Winter Projects anyone???
- Thread starter Guest
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Guest
New member
I know what this is. You ditch the rear banana shaped muffler and attach a pipe to the end of the premuffler exiting in the usual location. I bet it is hellish loud - probably like running extractors and megaphones as the pre-muff doesn't so much muffle as change the tone. On the plus side you will ditch all the weight of the rear muffler and it will set off car alarms when you drive past - cool, if you like that kind of thing. On the downside, your wife/girlfriend/children/dog may never want to ride in the car again. On second thoughts perhaps that is a good thing....
On a vaguely related topic, I was talking to JAZ this afternoon about further winter projects. They reckon that gearsets are around £400 per gear - so you are £800 plus labour, which is apparently much more for a G50 than a 915. A clutch job is £800+ depending on how you spec it. So, clutch and gearset could add up to "a lot". I need to investigate the cost of a gearset further.
We also talked about cams and top end rebuild with all the good bits and reckoned this was £2500 with an estimate of 250+hp. On a cost benefit analysis this doesn't stack up so well. Better value would be SSIs, a custom Muffler and a custom chip. Estimate is 260hp going this route - and they have done this a couple of times with this result. Lots to think about.
Richard
Richard
On a vaguely related topic, I was talking to JAZ this afternoon about further winter projects. They reckon that gearsets are around £400 per gear - so you are £800 plus labour, which is apparently much more for a G50 than a 915. A clutch job is £800+ depending on how you spec it. So, clutch and gearset could add up to "a lot". I need to investigate the cost of a gearset further.
We also talked about cams and top end rebuild with all the good bits and reckoned this was £2500 with an estimate of 250+hp. On a cost benefit analysis this doesn't stack up so well. Better value would be SSIs, a custom Muffler and a custom chip. Estimate is 260hp going this route - and they have done this a couple of times with this result. Lots to think about.
Richard
Richard
IanHighfield
New member
There are GUARD and POWERHAUS gears plus more for sale here on Pelican.
915 GUARD TRANSMISSION GEARS:
GUARD 1st GEAR 15:29 1.933 $ 395.00
GUARD 2nd GEAR 20:32 1.600 $ 395.00
GUARD 3rd GEAR 22:29 1.318 $ 395.00
G-50 POWERHAUS II TRANSMISSION GEARS:
POWERHAUS 3rd GEAR 19:32 1.684 $ 495.00
POWERHAUS 5th GEAR 28:23 1.217 $ 495.00
G50-10 CUP TRANSMISSION Rebuilt $5,000.00
GT-2 Limited Slip / Steel Synco's / ERP Side Cover Plate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196188
Might be of interest.
915 GUARD TRANSMISSION GEARS:
GUARD 1st GEAR 15:29 1.933 $ 395.00
GUARD 2nd GEAR 20:32 1.600 $ 395.00
GUARD 3rd GEAR 22:29 1.318 $ 395.00
G-50 POWERHAUS II TRANSMISSION GEARS:
POWERHAUS 3rd GEAR 19:32 1.684 $ 495.00
POWERHAUS 5th GEAR 28:23 1.217 $ 495.00
G50-10 CUP TRANSMISSION Rebuilt $5,000.00
GT-2 Limited Slip / Steel Synco's / ERP Side Cover Plate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196188
Might be of interest.
Jacob
New member
[
][][]I fitted the silencer bypass pipe this morning - it is VERY, VERY loud I could not wipe the porsche grin off my face[
]There is no way you could seriously leave it on your car all the time it would p**s your neighbours off - it did set a car alarm off (at about 3k rpm!) and it would attract alot of attention from the local plod!
perfect for track day use - took about 30mins to remove silencer and fit bypass pipe.
Did I get any extra power??
I very much doubt it - but it was incredibly loud[
]
Guest
New member
I don't think you have any chance of passing the noise tests for track days. Even the most lenient are usually 105db. You are probably at circa 110db!!! By way of reference, a 2.7RS with SSIs and a 1-out sport muffler is over 105db. Likewise, a 2.8RS with RSR rally headers and 2 fairly big open mufflers is also a 105+db set-up. Each of these cars needs bolt on cans to get on track.
Richard
Guest
New member
Little bolt (actually C-clamp) on straight thru mufflers that reduce noise by close to 2db. You take the decorative trim off the tailpipe and they just slip over and are then tightened on with the C-clamp. They are sold by many places but most often Merlin Motorsport who are next to Castle Combe which has the strickest noise limits. A friend of mine has a couple for his 2.8 RS. He would not pass the test at Combe but can at least get on track on 105db days elsewhere. This car makes circa 265hp and is built to rev to 8500rpm - its one of the best sounding 911s ever IMHO.
Guest
New member
Primarily, looking for quotes.
An intervening circumstance has arisen in the form of a house move. Positives include a good double garage but negatives include the drain on time, focus and cash.
The cost of gearsets has basically ruled out a re-gearing but the current plan includes SSI exhaust and remap of chip from Wayne Schofield or Geoff Everett. In the discretionary budget is 993 Supercup Cams and a complimentary top end rebuild. The other consideration is city bonuses which really determines dream form reality. I will know all by the end of March. Given I will have a garage, I am thinking of doing the exhaust stuff myself - its not particularly difficult.
Otherwise it is a weight lose program that I will concentrate on. Rear wiper went south a few weeks ago and light(er) weight interior is to follow plus a couple of other projects. A lot depends on spare time, so I will see what eventuates and be sure to post updates!
ciao,
Richard
Guest
New member
Hi Anil,
Having read your post regarding tyre Goo, You may be interested in a new product that my company supplies and installs, Its called Puncturseal, we install it into tyres where it becomes a liquid inner tube standing by in the event of a puncture.
The standard commecial grade Punctureseal is fine for 'ordinary' cars but I have never been happy about using it in cars such as 'our' Porches. But I have been testing a new high performance version in my 3.2 Carrera and can confirm that the high speed handling and performance are completely uninpaired!
The installation process is a quick and clean one and only takes about 30-40 minutes!
For Club Members I'll offer a huge discount as well.
If you would like more info please email me.
Regards Glenn.
3.2 Carrera Targa Sport
Having read your post regarding tyre Goo, You may be interested in a new product that my company supplies and installs, Its called Puncturseal, we install it into tyres where it becomes a liquid inner tube standing by in the event of a puncture.
The standard commecial grade Punctureseal is fine for 'ordinary' cars but I have never been happy about using it in cars such as 'our' Porches. But I have been testing a new high performance version in my 3.2 Carrera and can confirm that the high speed handling and performance are completely uninpaired!
The installation process is a quick and clean one and only takes about 30-40 minutes!
For Club Members I'll offer a huge discount as well.
If you would like more info please email me.
Regards Glenn.
3.2 Carrera Targa Sport
Guest
New member
They are great - probably the best you can buy. I copied this off their website:
"Overview
Developments in solenoid injector, computer managed, fuel injection have re-established fuel mixing and distribution amongst the most important areas for performance gain; whether for power, torque, economy or emission reduction. In addition, the ability of current engine management systems to cater accurately for virtually any combination of load, rpm, temperature, pressure, feedback information and rate of change has made response and driveability an important and tuneable element in any engine specification.
Detail
Our injected throttle bodies are designed with detailed attention to fuel mixing and distribution. Injector position, angle and port characteristics all play an important role, as well as butterfly and spindle position and shape. In a comparison test by a major manufacturer, Jenvey TH45i twin bodies gave 2% more power than the best from other suppliers. Not a lot, but it all helps, and the rest were left trailing a further 5% by these two (the runner-up was made by us as well!).
Shut angles
The optimum shut angle for a Carburettor butterfly is commonly 12°. This gives good results with regard to idle and progression mixture control and, given the fuelling characteristics of most carburettors, good driveability. With different needs, fuel injection butterflies can use a much smaller shut angle (ours is usually 8°), giving finer control at small throttle openings. This is one of the reasons why adapted carburettor parts, sometimes seen in throttle bodies, can be unsatisfactory.
Bearings
Heat soak into the induction system can raise the temperature of throttle bodies to as high as 140° Centigrade - 100° is common. The spindle bearings must allow for the resulting expansion difference between spindle and casing to prevent risk of the throttles sticking. Ball bearings lack the necessary axial float , whilst nylon - based plastic bushes can suffer from high temperature creep, absorption swelling and wear. Jenvey bodies all use PTFE - lubricated, sintered phosphor - bronze shell bearings which allow expansion float, extreme accuracy, low wear and temperatures over 200° C. Whilst more expensive than alternatives, we believe that this system is essential in the interests of safety and reliable performance.
Copies
We are flattered that our throttle bodies are copied, at least in appearance, by a number of other manufacturers. This, however, does not mean that these imitations are the same thing or that they give the same results.
Pointers
Jenvey throttle bodies are all;
Backed by rig tests of over 1 million cycles for all major components.
Backed by a comprehensive accessory, parts and spares service.
Backed by a total induction system design, tool and make service.
Proven in use world wide.
Individually tested before release.
Designed and developed for performance and reliability.
Made almost entirely in our own factories.
Constantly under development.
Good value: We are the specialists. "
So that is the marketing spiel, but they are also highly recommended by people like Steve Winter at JAZ.
The real question is what are you going to do with them or what engine are they going on? Unfortunately, you won't see much in the way of benefits on a standard 3.2 because of two things: exhaust and cams. You need a free flow exhaust as a minimum, but really you need a much more aggressive cam which means you need new pistons and cylinders to provide sufficient valve clearance - basically a new engine. The main benfits of ITBs are that you give the air and fuel a straight shot at the back of the intake valve and that you can run more aggressive cams. Without the cams you leave most of the benefit on the table. You will however have very snappy throttle response and a great sound.
This is my personal recipe for more hp from a 3.2 in a few easy steps:
1. Steve Wong chip (minimal gains but cheap and no down side)
2. SW chip + SSI/pre-74 type exhaust (sounds good and a few more ponies)
3. Custom chip (Wayne Schofield or Geoff Everett (sp?)) + SSI (Wayne has seen up to 260hp) from this combo.
4. Step 3 plus top end rebuild with 964 or 993 Supercup grind cams (Supercup probably need racing valve springs so you have to do what amounts to a top end rebuild while arguably 964 do not) - expect 260+hp
5. Step 4 plus new ECU fuel control (Motec, DTA, etc) - dynos have shown up to 30-40hp from this alone
6. Step 5 plus ITBs
7. Step 6 plus increase displacement to 3.4/3.5 if you need a full rebuild.
These are steps that you can take without really having to start again and throw anything away (other than the chips when you get to step 5). If you need a top end or a full rebuild then you can easily add these into the budget for little additional expense. In my opinion this gets you a very streetable engine with loads of torque and sensible hp increases at each step, however, this still has compromises. If you aim for max hp then you would never use the Supercup or 964 cam for example. You can also see the diminishing marginal returns from this approach if you added dollar signs to the steps.
HTH
Richard
"Overview
Developments in solenoid injector, computer managed, fuel injection have re-established fuel mixing and distribution amongst the most important areas for performance gain; whether for power, torque, economy or emission reduction. In addition, the ability of current engine management systems to cater accurately for virtually any combination of load, rpm, temperature, pressure, feedback information and rate of change has made response and driveability an important and tuneable element in any engine specification.
Detail
Our injected throttle bodies are designed with detailed attention to fuel mixing and distribution. Injector position, angle and port characteristics all play an important role, as well as butterfly and spindle position and shape. In a comparison test by a major manufacturer, Jenvey TH45i twin bodies gave 2% more power than the best from other suppliers. Not a lot, but it all helps, and the rest were left trailing a further 5% by these two (the runner-up was made by us as well!).
Shut angles
The optimum shut angle for a Carburettor butterfly is commonly 12°. This gives good results with regard to idle and progression mixture control and, given the fuelling characteristics of most carburettors, good driveability. With different needs, fuel injection butterflies can use a much smaller shut angle (ours is usually 8°), giving finer control at small throttle openings. This is one of the reasons why adapted carburettor parts, sometimes seen in throttle bodies, can be unsatisfactory.
Bearings
Heat soak into the induction system can raise the temperature of throttle bodies to as high as 140° Centigrade - 100° is common. The spindle bearings must allow for the resulting expansion difference between spindle and casing to prevent risk of the throttles sticking. Ball bearings lack the necessary axial float , whilst nylon - based plastic bushes can suffer from high temperature creep, absorption swelling and wear. Jenvey bodies all use PTFE - lubricated, sintered phosphor - bronze shell bearings which allow expansion float, extreme accuracy, low wear and temperatures over 200° C. Whilst more expensive than alternatives, we believe that this system is essential in the interests of safety and reliable performance.
Copies
We are flattered that our throttle bodies are copied, at least in appearance, by a number of other manufacturers. This, however, does not mean that these imitations are the same thing or that they give the same results.
Pointers
Jenvey throttle bodies are all;
Backed by rig tests of over 1 million cycles for all major components.
Backed by a comprehensive accessory, parts and spares service.
Backed by a total induction system design, tool and make service.
Proven in use world wide.
Individually tested before release.
Designed and developed for performance and reliability.
Made almost entirely in our own factories.
Constantly under development.
Good value: We are the specialists. "
So that is the marketing spiel, but they are also highly recommended by people like Steve Winter at JAZ.
The real question is what are you going to do with them or what engine are they going on? Unfortunately, you won't see much in the way of benefits on a standard 3.2 because of two things: exhaust and cams. You need a free flow exhaust as a minimum, but really you need a much more aggressive cam which means you need new pistons and cylinders to provide sufficient valve clearance - basically a new engine. The main benfits of ITBs are that you give the air and fuel a straight shot at the back of the intake valve and that you can run more aggressive cams. Without the cams you leave most of the benefit on the table. You will however have very snappy throttle response and a great sound.
This is my personal recipe for more hp from a 3.2 in a few easy steps:
1. Steve Wong chip (minimal gains but cheap and no down side)
2. SW chip + SSI/pre-74 type exhaust (sounds good and a few more ponies)
3. Custom chip (Wayne Schofield or Geoff Everett (sp?)) + SSI (Wayne has seen up to 260hp) from this combo.
4. Step 3 plus top end rebuild with 964 or 993 Supercup grind cams (Supercup probably need racing valve springs so you have to do what amounts to a top end rebuild while arguably 964 do not) - expect 260+hp
5. Step 4 plus new ECU fuel control (Motec, DTA, etc) - dynos have shown up to 30-40hp from this alone
6. Step 5 plus ITBs
7. Step 6 plus increase displacement to 3.4/3.5 if you need a full rebuild.
These are steps that you can take without really having to start again and throw anything away (other than the chips when you get to step 5). If you need a top end or a full rebuild then you can easily add these into the budget for little additional expense. In my opinion this gets you a very streetable engine with loads of torque and sensible hp increases at each step, however, this still has compromises. If you aim for max hp then you would never use the Supercup or 964 cam for example. You can also see the diminishing marginal returns from this approach if you added dollar signs to the steps.
HTH
Richard
This seems like a good time to chip in.
My Winter stuff has included a new clutch ( first in 18yrs) wow! what a difference in pedal pressure!
Severe lowering 40mm!! --top end of tyres disapearing into arches, turbo tie rods, and since the car is so low I will now need to space the steering rack or fit some < thingy> that has the same effect ( American job).
ECU already optimised by W Schofield and v. happy with 255 at 80deg F
Geometry set up 1.0 deg neg fr and 1.5 rear -- any more seems to eat tyres. Car sits approx 10mm lower fr/rr
Got a deal on Pirelli P-ZeroCs which suit the car well.
going to fit ? Aon bumpstops to help with ride following lowering( anyone have their no?)
And I bought a ducktail.. haven't seen it yet but I want to fit it for fun and see what it looks and feels like at speed.
Love to do the weight loss thing but just can't be arsed
Mike
My Winter stuff has included a new clutch ( first in 18yrs) wow! what a difference in pedal pressure!
Severe lowering 40mm!! --top end of tyres disapearing into arches, turbo tie rods, and since the car is so low I will now need to space the steering rack or fit some < thingy> that has the same effect ( American job).
ECU already optimised by W Schofield and v. happy with 255 at 80deg F
Geometry set up 1.0 deg neg fr and 1.5 rear -- any more seems to eat tyres. Car sits approx 10mm lower fr/rr
Got a deal on Pirelli P-ZeroCs which suit the car well.
going to fit ? Aon bumpstops to help with ride following lowering( anyone have their no?)
And I bought a ducktail.. haven't seen it yet but I want to fit it for fun and see what it looks and feels like at speed.
Love to do the weight loss thing but just can't be arsed
Mike
Guest
New member
FYI, I just used the rack spacer kit. You may be a nadge lower than me but its worth a try as it costs so little compared to the full bump steer kit. You could just use washers for almost zero cost and see how it goes. I am this low at rest- see below.
I think you will like the P0Cs as they are a good all round tyre. My only complaint is that the sidewalls are not all that stiff so turn in is not miraculous like with say the Dunlop D01Js. On the plus side they allow you to slide quite progressively and easily without snapping at the limit.
RB
I think you will like the P0Cs as they are a good all round tyre. My only complaint is that the sidewalls are not all that stiff so turn in is not miraculous like with say the Dunlop D01Js. On the plus side they allow you to slide quite progressively and easily without snapping at the limit.
RB
jamescharnley
Active member
thats interesting, 1st time I've seen someone quote some actual numbers. My 2.4 S with a stainless backbox is very loud, & I have often wondered how close it might be to trackday limits ( I'm a track day virgin [
] )
Guest
New member
Mike,
The car is from the USA.
James,
I once borrowed a noise meter when my car seemed particularly loud (it needed a new crossover pipe) and in order to test a friend's 964 3.8RSR race/track day car. I have another friend who had a 2.4S rebuilt to 2.7RS specs and who now has the 2.8RS as described above. I pay attention to the noise meter numbers at various tracks as my friend has had problems getting on to track days and we have had to adopt some novel silencing solutions. The problem with the "S" engines is that the MFI and S cams are very noisy. In my experience, even a std S 1-out silencer over the common 102db limits - closer to 105db in fact. A little bolt-on silencer that attaches to the tailpipe once the trim is removed will take about 2db off and make 102db days just possible. They are cheap insurance at about £50 from most motorsport shops.
Richard
The car is from the USA.
James,
I once borrowed a noise meter when my car seemed particularly loud (it needed a new crossover pipe) and in order to test a friend's 964 3.8RSR race/track day car. I have another friend who had a 2.4S rebuilt to 2.7RS specs and who now has the 2.8RS as described above. I pay attention to the noise meter numbers at various tracks as my friend has had problems getting on to track days and we have had to adopt some novel silencing solutions. The problem with the "S" engines is that the MFI and S cams are very noisy. In my experience, even a std S 1-out silencer over the common 102db limits - closer to 105db in fact. A little bolt-on silencer that attaches to the tailpipe once the trim is removed will take about 2db off and make 102db days just possible. They are cheap insurance at about £50 from most motorsport shops.
Richard
Guest
New member
Richard,
How generous was Santa?
Did you get any of mods done or they still pending? (Like most of mine)
Cheers Glenn
How generous was Santa?
Did you get any of mods done or they still pending? (Like most of mine)
Cheers Glenn
ORIGINAL: Richard Bernau
Just wondering if anyone has any interesting winter projects planned. A nice little 993RS engine swap maybe, big brakes, new suspension, backdate to 73RS??? Speaking of which, can anyone believe the price Autofarm are asking for their "Autofarm RSs" based on 3.2s and appearing in every car mag in the country of late - £65k+ !!! Are they using solid gold bolts?
I am going to get a set of 16x7/8 wheels refinished in RSR pattern and hope to lose a little more weight from the car - rear wiper, a bit of sound deadening, who knows what else may be ditched in the quest for lightweight. Has anyone used an Optima battery on a car that isn't driven much? If Santa is very generous I might treat the car to a new clutch and "while I am in there" look at a lighter flywheel and short 3rd and 4th gears - but somehow I don't think Santa will be that generous [
Anyhow, RSR wheel picture attached.
Richard
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