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Archied

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Please tell me I'm not overreacting but I find this type of news annoying in the extreme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j4tAzkHwRM

This youtuber Shmee150 "buys" sports cars of the limited edition variety , blogs about them, flips them for more cash and repeats. He is a modern day Lamborghini poster for young men or older men who like him. Behind this facade however there is the screaming issue of how is he able to obtain allocations for so many limited edition cars? So when you look at his McLaren allocations they make sense , in that he gets LT cars because he has a track record of "buymoting" their cars before getting the limited edition cars. He has AMG GT R coming, New Ford GT coming, has an Aston GT8 but its the Porsche GT3 allocation that amazes me and at the same time annoys the hell out of me. Why? Well his only dalliance with Porsche was , yes a Cayman GT4, which he sold for profit back to an OPC . He has no affiliation or track record of buying or even liking Porsche 911's until recently. So when the lieks of you and I pop into the OPC and are told , only special loyal, long time clients get "asked" to buy a GT car we accept that and keep buying the stock variety Porsche in the hope perhaps that one dfay we may get "asked" to drop 100k plus on a car. Meanwhile, Shmee simply has to aks and gets a GT3 allocation on the back of a similar outrage on a GT4. What is it I'm not getting, we put up with all manner of nonsense and support the brand because we like the cars, yet Porsche UK dangle the fiction of access to a GT car only once loyal brand service has been served. Yet this bloke hs no such history and egst to own and flip these cars as he sees fit. It makes a mockery of the recent Porsche senior management coming out against this very thing. I don't care if he drives them a lot or not, its the access to allocation minus any track record of prior purchase that annoys the hell out of me. IN a sense we are all paying for this guy to do this, we support the brand, he doesn't , yet gets access to the holy grail, why? I'm not aware of Porsche needing to appeal to a new demographic of skint teenagers, At least Chris Harris actually bought a GT3 4.0 with his own cash and drove it. I think this needs a bit of explanation form Porsche GB, otherwise the sales guys at local OPC's are in for a hard time the next time they trot out the old " sorry only for really good clients" If it is a press car on long term loan then say that. Do we have acces to Porsche GB for comment?
 
Hi Archied,
It's annoying as hell but explained in one word: publicity. Once upon a time car companies would have to spend millions on advertising. They now get it for free from YouTubers, such as this. Galling for the rest of us though. Not that I could ever afford to buy one!
Simon
 
We all know how it is possible but I do question why we accept it. After twenty years of buying new Porsches, I am seriously thinking of leaving the marque for this very reason. You want a car they produce, have the money to do it but the money goes to give these leeches a profit not to develop better cars. The real problem is where do you go because all the manufacturers are doing it!!
 
Yep
very annoying
i specced up a nice GT3RS sent it to my OPC who said a 991 GTS would be nice
they just said the one I wanted wasn't available they just didn't get my humour
I knew there was zero chance because after 6 porsche I wasn't "special " enough
grrrrr
 
It called greed!

All my Porsches were bought new from the OPC (except my second hand 964 also bought from the OPC).

I have never been offered any car and a couple of years ago I and a friend enquired about the Cayman GT4 and was told too late all their allocation gone. Within a month three more appeared via the OPC all being sold by the time we heard about them. I am obviously not one of the chosen ones!

Puts me off the brand as well, between Porsche and the OPC's everything is stitched up.

However what else is available for the money?
Cheers
 
Abandoning Porsche for another marque won't be the answer since they're all the same in my experience.
You just need to keep on trying.
Regards,

Clive


 
It's putting me off the brand as well...... I thought more of the company. You should be able to order... And get any vehicle that you want. It's not good marketing in my view... And Smee comes across as a complete knob.
 
I think Porsche are selling the family silver, that is customer brand loyalty, for short term gain. But it is the nature of the world we inhabit. A business model where OPC's sell new at list to those who are willing and trusted to sell back to the dealers and split the subsequent uplift, generates a lot of profit. The car is just a commodity, put on a pedstal, bought and sold by those with the money to trade and have little or no interest in driving them. On Porsche's own site there are GT4's with multiple owners and very few miles. It could be the same for other models.

Enthusiatic drivers are being priced out of these cars. You will take a big hit if you pay a premium and then use the car.

Having said all that, it will only change when the bubble bursts. Realistically McLarens are coming into range, Aston Martin, Mercedes, BMW and others have good competitive products and, for the most part, you can actually buy them.
 
McLaren seem to be using these types of guys for the majority of their 'free publicity'
As mentioned Tim got the 675LT (sold out) followed by JWW who is now selling his, all of which are the new style bloggers,
It just seems the way at the moment and swapping brands I don't think will make it less painful for you.

It is one of the things that has narked me of recent, but as said earlier - it's just free publicity to the manufacturers.
 
In thinking more about this issue it seems as though there is a degree of annoyance/resentment from loyal Porsche UK customers (LPUKC) that the allocation process for GT cars is not really a process but a fix. That is a real issue, and reading Clives response above where he recommends "keep trying" misses the point entirely. What does "keep trying" mean? Keep buying cars in the vain hope that one day, not sure when, the local OPC sales manager goes into work and decides to contact you to offer you a car? The definition of insanity is repeating and exercise over and over again expecting a different outcome.
My issue is not with these youtubers either as such, the issue lies clearly in the lack of honesty and clarity from Porsche via their 34 OPC's in the UK, as to how LPUKC's are to get access to the GT cars that they want to buy. If it is demonstrate loyalty by buying not GT cars and you'll get a car, then they have to stick to that and LPUKC's will see the fruits of their labor. However, it seems as though we each have a unique and thereby isolated relationship with our OPC from each other, and this is what allows the OPC's to either A) Follow the private guidance from Porsche head office on how to allocate and profit from GT car allocation or B) Deviate from what Porsche Head Office guide them to do re the allocation of GT cars.

I joined this club as it was the only "approved" owners club in the UK for Porsche. With that came certain expectations from me of the club. One of them is to act as a conduit for the members (14,700 at last count) directly to Porsche UK and Parent on certain important issues. Now the QC in me did look at the Constitution of the club which refers to the memorandum of association (MOA) of the company, i.e. Included in that is the business purpose of the club/company. That at first reading does not appear to be readily available to read but I'm sure could be added to the website. This train of thought is important as it goes back to what and why is the "club" in operation and does its "approved" description provide avenues for access and mediation of issues to Porsche UK or parent that others do not. My expectation was yes it should.

The UK bought 13,288 Porsche Cars in 2016, France bought 5,592, Italy 5,162, All of central Europe and Eastern Europe bought 5,550. Only China, USA, Germany bought more cars, so the UK in the world of Porsche is no rounding error: 5.5% of Global Sales in 2016 from one small island is not bad. The 34 OPC's delivered on average 32 cars each per month in 2016.

So what leverage can the PCGB provide its members who are considering leaving the brand as a result of "unexplained" (to use a word that appeared in the Enron final judgment over 2,000 times) practices in regard GT allocations. I've spent over 300k in the last 10 months on Porsche Cars and have come to the brand because I like the cars now more than before. I do not expect to be treated like a fool, I'd be happier if Porsche simply distanced themselves form what the OPC's are doing and stated its up to them hwo they allocate and make money form these GT cars, rather than taking to mainstream media and scolding the "spekulant" who buys to make money on GT cars.

To add to my lack of clarity on this issue this interview was posted recently http://www.automobilemag.com/news/klaus-zellmer-porsche-north-america-president-interview/ Here they state clearly that their aim is to make one less 911 than the market can take. Does that include GT cars?

So here is what I'd like to see as a member of PCGB, I'd like PCGB to formally approach PUK or P GMBH and get them to explain what the process is for GT allocation and how can that be policed to avoid LPUKC's leaving the brand. If they say it is only loyal long term or 918 clients who get access, then how come this guy and guy's like him Shmee gets a GT3? If it is a press car loan agreement then they should clarify that as this chap Shmee is presenting his purchase as just that a purchase with no track record other than another GT car, the GT4.

Such an approach should be in all our interests 1) PCGB members 2) PCGB seen to be representing its members akin to how it should do if this were say a safety issue with Porsche cars, which it is not but my basis is clear. and 3) Porsche, if it has nothing but our interests at heart ti can and should respond to an issue that is growing in prominence and relevance to the Porsche owning experience.

So who at PCGB can help actually move this forward towards a concrete outcome for all 14,700+ members.

With best intentions in what is a first world problem, as is of course NA engines versus Turbo, C2 versus C4 and Red versus Black, PCGB is capable of doing more on this issue.

Regards




 
Every manufacturer has a "preferred purchaser" list and these get first crack at limited edition models - it's a fact of life. If you'd previously spent £800K on the purchase of a 918, you would be looking for privileges too. Once these people have been given the opportunity, surplus units are offered elsewhere and if you've been badgering your PC continuously, you may be lucky (just ask Phil, the 991 RS). Hence my remark to keep trying (somewhat tongue in cheek, I admit).

Not sure what point you think I've missed. I've been a Porsche owner almost continuously since the 1970's and have purchased 14 new models from UK PC's including GT, but I still didn't get a 911R. I therefore find it irksome when visiting my local PC to see one in the showroom all covered up and unmoved since its delivery nearly 12 months ago.

However, we must live in the real world and no amount of ranting or petitions is going to change that. If you become bitter to the extent of abandoning the marque, you only put your own nose out of joint and will miss out on some of the wonderful main-stream models that are available.
Regards,

Clive
 
Morning Clive,

My saying your 'keep trying' recommendation missed the point; articulated or tried to say it missed the point I was making. Your of course entitled to keep trying and as you say you've spent the last 40 years compiling a strong tie with Porsche UK, yet even you can't get access to the cars you'd like to buy.

The point I'm making here is that as a collective in PCGB we should be able to make Porsche establish the ROE in regard these cars. Simple no more messing around. Interpreting a prior Porsche customer as being bitter and leaving the brand is a bit unfair I feel, dissatisfied is a better description and if PCGB won't take up the issue on behalf of the members then it makes sense to take their hard earned cash elsewhere. Accepting the status quo is not how progress is made. If the dealers are "selling" to mates, to have the GT cars re sold through them at a mark up over list and that shared etc it's a nonsense that needs brought out into the light. Clear ROE from Porsche would leave all clear to make their decisions based on those facts. Then when you here of the likes of shmee getting a car with no buying history certainly akin to yourself, well it takes a strong devotion to turn the other cheek in such a circumstance.

If I cant get to buy the cars I actually want to drive , despite buying cars to show commitment over time, its normal to go elsewhere. What I'm proposing is PCGB to get Porsche to address the issue, then if its clear Ill never get access to a GT car as I'd like , it will clear that up and we can all move on.

Regards


 
I would be happy to be proven wrong but have the general impression that Porsche Club GB is not necessarily an entirely independent organisation that would be prepared to take up members’ issues where those issues ran counter to the perceived interests of Porsche GB and PAG. Certainly, when it came to challenging the design of part of my 991.1 turbo S the club was not prepared to get involved at all. PGB just acted as a post box to PAG; and though PAG would not admit to any shortcomings at the time, the 991.2 turbo S shows a modification to address my original criticism.

The point which has always eluded me in this matter of halo cars is why Porsche don’t simply put the price up to the point where supply and demand are in balance, and collect the profit for themselves.

It is also worth saying that squabbling in the street to get an allocation is a relatively recent phenomenon. Porsche could hardly give away 997.2GT3; buyers of 918 were offered inducements, allegedly; and they only managed to sell 1270 CGT out of a planned 1500.

And it’s all very well to threaten to jump ship but where exactly are you going to jump to.

Take all of the above with the usual pinch of salt, I’m stuck at home waiting for the builders to turn up.

Nick

 
Archied said:
Please tell me I'm not overreacting but I find this type of news annoying in the extreme. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j4tAzkHwRM

This youtuber Shmee150 "buys" sports cars of the limited edition variety , blogs about them, flips them for more cash and repeats. He is a modern day Lamborghini poster for young men or older men who like him. Behind this facade however there is the screaming issue of how is he able to obtain allocations for so many limited edition cars? So when you look at his McLaren allocations they make sense , in that he gets LT cars because he has a track record of "buymoting" their cars before getting the limited edition cars. He has AMG GT R coming, New Ford GT coming, has an Aston GT8 but its the Porsche GT3 allocation that amazes me and at the same time annoys the hell out of me. Why? Well his only dalliance with Porsche was , yes a Cayman GT4, which he sold for profit back to an OPC . He has no affiliation or track record of buying or even liking Porsche 911's until recently. So when the lieks of you and I pop into the OPC and are told , only special loyal, long time clients get "asked" to buy a GT car we accept that and keep buying the stock variety Porsche in the hope perhaps that one dfay we may get "asked" to drop 100k plus on a car. Meanwhile, Shmee simply has to aks and gets a GT3 allocation on the back of a similar outrage on a GT4. What is it I'm not getting, we put up with all manner of nonsense and support the brand because we like the cars, yet Porsche UK dangle the fiction of access to a GT car only once loyal brand service has been served. Yet this bloke hs no such history and egst to own and flip these cars as he sees fit. It makes a mockery of the recent Porsche senior management coming out against this very thing. I don't care if he drives them a lot or not, its the access to allocation minus any track record of prior purchase that annoys the hell out of me. IN a sense we are all paying for this guy to do this, we support the brand, he doesn't , yet gets access to the holy grail, why? I'm not aware of Porsche needing to appeal to a new demographic of skint teenagers, At least Chris Harris actually bought a GT3 4.0 with his own cash and drove it. I think this needs a bit of explanation form Porsche GB, otherwise the sales guys at local OPC's are in for a hard time the next time they trot out the old " sorry only for really good clients" If it is a press car on long term loan then say that. Do we have acces to Porsche GB for comment?
Click to expand...


Shmee posted on pistonheads..

"In short, my allocation is not from a UK dealer, I just walked into a few OPCs on the continent and found one that had a slot for delivery at the New Year and paid my deposit immediately. It's also a PTS allocation so making full use of that.

This is only possible as the car will be living at my place in Germany that I am moving to very shortly, it's not going to be a UK car at any point in its life."
 
Archied said:
...I joined this club as it was the only "approved" owners club in the UK for Porsche. With that came certain expectations from me of the club. One of them is to act as a conduit for the members (14,700 at last count) directly to Porsche UK and Parent on certain important issues. Now the QC in me did look at the Constitution of the club which refers to the memorandum of association (MOA) of the company, i.e. Included in that is the business purpose of the club/company. That at first reading does not appear to be readily available to read but I'm sure could be added to the website. This train of thought is important as it goes back to what and why is the "club" in operation and does its "approved" description provide avenues for access and mediation of issues to Porsche UK or parent that others do not. My expectation was yes it should.
Click to expand...



As you are a QC, please accept my sincere apologies in advance. My observations as a humble criminal duty solicitor can merely be taken with the weight that you choose to attach.

If you are vaguely serious about your observations (rather than enjoying a little sport) then a good starting point for contact points within the Club would be myself or our phenomenal General Manager, Chris Seaward.

The Club's Articles are readily available to all on our website. Separately, we now have publicised membership levels hitting the 18,000 level. As evidenced by the logo below, we are a Porsche AG approved Club, indeed, we were the 22nd. That figure now runs well in to 3 figures but does not extend to TIPEC or most Facebook / social media groups. We value it greatly.

Porsche GB has a very strong relationship with the Club. Porsche GB does not however own all British Porsche dealerships. What it is capable of influencing is a matter of fact and law that is way beyond my specialism.

It is, in my view, wholly unrealistic to expect that PCGB has any mandate to influence Porsche GB as to who to sell cars to that they could sell many times over.

As chairman of the club, I am not going to bang on the door of my local dealer asking "don't you know who I am?" so that I can order a halo car that will increase in value the moment I get the keys.

In short, I am afraid that your expectations of the Club are unrealistic.

If you (genuinely) only joined the Club because you felt that it would increase your chances of being allocated a super desirable car then please contact me directly and I will happily give you a full refund. Otherwise, I sincerely hope that you get very much pleasure from your membership, we have a lot to offer.

Best wishes.

 
Rob,

Thanks for the note; I think my suggestion of PCGB approaching PGB to get clarity on how these cars are to be allocated has ruffled more feathers than is merited. Nowhere did I suggest I joined the club to increase my chances of getting a GT allocation, no where. (I think your having a little fun at my expense in saying that, the offer of a refund was a bit silly in support and not required. )

I'm not going to remake my point, however I think the collective of Porsche owners as is represented via the club should not shy away from asking simple commercial clarity from Porsche GB. It's never an easy process to accept that a new issue requires a change in approach or a difficult conversation. I'm sensing strongly that this is not an issue PCGB wants to address. You won't hear from me on such matters again.

I'll politely bow to the bench on this matter.

Regards
 
Perhaps I put two and two together and made five, apologies.

Like pupillages in Barristers' Chambers, the demand far for Porsche's halo cars outstrips the supply and a number of good people are always going to be left disappointed.

Unlike the pupillages, it is a relatively new phenomenon. When I purchased my Boxster Spyder in 2010, it was sitting in the showroom, built to my dealer's spec and nobody wanted it. Fast forward to 2016 and the next generation Spyder was commanding a £20k premium on release. I think Porsche GB do their best within the parameters available to them. There is no easy answer.

Going back to your original post, I read on Pistonheads that "Shmee" purchased his car in Germany and intends to use and keep it there.
 
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