Well, I may be some time ...

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

Due to some unusual circumstances (no names, no pack drill and all that), I'm going to be driving a 944 Turbo from here (London) to Edinburgh tomorrow. Well, that's to say that I will be starting tomorrow, and will be finishing .... well, who knows? It will take as long as it will take (as my old maths teacher used to say), and I may be gone some time. Of course, if it was a half-decent S2 I was due to be piloting then I would probably be there and back in time for elevenses, but sadly not; this is a turbo.

So ... please remember me well and speak of me fondly while I am gone (even if this means lying through your teeth). Mods, I'd be grateful if you would keep my login reserved for me - I'm quite fond of 'ol "zcacogp" as I have had it some time. I think I'll nominate Copperman Ed and McNulters to be the (un)official bearers of the "S2 is superior" flag while I am gone (they do it so honestly and so jolly well) and I'll log in again when I am back.

As Ace Rimmer said*, "It's not farewell, as that implies I won't be back". But it may be quite some time. We all know (and some of us are brave enough to admit) that all 944's are very reliable, and I am hoping that this one will take 400-odd miles in it's (slow) stride without a wastegate or crossover or boost enhancer or turbo or headgasket problem (none of which I would understand if it did occur).

If the worst comes to the worst and I have to walk to make up for lost time, I'm sure I'll be back in time for Christmas.


Oli.


P.S. ChrisG, I promise I won't let this delay my returning of your tools. Apologies again ...


* - Or maybe he didn't.

 

[GlennS]

Good luck on your hairdryer assisted odyssey!

 

[Hairyarse]

Careful you don't get a nose bleed travelling that far north

 

[simkin911]

Sounds like a nutty adventure to me. I'm sure you'll then be able to expand on just how slow these turbos are compared to an s2 but then I'm sure the turbo owners will suggest it has more to do with the individual car.... []

 

[TTM]

A probable reason you may be gone longer than if you went with the S2 is that you may not be able to avoid making unearthly detours to justify spending more time behind the wheel!

 

[DavidL]

Don't forget you'll need a passport north of Watford.
You may wnat to use the time you have whilst spearing north at great speed to mentally write that classified ad that we all know will appear when you return.
So Tuesday then.

 

[Diver944]

It's a hard life Oli............but someone has to do it

Enjoy the booooooooost [8D]

 

[NeilW]

We'll smoke you a kipper......

 

[Fat Albert]

Took mine up to Sheffield and back today to show that Turbos can venture North-ish

Of course you will return a Boost Addict Oli, if for no other reason that once you are on the motorway you never have to change gear if you stay above 50

 

[zcacogp]

OK, this is being written from somewhere a little north of where I started ... (mobile internet connections are superb things, but you most certainly didn't see me using my 'phone while driving ossifer!)

Interestingly, I just found a collection of dyno print-outs in the glove box. 307.0bhp, from Thorney Motorsports. OK, they are dating back to 2008, so the number may have gone down (or up) since then, but that's still quite an impressive figure. I'm not sure what the spec of the car is, but I know it's not standard; there is a manual boost controller under the bonnet and a receipt for RPM chips in the history file.

And .... well, I can see what all the fuss is about. I have experienced boost, and can understand the appeal. When it is on boost, it is unstoppable. It pulls like a train; smoothly, quietly, in an unfussed manner, and the scenery blurs into the rear view mirror with remarkable efficiency. That much is good, and appealing.

The downside is getting there. A nice example was pulling onto the motorway, from a service station. Short slip road, looked up the road and saw a bus some distance away, thought "Yes, I'll make that easily" and I pushed the relevant pedal nice and hard away from me. And waited. And watched the bus get closer. And pushed the pedal a little more (it really was all the way down, but I wanted to make sure there wasn't an errant can of anti-freeze or random hipopotamus stuck underneath it.) And glanced in the rear view mirror to see the bus bearing down on me, the driver looking worried and the passengers starting to think "Why doesn't that silly old Porsche get out of the way?" ... and then it happened; the boost finally arrived, the back end squirmed, and I was heading off into the middle of next week with the bus rapidly becoming a distant memory and I didn't have a care in the world.

I can now better understand all the things that have been written about the turbo versus the S2. "Good things come to those who wait" (and I can't remember who wrote that - sorry) sums it up brilliantly. Genuinely good things do come in the turbo. Lovely things. But the downside is that you need to wait quite a long old time ...

I'm going to be very interested to find out the full spec of this car (not - I hasten to add - destined for my ownership, although the new owner will no doubt be delighted with it). As I said, it's clearly not standard, and I'd love to know what difference the modifications have made (other than 57 bhp).

And now, do excuse me - I think I may need to overtake sometime in the next hour or so, and therefore need to think about some more acceleration ...


Oli.

 

[Frenchy]

You were in the wrong gear Fella, work the gearbox and boost lag is minimal []

 

[JamesO]

Or adding an extra 500cc sorts it out a treat.

 

[Suffolk944]

ORIGINAL: Frenchy

You were in the wrong gear Fella, work the gearbox and boost lag is minimal []

Indeed - you generally need to be in one gear lower than you think you should be ! IIRC the gearing on the turbo is pretty tall so thats not quite daft as it seems...

 

[scam75]

ORIGINAL: JamesO

Or adding an extra 500cc sorts it out a treat.

As does ejecting the barn door AFM and replacing it with a MAF unit.

Incidentally Oli the car you drove has the RPM chipset you mentioned, manual boost controller, dual port wastegate and a some non standard exhaust! As you know it's went to an S2 owner who accidentally ended up in a turbo and seen the light!

Welcome to the world of boooooooooooooooost!

Stuart

 

[Lowtimer]

Your usual characterful, amusing and vivid report, Oli!

Yes, they can be like that sometimes , even with the dual port wastegate fitted. The one you are driving is probably very similar in feel to my Promax Level 2 one. In the situation where you were pulling away from the petrol station, the turbocharger was probably literally completely stationary when you put your foot down, and that is when it is at its worst. It is a big heavy old turbine wheel and takes a bit of stoking up.

Once you are on the move, it doesn't generally stop altogether, and moving off after a brief halt, e.g. at a roundabout, the thing is usually still turning a bit and you get a lot less lag. The place where mine always gives me the cold shoulder the way you describe it is one particular 60 mph roundabout which I approach down a long, long hill on a completely closed throttle, and then usually have to wait at the bottom. That's when it is at its laziest. Giving the throttle a good full-throttle blip in neutral before you try to move off is helpful.

Jon makes a good point about the different final drive on the Turbo. As an experienced S2 driver, when sitting in a similar driving environment you will automatically have a an S2 picture in your head of what gear goes with what situation, and the higher gearing on the Turbo really is going to mean you ought to be one gear lower in a lot of those situations.

 

[sawood12]

It is far easier and chapter to add an extra 3psi of boost to get your extra 500cc's worth of air! And while you're at it, why stop at just 3psi?

You do need to work the gearbox more in a turbo and learn to plan ahead. It is a different style of driving, but with a bit of practice lag is not an issue at all and is just an excuse those anti-lag Luddites frequently roll out ;-)

There are planty of advantages to driving up north. The roads are far more exciting, they're emptier and the air is cooler, more moist and easily worth an extra handful of bhp!

 

[barks944]

Don't forget we are talking about an ancient turbo and a very simplistic engine management system here. There's a hell of a lot to be improved on here. I'm looking at a borg warner ERT turbo which has an aluminium compressor wheel, gamma titanium turbine, ceramic ball bearings and possibly twin scroll. This will drastically reduce the inertia of the turbo and twin scroll really helps get the best out of the turbine at low RPMS. Couple that with an injection system that actually understands boost pressure and doesn't retard the ignition all the time because it doesn't have a clue what is going on and you will have a very different animal . I'm going to be aiming for ~2500rpm spool and >350bhp, but we shall see!

 

[barks944]

I'm not sure what you mean, but you can always fit a smaller turbo to move peak down the curve. The clever bit is not to loose it up top...

 

[zcacogp]

Well, I've finally arrived back home. Having driven up in a turbo and come back in a National Express coach, I can genuinely say that the National Express coach was faster. (No, I really am serious.)

The car in question is (as Scam correctly said) now in the possession of its new owner, who got something of a bargain when he bought it. He has posted already on this thread but I shall allow him to reveal himself in due course! He does indeed already own a - very lovely - S2, and another turbo which is being restored.

Am I glad I did it? Yes. I now think I know more about the turbo, and understand the S2/Turbo comparison better. I think that the general mindset is probably quite correct; they are very different cars, and will suit different people. The power delivery is totally different, which is where the main difference lies. (Interestingly, I didn't notice the gear ratios being that much higher, and it is something I was looking out for.) Would I swap? No. I think that the S2 suits my needs much better than a turbo would. I don't do that much driving on the open roads, and would find the lag very annoying. (Yes, I may learn to drive 'round it, but that would be quite hard; when driving it on boost in second, and changing up when it hit the red line, you had a reasonable while before boost really appeared in third, and again from third to fourth. Maybe this is lack of driver skill, maybe it is a function of this particular model, but driving to maximise the boost was something I couldn't master.) The low-down grunt from the S2 is not matched in the turbo, and for town driving this would be a problem. Also (and perhaps this is me), I prefer the progressive power delivery of a normally-aspirated engine; driving an S2 briskly is a function of getting the right revs in the right gear; driving a turbo briskly is more a function of getting the request for power in enough in advance, and enjoying the power when it arrives. (And I am aware that the turbo I experienced was modified, and therefore probably less laggy than a standard one.)

One thing I certainly noticed was the fuel consumption; on the (intentionally gentle) drive from London to Edinburgh, the fuel light came on at about 390 miles into a full tank, and I filled up at just under 400. With similar driving in my S2 I would expect at least 420 and probably nearer 430 before the warning light appeared.

So, does that make me a happy S2 owner? Yes, as I always have been, but I guess I am now a happy and more knowledgeable one ...

Here's a photo taken outside my house before I set off, of the turbo in question and my S2. You'll notice that the S2 is ahead of the turbo, both literally and figuratively!


Oli.

 

[simkin911]

I admit I am responsible for showing Oli the benefits of a turbo charged 944!

A number of weeks ago - perhaps 6 or 8 - I was in London and tried to organise a "meet". Alas, only Oli was available so the meeting was confined to just the two of us. Close to my office there happened to be a Turbo up for sale so I arranged for us to have a nosey at it before heading for a curry.

I wasn't particularly interested in the car at the viewing and I thanked the seller and we headed off to Brick Lane.

A couple of weeks ago the seller contacted me and we managed to (eventually) agree a price for the car subject to a PPI which Oli kindly organised at Tower Porsche.

Is it perfect? No. Is it a scrapper? Definitely not. Is it quick? Compared to my s2 I think it's exhilaratingly quick when the boost kicks in!

The seller didn't really clean the car or clear it out. When I started to rummage through the glove box we found the big bill for RPM (3 years, 5k ago) and the dyno results at 307 bhp. Can't believe he didn't think this was important to tell me!
'91 plate, bridge spolier with linen sports interior with speaker upgrade pack.

It does need a massive clean inside and out and some attention to the bodywork (although it does have a nearly new MOT). It's had masses of money spent on it over the years and has a sizeable history file.

I'm very pleased with this purchase..... []

Photos will follow once it's been cleaned up big time.

Finally, HUGE thanks to Oli for everything! He's been with me every step of the way from Day 1 to delivery. What a very helpful chap. What a guy! Thanks also to Sulzeruk for advice in the final stages of negotiation. []