,626.00...assuming Porsche agree that is. I found out this over-rev occurred at 459 operating hrs and car has now done 763hrs. I bought it with approx 16,000 miles and it's now done approx 25,000. So if my maths is correct....this was 60% through it's life....and 60% of 25,000 miles is 15,000.....ENOUGH SAID [] Good news is, unless there are other over-rev incidents after this one, I won't have to go through this every year from now on as inspection done now covers this occurance. Even better news is....getting air-borne on the rev-limiter does not apparently invalidate your warrenty [][]

 

[marlin]

I had this same issue, Porsche Bolton who carried out the test free of charge to their credit. The problem is I categorically know that my car at no time has been over revved . The only explanation is a recording fault on the ecu. I was offered the warranty because the car showed no damage but turned it down because of the attitude taken by Porsche UK who where frankly working on the John Cleese school of how to treat customers. I now no longer visit OPCs and feel a whole lot better for it []

 

[Nick_USA]

You maybe interested to know with the introduction of the 991 the car has an uprated fault logging system. The down side of this is for over-rev incidents and indeed all engine/transmission failures it will also log your GPS data, and as we know warranty claims excludes track use ..... need I say more.

 

[Oggy]

Makes you wonder what else will be stored on the ECU... Another reason not to buy a 991 (but main one still being I can't afford one) []