718 Cayman GT4 is here – at long last.!

[Motorhead]

Quite so Nick.!

Speaking of which, I would imagine that you're soon to take delivery of your new GT4. How long is it taking these days from final assembly to delivery? I seem to recall that the last time Caymans were built in Osnabrück the cars were shipped down to Stuttgart for final inspection/sign-off and then transported back up to the port for shipping to the the UK.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

That was an odd routing, Osnabruck is relatively close to Emden.

 

[Motorhead]

That was my take on it too Ralph.

Presumably there was some administration or logistics issue which meant shipping the cars south and then back north again. Not exactly in line with Porsche's green credentials?

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Jeff,

I recall when I was there in 2015 Osnabruck had recently been “subcontracted“ to build 120 Caymans per week as an overflow from Stuttgart. It may have been the case that they were under probation as a VW plant in the early phase of building Porsches?

 

[Motorhead]

Yes, that sounds logical Ralph. Maybe this time around it won't be necessary, although I would have thought that the previous operatives would either have been laid-off or moved to other work?

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

But hasn’t Osnabruck been used by Porsche for some time now?

 

[Motorhead]

Ralph,

I'm not absolutely sure but I've a feeling that the released Osnabrück capacity was used for Cayenne production, so many of the Cayman assemblers should still be there. I don't know if a new line has been started for Cayman production - you've been there so probably have a better take on potential excess capacity at the plant.

Incidentally, in a long forgotten post did you say that Osnabrück actually builds the bodies; they're not just an assembly plant? If that's the case, I assume that they also have a paint plant?

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Jeff,

Back in 2015 when I was young... they said that they were to get Cayenne assembly from Leipzig so Porsche could move more Paramara assembly work from Bratislava to Leipzig, as I recall, and yes they pressed body panels and built the body in white on a robotic welding cell. I don't recall the paint shop as the tour just followed the assembly process.

Ralph

 

[Motorhead]

Ralph,

Rather odd if they build the BIW there then have to ship it to Stuttgart for painting and then back to Osnabrück for final assembly, so maybe they do have a paint plant - a hangover from VW days perhaps? That would be a very significant investment though, unless they're also doing Cayenne paint work.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Jeff,

Not saying there wasn't one, just never saw it. I've never seen the one at Stuttgart either on any of the factory tours I've been on.

Ralph

 

[Motorhead]

Ralph,

I doubt they let any visitor groups near paint plants - potentially hazardous places with a lot of H&S requirements.

Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

Ralph,

I found this item from Jan 2019 which gives some info on the plant (it seems that they do have a paint shop) and what they produce - this was before 718 Cayman production was started in September.

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/volkswagen-osnabrueck-gmbh-367

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Jeff,

Good to see the Karmann Ghia cabriolet legacy continuing.

Ralph

 

[Motorhead]

While browsing the web the other day I came across this link on car body torsional rigidity:

http://youwheel.com/home/2016/06/20/car-body-torsional-rigidity-a-comprehensive-list/

I can't vouch for the validity of the site's sources, but it's interesting to look at the values for various Porsche sports cars. The addition of a roof to the Boxster more than doubles the torsional stiffness (this will also apply to the Spyder versus the GT4), and you can see the significant gains made between the original 987 and the current 718. Note that the Cayman is also stiffer than the latest 992 coupé.

Jeff

 

[Brian_Innes]

Just for interest in these dark gloomy days, I had go on the configurator speccing my ideal GT4. The final total amounted to over £92,000, from a base price of £75.000. In agreement with previous comments, Porsche have a nerve charging extra for folding door mirrors, automatic climate control, rain sensing wipers, auto dimming mirrors and cruise control on a car costing £75k. No wonder the attributable profits to Porsche are in the region of 40% per car. I recall the days of the early 911 GT3 when such things as a choice of gear ratios were offered to customers. Now it's all about carbon trim, leather stitching, and other cosmetic additions. I would rather Porsche offered additional adjustable suspension features such as ride height, bump and rebound adjustments, rose jointed track control arms etc. For the experienced track day owner these extras would be worth a reasonable premium. Instead all customers are offered these days are the cosmetic stuff such as LED headlights and painted logos. I guess I'm laying myself open the "grumpy old man" accusation again, which I accept may be quite true. Maybe it's a seasonal thing.

Finally on the topic of torsional chassis stiffness, it is unsurprising that the 718 Cayman is more torsionally rigid than the 992 Coupé. The mid-engined platform by design is more torsionally rigid than the 911 with the engine hanging away out at the back.

Brian

 

[Motorhead]

Yes, it's so easy to get carried away with Porsche's option list Brian. It's all very well until you realise that you have to pay for it..!

On that topic, on my weekly jaunt over to PH I see that Twinfan Dave has let the cat out of the bag over his GT4 spec: launch colour Racing Yellow, but he's saved £5.6k by passing on the PCCBs. I'm sure you'll have something to say about that; but in fairness, those huge GT3 cast iron brakes are more than fit for purpose.

Jeff

 

[ChrisW]

Blimey, you're starting to sound like a bunch of grumpy old men - cheer up you lot!

We can still drive our petrol cars, for now, so we should enjoy whatever our particular flavour of choice is []

I completely agree

 

[ChrisW]

Yes, it's so easy to get carried away with Porsche's option list Brian. It's all very well until you realise that you have to pay for it..!

On that topic, on my weekly jaunt over to PH I see that Twinfan Dave has let the cat out of the bag over his GT4 spec: launch colour Racing Yellow, but he's saved £5.6k by passing on the PCCBs. I'm sure you'll have something to say about that; but in fairness, those huge GT3 cast iron brakes are more than fit for purpose.

Jeff

The steel brake are unquestionably up to the job ... in a way that they weren't on the Cayman R and 987 Spyder.

PCCB's have genuinely become a question of choice rather than performance ... maybe in extremis.

Given that "the doubters" passion for Porsche is proven over many years and for many reasons, we can only hope that Porsche have a mind open to the modifiers view

For the moment, we are on our own ... which appeals to me more than spending a lot more money on a GT3 RS ... it's a very big car !

 

[Fletch88]

So I’ve been following the post re:-718 GT4 for some time now and to be honest, I’m very confused with the so called expert opinions of those that have obviously not driven the car or even seen one. There are some valued contributors, although I’m finding it

more and more depressing as I thought that this site was meant to be one of support and not one where people continually bitch about things that actually make others feel bad rather than feeling good about their decisions and spec selections. If I had bought and spec’d a car to what I wanted for what ever reason and had shared it with a forum of supposedly likeminded people, I would be devastated to hear from those that are just happy pouring out negative comments from jealously or thinking that they have the answer to everything

A Few points to consider for all

How would you feel if you’d spent your hard earned or saved cash on your dream only for someone to pour scorn on it (pretty bad I guess)

if porsche was your company would you give all the extras away? Yes it costs money, if it didn’t then everyone would drive one and the cars would become run of the mill Daewoo's (you don't go into Porsche ownership expecting cheap motoring unless you are blind)

petrol cars will not be disappearing anytime soon. As the previous post says enjoy them while you can

if you really hate porsche and their business methods then talk with your feet and go somewhere else

I support all those that have been lucky enough to get one and whatever colour and spec they have chosen - yes I have opinions, but I respect each and everyone else’s so keep them

to myself

spec it, buy it, enjoy it and stick your fingers up to those who perhaps don’t understand how their thoughts impact others

 

[Twinfan]

On that topic, on my weekly jaunt over to PH I see that Twinfan Dave has let the cat out of the bag over his GT4 spec: launch colour Racing Yellow, but he's saved £5.6k by passing on the PCCBs. I'm sure you'll have something to say about that; but in fairness, those huge GT3 cast iron brakes are more than fit for purpose.

Morning all [] My reasoning on my spec, for what it's worth...

PCCBs, for me, are reasonably priced as an option but the potential replacement cost due to damage is crazy at around £10k per axle. The damage risk may be small, depending on your point of view, but as over 10% of the value of the car right now (more as the car ages and value drops) then you've got to really want them to spec them. I was originally choosing them for looks alone to match my Crayon and yellow colour scheme, and have spent two weeks being mithered by the "what if" running round my mind. I don't want that in my head every time I drive the car. I've driven the PEC 981 GT4 with PCCBs twice and didn't feel the brakes were all that special over and above a good steel setup (which the GT4 has). I also asked my consultants about them on both occasions, and neither were raving about them. I've done my research and the benefits seem highly debatable; as I said on PH they seem to be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in non-race driving. The joke of it is, no-one specs PCCBs for track work due to increased wear and replacement cost! So I'm going for steel.

Changing the colour of my car from Crayon to yellow, removing PCCBs and removing black wheels is saving over £8k. Come resale, I doubt I'd only get a small amount, if any, of that back so I'd be throwing away money. Not very sensible in the current economic climate I don't think and I'm not made of money.

Finally, it's a GT car with a wing and a subtle colour doesn't really seem in-keeping with the ethos of the car for my tastes. I read an article a while back on the department that designs the colour schemes at Porsche and it's all very carefully worked out. I love the 718 GT4 in yellow, and it makes me smile, and if Porsche think it's the colour to use on their website and in all the promotional material then they must be of a similar opinion. Like the GT3RS in Lizard Green, or my wife's mk3 Focus RS in Nitrous Blue, it's the signature colour for the car. I'm a reasonably young guy who loves Motorsport so I'm going for a 'loud' GT4 and I'm pretty sure neither it nor I will look out of place when we're out and about.

Vive la difference!