944 Turbo S Engine Rebuild Thread

[924Srr27l]

Also stripped down the cam tower as my DIY paint job just wasn‘t cutting it anymore so off to the powder coaters it went:

Is this picture showing the Cam done ? although the paint looks thin which is a good thing for dissipating HEAT, Powder is too thick really and holds in the HEAT too much
If it's gone to an industrial powder coater make sure the bolt holes are cleaned back to bare metal as any thickness here will make the bolts loosen
even with spring washers (This is all something I've done / experienced and learnt)
EG: I had loads of Powder on mine and the bolts kept coming loose / the engine was getting too HOT (When Racing) and the coating was not helping....

R

 

[Eldavo]

Thanks Roger, it’s gone to a specialist powder coater with a long list of specifics for the reasons you describe.


They were chosen to powder coat Donald Campbell’s Bluebird restoration project when it was pulled out of Windermere for their expertise in working with delicate items. They‘ll be doing my 1966 Triumph Tiger 90 frame parts soon too.


Picture is my rattle can respray, looked good when just done but hasn’t held up particularly well.

 

[924Srr27l]

Thanks Roger, it’s gone to a specialist powder coater with a long list of specifics for the reasons you describe.
They were chosen to powder coat Donald Campbell’s Bluebird restoration project when it was pulled out of Windermere for their expertise in working with delicate items. They‘ll be doing my 1966 Triumph Tiger 90 frame parts soon too.
Picture is my rattle can respray, looked good when just done but hasn’t held up particularly well.

Powder is not ideal for high performance (too thick), Thin is best.....Rattle can always pants, but anodised or High temp cerakote etc..much better
I've opted for bare metal + a Splash of thin high temp on the top...

R

 

[Eldavo]

I’m sure it’ll be fine, it’s not a race car and the cam box doesn’t usually get too hot to touch anyway.


Looks like a shiny new catcam might be on its way too.

 

[944Turbo]

Looking good, not heard of catcam before - googled it found several thousand pictures of cats with a camera (collar mounted) and one or two references to performance camshafts - Assume you are going for the latter, not a moggy accessory to film the build progress
Tony

 

[Eldavo]

I can neither confirm nor deny that Tony. I do have a harness for my dog with a GoPro attachment for it so we’ll just have to wait and see.


Been speaking to Ken at Newman Cams about making me something custom and it may even turn out cheaper than the feline equivalent. Will update when I’ve spoken to him again later.

 

[924Srr27l]

I can neither confirm nor deny that Tony. I do have a harness for my dog with a GoPro attachment for it so we’ll just have to wait and see.
Been speaking to Ken at Newman Cams about making me something custom and it may even turn out cheaper than the feline equivalent. Will update when I’ve spoken to him again later.

There would be Import Tax and carriage to pay of curse, but the WEB Camshaft (From California USA) has tuned in well with my Na, it says it also suits turbo application
It's not a crazy duration and hence would work very well for road use, saying that it's also good on track for us..

Valve Lift .480/.480
Duration 254°/254°
@ 0.050 234°/234°

Web Cam Inc. (webcamshafts.com)

R

 

[Eldavo]

Thanks Roger, I had looked at a few options "over the pond” too. As you know, cam choice is quite usage dependant so a high revving NA will need something different to a turbocharged engine. I want to keep the powerband in line with my turbo’s efficiency bandwidth too so anything too wild and rev-happy isn’t correct.


Here’s the data sheet for the car and 944 Turbo Sport profile:
http://www.catcams.com/products/camshafts/datasheet.aspx?ENGINE_id=255&CAMSETUP_id=1045&Language=english

I‘m most likely having Newman Cams make me something along those lines without going as far as the Race profile they’ve done for a couple of friends. Catcams one comes in about £385 delivered, Newman should be less than that and made in the U.K. too so no duty and import issues.

 

[924Srr27l]

Thanks Roger, I had looked at a few options "over the pond” too. As you know, cam choice is quite usage dependant so a high revving NA will need something different to a turbocharged engine. I want to keep the powerband in line with my turbo’s efficiency bandwidth too so anything too wild and rev-happy isn’t correct.


Here’s the data sheet for the car and 944 Turbo Sport profile:
http://www.catcams.com/products/camshafts/datasheet.aspx?ENGINE_id=255&CAMSETUP_id=1045&Language=english

I‘m most likely having Newman Cams make me something along those lines without going as far as the Race profile they’ve done for a couple of friends. Catcams one comes in about £385 delivered, Newman should be less than that and made in the U.K. too so no duty and import issues.

Yes the Web Cam delivered will be more money 4 sure, but I don't class my engine as high revving....
It's 8V head flows more than a turbo (After Lindsey's Stage 2 work) but in Racing format we're changing gear @ 6000rpm.
This was my whole case study to have a low & torquey road car than would (as it did) pull in 3rd gear from 1500rpm nicely....
Hence the smaller than stock bore exhaust tubing 48mm = faster flow (Less volume) which is no good for your forced induction lump but I bet there's still
the same theory in there that if you keep the system restriction free (1 rear straight through silencer only) you should keep the bore as small as possible 60mm? max
otherwise if you go 2.75-3" OD tubing it'll be lumpy low down rpm..

I have seen "other" companies efforts and they seem to feel the need to rev to 7000rpm!
We race against a lot of rice burners with16V engines, and on the track we often beat them with not having to use so many gears and with more torque compared to
say an MX5 2.0 twincam the car is very competitive. We 're also up against 6 cylinder Beemers 330i / 328i etc..but they are heavier and don;t brake / slow down as well !

 

[Eldavo]

As you correctly state, a lot of your theory is no good for my "forced induction lump” so perhaps you could just put a link to your build thread in your signature for those that wish to read more about your engine?

A 3” exhaust isn't lumpy at low rpm, in fact a restrictive exhaust is the opposite of what you want when trying to maximise the pressure differential across the turbo. I’m not getting into this with you again, if you want to argue the finer points of your specific engine and how you feel it applies to everyone else’s engine, then please have the decency to do it on your own thread.

 

[924Srr27l]

As you correctly state, a lot of your theory is no good for my "forced induction lump” so perhaps you could just put a link to your build thread in your signature for those that wish to read more about your engine?
A 3” exhaust isn't lumpy at low rpm, in fact a restrictive exhaust is the opposite of what you want when trying to maximise the pressure differential across the turbo. I’m not getting into this with you again, if you want to argue the finer points of your specific engine and how you feel it applies to everyone else’s engine, then please have the decency to do it on your own thread.

People on this and every other forum I've seen and contributed to express there opinions and discussion (Ideally amicable) which makes up the thread conversations, any of my content is aimed to assist and help but it's a difficult with you as your attitude struggles to see this but I've no doubt you'll find out soon when the engine runs.

There is a lot of other members also quoting there opinions on your thread and also referring to their engines state of tune etc...

My LR stage2 ported 2.5 head (28% increase from 180 to 232CFM) would go very well in your and any turbo application

The N/A head isn't cast around ceramic exhaust port liners like the turbo so the exhaust ports can be opened up, which means that you cannot obtain significant flow increases for a quicker Spool.
The N/A head once (ported) can make substantially more power than you could ever get out of a ceramic port 951 head, which is why a lot of engine builders use N/A heads.

A forced induction engine has to run a lower compression than an N/A to compensate for the amount of mixture that will being crammed in at some point and this is the downside
that your exhaust bore has to be big enough to get rid of the largest amount of (extra volume of gases) that need to evacuate from the forced mixture so when you're at low rpm and also pumping
out a lower amount of forced induction your pipe bore velocity is slow and hence the engine's response and efficiency poor. Variable intakes and vane turbo's help this.

I'm sure you'll get there, is 2021 the year it will run ? I will almost guarantee this time next year you'll still be faffing with something to do with the Engine though []

R

 

[PSH]

Roger, turbo engines can be set to be both reliable and very powerful, my own being a very good example, you don't hear me having to faff around. Don't get me wrong, she needs some cosmetic work and should ideally have her torque tube bearings replaced, after all, they are over 34 years old now and for two-thirds of those years, the car has been developing more power. Nothing engine wise though, that either purrs or roars depending on my mood, I just get in and drive...
I'm sure that David's will be just as good.

Pete

 

[Eldavo]

Roger, your "contributions" don’t seek to help anyone, they’re just a thinly veiled excuse for you to humblebrag about your own engine and work.


Everyone else who has contributed is more than welcome to add their thoughts and experience as it is applicable and helpful. They also tend to read the thread and post appropriate comment.


Your last post sums it up for me, twittering on about your NA head, how brilliant it is and how great it would be for my engine. . . Had you bothered to read the thread you’d have read I’m using an NA head, that’s been ported, fitted with bigger inlet valves, uprated new valve springs, etc.

I’ll agree with your point on low rpm, off boost performance though. But that’s a characteristic of an older turbo car that you drive around. Apart from setting off from a standstill, I don’t think I ever have my engine running below 2/2.5k rpm so boost is always on tap and always plentiful.

My engine is going back in the car on Monday, IIRC yours took 3 years to build.

 

[924Srr27l]

Roger, turbo engines can be set to be both reliable and very powerful, my own being a very good example, you don't hear me having to faff around. Don't get me wrong, she needs some cosmetic work and should ideally have her torque tube bearings replaced, after all, they are over 34 years old now and for two-thirds of those years, the car has been developing more power. Nothing engine wise though, that either purrs or roars depending on my mood, I just get in and drive...
I'm sure that David's will be just as good.

Pete

Hi, I thought your engine needs a Remap? unless I'm thinking of somebody else..

R

 

[924Srr27l]

Your last post sums it up for me, twittering on about your NA head, how brilliant it is and how great it would be for my engine. . . Had you bothered to read the thread you’d have read I’m using an NA head, that’s been ported, fitted with bigger inlet valves, uprated new valve springs, etc.


My engine is going back in the car on Monday, IIRC yours took 3 years to build.

The car in standard form was used weekly for 2 years 2012-13, whilst having 150kg removed from it.
Then it sat at a Race shop for a year (2014) who were not able to get on to it! so it then went to another Specialist to have the engine / box / torque tube / fuel tank / Suspension all removed early 2015


Late 2015 the Lindsey Racing engine was delivered, built, installed and up and running in 6 months! Complete car ready to Roll in May 2016

Apart from a conversion to get the car Race ready in 2018 (Cage / Extinguisher etc..) the engine has never been touched since......

R

 

[Eldavo]

Is this why they keep closing the Welsh pubs - To stop you going in and trying to pick a fight with all the regulars?

Isn‘t this exactly what happened on the 924OC, the forum started dying a death because of you spamming every thread with your "knowledge” until they refunded your membership fee and banned you?

So your car was off the road from 2013-2016, 3 years then.


I’ve had this Turbo for about 8-9 years, took it off the road 2 years ago for a full bodywork restoration and then had the engine rebuild after that. Think it’s only run standard boost for the first 6 months of my ownership.

This is a thread for my 944 Turbo engine build, you don’t have a 944, nor a Turbo. I’ll post some more pics and updates on Monday. Engine is off the stand, clutch, updated flywheel, bellhousing all on and as much of the front end as possible. Dropping the subframe on Monday, fitting the refurbed rack and engine and then sticking it back in the hole.

 

[924Srr27l]

Is this why they keep closing the Welsh pubs - To stop you going in and trying to pick a fight with all the regulars?
Isn‘t this exactly what happened on the 924OC, the forum started dying a death because of you spamming every thread with your "knowledge” until they refunded your membership fee and banned you?
So your car was off the road from 2013-2016, 3 years then.

Dunno ? don't do Pubs.....

24oc forum is as many full of wannabes like the look but won't and don't understand the technicalities...

NO the car was complete and always a runner from purchase in Nov 2012 to March 2015 The car was only off the road (EG a Non runner) for 1 year 2 months from March 2015 to May 2016 (Read the thread properly! rather than concentrating on being abusive)


R

 

[PSH]

Hi, I thought your engine needs a Remap? unless I'm thinking of somebody else..

R

Roger, It doesn't need a remap, I would like to get it remapped to see how much more power it has and to fine-tune if needed. My car is running on the map done by Wayne back in 2007, the car has had an awful lot more work done to it since then but it's a balanced package, I do know what I'm doing when selecting components. John at Vitesse is excellent at writing a chip to match any given car set-up, probably the best out there. His chipset, which is designed for the current set-up, is running the car and was a pure 'plug and play' scenario. At some point, I may get Wayne to see what he can add using the excellent 'piggyback' system from Vitesse, but note.... the car does not need this to run better, it's running extremely well from idle to WOT.

 

[924Srr27l]

Hi, I thought your engine needs a Remap? unless I'm thinking of somebody else..
R

Roger, It doesn't need a remap, I would like to get it remapped to see how much more power it has and to fine-tune if needed. My car is running on the map done by Wayne back in 2007, the car has had an awful lot more work done to it since then but it's a balanced package, I do know what I'm doing when selecting components. John at Vitesse is excellent at writing a chip to match any given car set-up, probably the best out there. His chipset, which is designed for the current set-up, is running the car and was a pure 'plug and play' scenario. At some point, I may get Wayne to see what he can add using the excellent 'piggyback' system from Vitesse, but note.... the car does not need this to run better, it's running extremely well from idle to WOT.

That's what I thought (You've mentioned several times it could benefit from a dyno run) hence a Live map on a specific engine is always the best for maximum extraction.
But then I read recently your thinking of Selling up ?

R

 

[PSH]

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the car or how the car runs...