944 Turbo S Engine Rebuild Thread

[924Srr27l]

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the car or how the car runs...

Making changes and NOT Setting the parameters 100% is crucial to get the best which if this is not the goal I don't understand why
some people do half a job?

From the finished build my car I did 750 miles in 3 days on purpose because the only Dyno date was either 3 days after install or 2 months! as Wayne is always chokka
(Running in Oil for 100 miles, and a specific method of running the motor loading it HARD but not revving above 4000rpm)

In these 750 Road miles (A, B & Motorway roads) and also 5 hours solid as Lindsey Racing told me to do this long duration, NOT short runs the car ran well
the only issue was it wouldn't idle without a foot holding it !

BUT, at the dyno Wayne found 18% more torque and 15% more BHP

My point is I may of not thought it needed a dyno run as it ran well, but I'm more than aware that such a thing does (Down to my Racing experience I'd say)

So you could and I'm sure you are missing a chunk of extra power Pete!

R

 

[James0]

Sorry, can't resist, is there any point chasing every last bit of torque on a turbocharged 80s road car?
I see why you'd want every little gain on a N/A race car Roger, but on a turbo road car not so much. If it's fast enough, it's fast enough.

 

[924Srr27l]

Sorry, can't resist, is there any point chasing every last bit of torque on a turbocharged 80s road car?
I see why you'd want every little gain on a N/A race car Roger, but on a turbo road car not so much. If it's fast enough, it's fast enough.

You are Kidding! ???? read this thread from start to finish, does it look like Eldavio is speccing the engine with so many different types of component and detail
to have an engine that 's 10 even 15+ % short of the correct tune!

Is there any Point you say? do you not have any idea how much money these engine tuning ventures cost ?? Why on earth would anyone do all this
to be satisfied coming up short by a considerable margin!

I can understand a 944 turbo owner being content with a standard 30 year old car, and not wanting to change or modify anything, as also they being happy enough with the
performance, but some people want and can handle and use more power (Some want but can't use it but this is another subject!)

R

 

[Eldavo]

Ironically, I’m intending to run it most of the time at 80% of what its capable of - for now at least.

Gives me the opportunity to get plenty of miles on it with plenty of component headroom while I decide on what turbo to go for. Then it’ll definitely be an unstressed 400+


So many things have changed during this build that I’ll have to rejig the map a fair bit before even heading to the dyno. PSH’s car is fundamentally the same as it was when mapped so there’s not much point paying Wayne Schofield another £650 + VAT for a day’s mapping plus the hassle of getting the car up and back. (Although if you did want to, he’s got plenty of availability starting 18th Jan).

I’ve already made a bit of a start on the boost lookup table and will tweak that and the PID values when I can get some logging done. Swapping notes with the guy who will be doing the final dyno tuning as he’s currently mapping his own car on a stand-alone system too. I can get it to spool about 500rpm sooner and hold a flat torque curve up to about 5400, that should help make it "real world” faster than a peaky dyno queen.

Most of the progress on these cars happens outside these hallowed walls, currently trying to help a friend map in a meth/water injection system that should help him towards his 500bhp target on a 2.5 engine.

These cars are quick, not fast. Heck, I could probably take my wife’s new S3 and show a 944T a clean pair of heels down a country road.

 

[James0]

I think I came across wrong, I'm all for the mods and an interesting build, my car is nothing like standard .
It could also do with a bit of Dyno time due to some knock off boost and maybe a better turbo etc etc

However once done as PSHs car is then chasing marginal gains on the Dyno seems a waste.

I like headroom myself too I keep it dialed back a bit. Helps with traction on our lumpy roads.

 

[blade7]

These cars are quick, not fast. Heck, I could probably take my wife’s new S3 and show a 944T a clean pair of heels down a country road.

A pal of mine has got a mapped RS3, I'd say were fairly equal drivers. He was quite surprised that there was little difference between our cars on a long country road thrash. I'd say the 944 was better in the faster corners, while the gearbox in the Audi helped him in and out of the slower corners.

 

[924Srr27l]

So many things have changed during this build so there’s not much point paying Wayne Schofield another £650 + VAT for a day’s mapping plus the hassle of getting the car up and back. (Although if you did want to, he’s got plenty of availability starting 18th Jan).

I can get it to spool about 500rpm sooner and hold a flat torque curve up to about 5400, that should help make it "real world” faster than a peaky dyno queen.

These cars are quick, not fast.

- Oh quick but not Fast ....what's the difference?
- 2.5 Hours @ Wayne's is £250+vat unless you need twice or three times this?
- The Covid and winter time has considerably reduced his current lead times smart a*se.
- If you think it's a hassle getting a car to a TOP tuner to tune then he's not for you, probably a good thing your doing a DIY job !
- I also agree so many things have changed during your build and they will keep this thread
busy for a few years.... I think the DIY SPORT is getting more popular these days than actually driving a car's performance , probably because there's only so much you go do on public roads even in an Audi S3!

It's a Shame Porsche GB didn't contact you a few years ago to tune the 924 Carrera GTP as they had issues getting it to run properly.

R

 

[924Srr27l]

These cars are quick, not fast. Heck, I could probably take my wife’s new S3 and show a 944T a clean pair of heels down a country road.

A pal of mine has got a mapped RS3, I'd say were fairly equal drivers. He was quite surprised that there was little difference between our cars on a long country road thrash. I'd say the 944 was better in the faster corners, while the gearbox in the Audi helped him in and out of the slower corners.

Oh....... is that the model with 255 width front Tyres and 235 rears?

R

 

[PSH]

Wasn't it Wayne who sorted the GTP out? or was that some other Porsche? BTW you won't map a turbo properly in 2 1/2 hours. IIRC Wayne had mine on the rollers from approx 11am till 6 pm, there's a lot more tunning possibilities on a turbo.

 

[Eldavo]

Now you’re just misquoting me and being abusive. I was speaking about PSH not requiring the effort of a full day’s mapping and quoting availability for him, nowt smart a*se about being helpful to another member. Think you’ve got a dose of the Carly Simons and you think that everything is about you.


Again, didn’t say I’m doing a DIY job did I? Said I was doing some of it myself and remotely in consultation with the guy who will be ultimately mapping the car. Hence you make yourself look foolish (once more) with your barbed comments about the 924 GTP.

This thread will continue as a far more useful resource without your misinformation, ill judged comments and inappropriate interaction. I’m loathe to block you on here as it does break a thread up but I will politely but firmly request you stay in your own lane and if you wish to comment about your car, you do it in your own thread.

 

[924Srr27l]

Wasn't it Wayne who sorted the GTP out? or was that some other Porsche? BTW you won't map a turbo properly in 2 1/2 hours. IIRC Wayne had mine on the rollers from approx 11am till 6 pm, there's a lot more tunning possibilities on a turbo.

He did sort the GTP Yes, as he also did take some time (10am- 7pm) to sort my mapping range out and I've no boost being propelled!
I bet that didn't cost you £700 then ?

R

 

[924Srr27l]

Again, didn’t say I’m doing a DIY job did I? Said I was doing some of it myself and remotely in consultation with the guy who will be ultimately mapping the car.

Halfway house can often be the worst thing ! I can tell you now if you did go to Wayne and told him that you've set up some of the settings etc...but you want him to check , ammend and basically do
it properly! .......His Eyes will Roll! [8|] I've had this conversation with him many times! Maybe your right why it could be a 8 hour expense as there's so much to go through.

R

 

[PSH]

He did sort the GTP Yes, as he also did take some time (10am- 7pm) to sort my mapping range out and I've no boost being propelled!
I bet that didn't cost you £700 then ?

R

Nope, mine cost £500, he only charged me the same price that he did 7 years earlier...he's a nice chap...

 

[PSH]

Again, didn’t say I’m doing a DIY job did I? Said I was doing some of it myself and remotely in consultation with the guy who will be ultimately mapping the car.

Halfway house can often be the worst thing ! I can tell you now if you did go to Wayne and told him that you've set up some of the settings etc...but you want him to check , ammend and basically do
it properly! .......His Eyes will Roll! [8|] I've had this conversation with him many times! Maybe your right why it could be a 8 hour expense as there's so much to go through.

R

Roger, Wayne might roll his eyes at you but that's not my experience. All of my mods were done by either myself or my son, in fact my son has rewired a lot of the engine loom and it was he who wired in the piggyback and added the closed loop among other things before Wayne did the last tune. Wayne has never rolled his eyes at our work.

 

[924Srr27l]

He did sort the GTP Yes, as he also did take some time (10am- 7pm) to sort my mapping range out and I've no boost being propelled!
I bet that didn't cost you £700 then ?
R

Nope, mine cost £500, he only charged me the same price that he did 7 years earlier...he's a nice chap...

Wow £500 !! , he is a nice chap but now even more ! but then I'm in the Trade......

R

 

[924Srr27l]

Halfway house can often be the worst thing ! I can tell you now if you did go to Wayne and told him that you've set up some of the settings etc...but you want him to check , ammend and basically do
it properly! .......His Eyes will Roll! [8|] I've had this conversation with him many times! Maybe your right why it could be a 8 hour expense as there's so much to go through.
R

Roger, Wayne might roll his eyes at you but that's not my experience. All of my mods were done by either myself or my son, in fact my son has rewired a lot of the engine loom and it was he who wired in the piggyback and added the closed loop among other things before Wayne did the last tune. Wayne has never rolled his eyes at our work.

Oh no there was no reason for Eye rolling on my Engine the build and assembly was all done by an Engineering professional outfit that Wayne knows and works with.....
I didn't realise you built, mapped, modified and installed you engine.

R

 

[PSH]

Yep...all home grown, but then I'm not your average DIY'er and my son is an excellent car tech in all departments...there's nothing average about his abilities

 

[924Srr27l]

Ahh that's why you didn't get the Wayne Eyes Roll!

About Average A+ ........but your diagnosis about your son sounds like a Carl Simon record again![]

R

 

[John Sims]

Welcome back Rodger.

Please have a bit of consideration and respect for other forum users. This is Eldavo's thread where he is documenting the modifications to his car. It isn't just another opportunity for you to tell everyone how wonderful your car is. You have your own threads all over the internet for that.

We further aren't really interested in how you know everyone, and everything about everything, and anything that isn't Rodger's way is inferior. I am sure Eldavo would be far happier if you didn't comment at all if you are just going to say "Oh, you did that, did you? Well I think it would have been much better if you had done what I did which was..." which seems to be the gist of your most recent posts.

In closing I would remind my forum chums that you can opt for the forum to hide peoples posts if they get on your nerves and spoil your forum using enjoyment.

 

[Eldavo]

Well put John.


I’ll update on Monday when hopefully the engine is back where it belongs.


Have a great weekend everyone and hope the latest Boris announcement hasn’t inconvenienced too many people.