3.2 First Impressions
- Thread starter DivineE
- Start date
DivineE
New member
[
]I like the way this is going but as for the v8 sorry but it just doesnt appeal to me. the 944 is about balance and track driving as much as comfort and practicality. with the lighter internals the 3.2 is if anything, lighter than standard and keeps the car as it should be. i love the sound of a v8 as much as anyone but to me the 3.2 is just a way of fixing all the weak points in the standard engine so that you can take the normal excepted tuning to a new level. its not about conversions for me. if i wanted to do that i wouldnt use a Porsche. as for speed i dont know but id be surprised if even a nicely done LS1 conversion could match the acceleration. I would definitely be interested in finding out though if someone is interested in a test once my car is fully run in? i definitely believe its as quick as the tvr v8 i went out in. even now!
]I like the way this is going but as for the v8 sorry but it just doesnt appeal to me. the 944 is about balance and track driving as much as comfort and practicality. with the lighter internals the 3.2 is if anything, lighter than standard and keeps the car as it should be. i love the sound of a v8 as much as anyone but to me the 3.2 is just a way of fixing all the weak points in the standard engine so that you can take the normal excepted tuning to a new level. its not about conversions for me. if i wanted to do that i wouldnt use a Porsche. as for speed i dont know but id be surprised if even a nicely done LS1 conversion could match the acceleration. I would definitely be interested in finding out though if someone is interested in a test once my car is fully run in? i definitely believe its as quick as the tvr v8 i went out in. even now!At this stage I'd have to agree with Ben. As much as one of those V8 conversions sounds like a great swap and possibly a lot less headaches, I want to see what we can get out of these babies before I fold my hand. When you guys experience the extra torque out of the big bore i4 you will be surprised, even shocked just how much grunt our little cars are capable of. We associate V8's with having all the tq but 400-500tq out of a 4 banger will give you plenty of low to mid-range grunt AND stay in the family.
Diver944
Active member
I would love to have a V8 conversion as I think the only thing lacking with a 944 is the engine note. Not the volume but a deep V8 rumble that you will never get from a 4 pot. As for price, well I know that Jon wants to keep the 3.2's as a pretty exclusive package and he'll never really make any money on them because of the amount of time it took to develop mine and the other two.
When 911 & Porsche World did the article on mine they interviewed Jon and quoted a retail price for any further 3.2 engines would be £10500 as a finished article, but if you wanted big Turbos, MAF kits and other ancilliaries they would be more. For comparison mine made 350bhp and 450lbft just from the engine running at 15psi but strangled through the standard Airflow meter with a standard airfilter and exhaust. A MAF kit upped that to 393bhp and 480lbft at 17psi.
I wonder if Ben's will be the first UK 500bhp 944 []
When 911 & Porsche World did the article on mine they interviewed Jon and quoted a retail price for any further 3.2 engines would be £10500 as a finished article, but if you wanted big Turbos, MAF kits and other ancilliaries they would be more. For comparison mine made 350bhp and 450lbft just from the engine running at 15psi but strangled through the standard Airflow meter with a standard airfilter and exhaust. A MAF kit upped that to 393bhp and 480lbft at 17psi.
I wonder if Ben's will be the first UK 500bhp 944 [
]
sawood12
New member
Well Paul I think the sound of your car on full chat at Bedford was just about the best sound i've heard from any man-made object. It sounded like a wailing Banshee with her hair on fire. If you car had been leading armies into battle it would have put the fear of god up the enemy and they would have turned tail and ran for their lives. Much more interesting than a boring V8 rumble! More like an F15 with a Sidewinder on its tail.
So £10500 basically gets you the built short engine without a turbo? or with the 'small' turbo fitted to yours?
So £10500 basically gets you the built short engine without a turbo? or with the 'small' turbo fitted to yours?
George Elliott
New member
I'll second that Scott, the boosted drone of the turbo power plant every time, Pauls car reminded me of the Walter Rohrl in-car camera and the 1986 Audi quattro swb rally car.
This engine needs a name, lets hear some suggestions, can I start with the 9xx gruppe B 3.2 litre
George
944T
964rs
This engine needs a name, lets hear some suggestions, can I start with the 9xx gruppe B 3.2 litre
George
944T
964rs
DivineE
New member
[
][][]Don't say that! Paul will go MAD! Size isn't everything.. Paul's turbo is 10times better (and more expensive) than my turbo. Mine is still nice quality as all of Simon's bits are but it doesn't have all the fancy ball bearing bits and quick spool inlet and stuff its just a common old basic and simple MuHuge turbo . Only reason its larger is because no one could really have predicted what a massive effect the new internals would have on spooling up the turbo. No way a 3.2 six cylinder would get on boost this fast (just look at the puny turbo on the 911[]) Paul wanted a torque monster track car so John didn't want to go too big and get it wrong. It's just a freak of nature that my car seems to produce boost from idle without lag and I must admit its nowhere near as smooth as Paul's sophisticated turbo, it is going to be terrible for traction once its actually got some boost going through it! It already felt like being smacked in the face be a burly Scottish bloke!
To add to the comments on sound I have to say it does make my inner (and outer) child smile when I release the throttle a bit too sharply and the front of the car drops back down to that familiar chooo..chatter..chatter that you get from all silly tuned turbo's. it IS a good noise although it was quite quiet at the moment because there isn't much boost for it to disperse.
Regards,
Ben
p.s. I like the Group B name but I think perhaps given the small number of cars that will be produced perhaps individual names would be better (like fine instruments)
I vote Paul's car should be the 9xx Special Edition Ballistic Blue 3.2 (even rhymes)[
]
Diver944
Active member
Going down to see my car on Friday []. The bodyshop finally seem to have got their finger out and are pretty confident it will be finished, let's hope I'm happy with it this time. I can't resist popping down the road to see Bens car whilst I'm down there and Jon tells me the third 3.2 is also in the workshop and the owner is going the whole hog from the outset. A very big ball bearing turbo, a 4" inch exhaust system, full standalone EMS, Speedforceracing intake AND exhaust manifolds []
He is hoping (no expecting) to hit the 600bhp mark!!!!
Back to earth for a moment, they are also working on a Turbo Cab ball bearing turbo, vitesse MAF, 3.0 inch exhaust, vitesse piggyback and the local Dyno Dynamics RR has tested it at 393bhp and 385lbft. More tuning time is planned this week to try and get some 4's on the front of those figures.
I'm looking forward to my trip to the seaside [8D]
]. The bodyshop finally seem to have got their finger out and are pretty confident it will be finished, let's hope I'm happy with it this time. I can't resist popping down the road to see Bens car whilst I'm down there and Jon tells me the third 3.2 is also in the workshop and the owner is going the whole hog from the outset. A very big ball bearing turbo, a 4" inch exhaust system, full standalone EMS, Speedforceracing intake AND exhaust manifolds []He is hoping (no expecting) to hit the 600bhp mark!!!!
Back to earth for a moment, they are also working on a Turbo Cab ball bearing turbo, vitesse MAF, 3.0 inch exhaust, vitesse piggyback and the local Dyno Dynamics RR has tested it at 393bhp and 385lbft. More tuning time is planned this week to try and get some 4's on the front of those figures.
I'm looking forward to my trip to the seaside [8D]
DivineE
New member
I dont see why you would 'need' to uprate the brakes as such because even the standard brakes are very very good for a car that only wieghs 1300kg, way more than you'd ever get from other manufacuters but yes with the extra power the temptation would be to push the boundaries so a brake upgrade could be necessary on the track (see Paul's 3.2 thread)
Regards,
Ben
p.s. I wouldn't normally bother mentioning it here but time is short and I need these cars gone now so here is lot no. 1[] its a Mk2 Gti project I've been messing about with. Bought the bits over a few months trying to create the fastest track day golf I could for a budget (so I wouldn't cry if it got wrecked) I definately don't think you'll find a quicker car for less now! ...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/340364.htm
and my other other car which was bought to get me back to work sooner after my accident it is without doubt the best condition car I've ever owned so if your after one it will certainly make someone very happy...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/379268.htm
sometimes you have to forget about loss and think about what is important.. this is one of those times!
Regards,
Ben
p.s. I wouldn't normally bother mentioning it here but time is short and I need these cars gone now so here is lot no. 1[
] its a Mk2 Gti project I've been messing about with. Bought the bits over a few months trying to create the fastest track day golf I could for a budget (so I wouldn't cry if it got wrecked) I definately don't think you'll find a quicker car for less now! ...http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/340364.htm
and my other other car which was bought to get me back to work sooner after my accident it is without doubt the best condition car I've ever owned so if your after one it will certainly make someone very happy...
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/379268.htm
sometimes you have to forget about loss and think about what is important.. this is one of those times!
sawood12
New member
Not so sure I agree with you there on the brakes Ben. Don't forget the reason why Pauls car is in the shop is because his M030 medium blacks appeard not to be upto the job. If you look at the power and torque levels your cars are at compared with the weight and compare to similarly weighted and powered modern machinery you are right up there knocking on the door of GT3 territory. So get saving up for those 6-pots!!
Diver944
Active member
I would go for 996 or even GT3 callipers if I could find a commercially available adaptor kit but the only one's I have seen fitted to 951's are using custom made one off adaptors that are not openly for sale []. The Big Blacks offer roughly the same pad and disk area and they are a direct bolt on to our hubs but they are a MUCH heavier calliper. I need to make my decision this week as to which way to go, but it's looking like Big Blacks.
For road use I believe our medium blacks are up to the job as long as you are not stopping from 3 figure speeds repeatedly and constantly over a 20 minute period like you would on track. I think I sealed my own fate two days before my Snetterton failure, by removing the 3" ducting through my front bumper to the back of the brake disk. The new wheels I had just fitted were 9" and looked like the clearance was a bit tight to the ducting which was also looking a bit tired after three years. I intended to replace it before the next trackday that I ran at full power and thought I was safe at Snetters because I was only running 12psi and circa 320bhp. Hindsight is great [8|]
]. The Big Blacks offer roughly the same pad and disk area and they are a direct bolt on to our hubs but they are a MUCH heavier calliper. I need to make my decision this week as to which way to go, but it's looking like Big Blacks.For road use I believe our medium blacks are up to the job as long as you are not stopping from 3 figure speeds repeatedly and constantly over a 20 minute period like you would on track. I think I sealed my own fate two days before my Snetterton failure, by removing the 3" ducting through my front bumper to the back of the brake disk. The new wheels I had just fitted were 9" and looked like the clearance was a bit tight to the ducting which was also looking a bit tired after three years. I intended to replace it before the next trackday that I ran at full power and thought I was safe at Snetters because I was only running 12psi and circa 320bhp. Hindsight is great [8|]
George Elliott
New member
My school of thought is Brakes cannot overcome physics Scott, you can stop the wheel but that won't necessarily stop the car.
Will PCCB bolt straight onto a late off-set 944? - Lovely pictures.
George
944t
964
Will PCCB bolt straight onto a late off-set 944? - Lovely pictures.
George
944t
964
Diver944
Active member
The standard transmission is believed to be able to handle 500bhp/500lbft with ease and there are many cars in the US that exceed this figure (some of them racecars that get hammered much more than our mere track toys) . How long it lasts is another matter and we shall obviously discover this over the next few years [] (hopefully many years before we do the discovering)
PCCB or any brakes from 996 onwards will not bolt directly onto 944 hubs. Adaptors are needed but none seem to be commercially available at the moment []
] (hopefully many years before we do the discovering)PCCB or any brakes from 996 onwards will not bolt directly onto 944 hubs. Adaptors are needed but none seem to be commercially available at the moment [
]I may be speaking from ignorance here (woo-hoo! What's new!) but adaptors are surely little more than a carefully measured and enigneered bit of billet alu, surely?
Given that the calipers themselves don't slide, this should make the engineering even easier?
(I appreciate that brakes are not the sort of thing to be taking risks with, and when you need them you tend to need them quite badly.)
Oli.
Given that the calipers themselves don't slide, this should make the engineering even easier?
(I appreciate that brakes are not the sort of thing to be taking risks with, and when you need them you tend to need them quite badly.)
Oli.
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