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944 vs 968 - Comparison

M

MarinerChris

New member
Well that was an unexpected couple of hours!

I joined up here because I am looking for a 993 and a 968 having just relocated back to the UK and decided to buy two cool cars rather than one new BMW. I left some messages in the 968 and 993 sections then went for a browse around the other forum areas and came across this one which seems rather active to say the least.

Anyway. The 968 Vs the 944, what are the differences (apart from cosmetics)

Should I maybe be thinking about a 944 S2 or even a 944 Turbo?

 
Hi Chris

Welcome to the err hectic, i mean active side of the Porsche forum ..:)

I think you'll find most of the answers you need from previous threads here but perhaps if you could give the members a little more info in what you want/expect from a car we could help more.

Regards

Pete
 
Welcome Chris and that's a nice pair of cars to be shopping for (I don't have 993 envy at all![:D])

I can't comment on 968 but early square dash 944 I have is like a proper classic car and handles like a go kart, S2 I had before, like driving a modern car. Silky smooth and great road holding but maybe a little dull (only in the sense that it's very quick but so smooth you don't notice it so much) and finally turbo, which I'm currently selling my square dash to buy one - when the boost kicks in [8D]

...also 2.7/16v but I've not driven these.

Good luck with your search and enjoy the banter here

Cheers
Andy
 
Thanks Pete,

I will be using the car for traveling once a month to Germany and back (at least until I get bored or lazy and start to use a plane for those trips)

Apart from that, seeing as the journey I will be taking me into the country (wrong part but near enough) of the Nurburgring, I would probably use the opportunity to have a little fun (or scare myself)

While in the UK the car will be used for the usual going from a to b in town, an occasional track day, maybe even driving it to the other end of the country whenever some family event happens.

The journeys will be split with a 993 I plan on getting as well, so the 968/944 would only cover half the mileage I am talking about.

I have already spent a couple of hours going through other threads and can see myself spending many more hours, but the real interest was after seeing the thread about the 968 M030 brakes and the boot depth, so I was wondering what else is different on a mechanical level? is it really down to cosmetic changes?




 
Thanks Andy!

My mind has just expanded again, I had no idea there were so many variations.

I started the evening knowing the 944 existed, and wanting a 968. Now I hear there are 2.5, 2.7, 3.0 ones, 16 valve ones, turbo's and early square dashboard ones...

I can feel a number 3 car coming on, one as just a dedicated gokart.

I'm buying a 993 I fell in love with them when they first came out and promised myself that one day, one would be mine! This is not to say I will or will not fall out of love with it, who knows.

The 968 was just because they were in the same main dealer showroom when I used to press my nose up against the glass at AFN Reading when I was younger and lusting after the 993's.. But this area has me thinking about 944's now.

Lucky I ditched the wife and have no one to answer to anymore! :)
 
Haha... You chose a good thread with the boot depth...:)
Ok well both cars are good for the continent , the 944/968 would be the most comfortable as they are true GT's with the 944 turbo covering the distance quicker if on the Autobahm. I've driven mine to Le Mans a number of times with no fuss at all. In fact on one occasion I had a good friend of mine following in his 993 ( btw he previously owned two 944 turbos and regrets selling them) I in term was following another 944turbo with Paul( diver944)driving. We weren't hanging around ( my speedo topped out a couple of times and my friend in the 933 struggled to keep up as he later informed me, mind you back then my car was only mildly modified, when the latest round of mods are completed very little will keep pace.
Anyway regards using as a track car or tackling the "Ring" take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GvljS2tEDI&feature=related and then check the lap records for that circuit and then bear in mind that this is perhaps a standard Silver Rose although I suspect it may be on slicks.

For me there's only one choice , I think you can guess which but then I admit to being just a little bias....:)

Kind regards

Pete
 
If you think of the 968 as a 944S3 then that should give you the picture that the 968 is the ultimate development of the 944 in terms of chassis, with some tweaks and changes to improve over the 944S2/Turbo

I use my 944 Turbo as an everyday car and I cover some miles in it, Jan & Feb were both over 2,500 miles each.

As mine is such high mileage (230k+) I am looking at moving it on and am test driving a 968 at the weekend, so it will be interesting to compare the difference.

From what I am told the 968 will feel a bit more solid and planted, but I will miss the boooost and the relaxed day-day driving that the low-down grunt gives ( Once over 50 on the motorway it goes in 5th and stays there, there is not much modern stuff about that I need to change down for...)
 
Depends on what you want, what you like the look of and how much you want to spend. The 968 is going to look pretty similar to your 993 from the front at least. IMO the 944 is better value than the 968, the former also having more aggressive 1980's looks and the 968 more subtle later (993) lines, both cars have sets of followers that love their individual attributes.

I first fell in love with the 944 when I was about 15 and saw them in showrooms as you did the 968, initial emotional experiences with these cars can manifest into some strong feelings towards one type of car over another and can influence buying decisions at least in the first instance.

The 944 turbo is a popular choice for many, capable of some serious bhp figures and quick even by todays standards, although you may need deep pockets to get the most out of them and can provide more mechanical issues than other models.

The 968 and the S2 are for all intents and purposes the same car to drive with near equal performance, looks and age/mileage may be your deciding factor here, although both are capable of 200,000+ if well looked after. Perhaps more suitable as all round cars that could be used as daily drivers as well as long haul GT cars with fun in the twisty bits.

The early cars offer great nimble handling and simple reliable mechanics at bargain prices, the 2.7 arguably being the pick of the bunch.

Personally I'm very happy with my S2, yes a turbo would be quicker but instead of forever chasing more ponies I find myself investing in a long term restoration project and getting the car into a sweet handling drivers machine, being lighter than a 968CS its not exactly a slouch either.



Edd



 
OMG! That guy on the ring with the 944T has talent!

If you watch his earlier videos on youtube you can see how much rougher he was in the same car in 2009, practice makes perfect!

What is the video and timing gear he has?

It seems to be genlocking data over the top of the video, how cool is that!

Am actually very interested in a 944T as an alternative for a 968 now, keeping an open mind though.

Prices seem so varied though, how much should I spend on a 968, 944 S2 or a 944 Turbo to get a really excellent example.

Also need to research the difference between different turbo models, only just found out there seems to be a 220, a TurboS a TurboSE and Turbo Cup versions, as well as this Silver Rose thing.. I will get it eventually!
 
Hi and welcome to our corner!
Quick history.
'81 - '85 square dash all 2.5 8v often no PAS but sharper handling due to geo of front suspension and steering
'85 oval dash and LOTS of changes stiill 2.5 8v .Turbo 220 bhp but stilll old suspension steering geo.
'86 New suspension / steering geo 2.5 16v S added
89 2.7 8v replaced 2.5 8v, 3.0 16 v S2 replaced S , turbo SE 250bhp Silver Rose added as "special"
90 220 turbo and 2.7 and S dropped. Cabriolet introduced
92 968 (or 944 S3) with variocam .
There are a few other rare types but that's the basics
Square dash are fun but would be 3rd car given us
Best options for your use? Id say 220. Turbo with a little updating , reduce lag keep boost better and can be tuned to 300 ish safety, or 968 , but I was say its too close to 993.Both very capable fast sports tourers but both from the same wra .
Just my thoughts, good luck with your hunt.
 
Given that you intend to use the car for serious long distance travel, there may be some other considerations. If you require ABS, than you will need a late model car, one of the ones with the revised suspension that came in around '86. If you require air con then it will probably have to be a turbo as very few normally aspirated cars were fitted with it.

As for what to pay, it is always cheaper to buy the best car on the 944 market than to buy a less good one and do it up. As with the 964 and 993, galvanising delays corrosion rather than making it impossible so a lot of cars have lurking rust. There are also a lot of cars out there which look tidy but are very tired, with 20-25 year old suspension and knackered brake calipers and so on.

So really all you need to find is a car with no corrosion and which has had substantial mechanical refurbishment in the last few years. This is eminently possible, but you may need to look at a lot of cars to get a sense of what the range looks like. Coming along to a gathering of many cars is a really good idea so that you can see, say, 20 cars in one day just to calibrate what you are looking at before you go out shopping.
 
I own a relatively standard S2 (it just has a MAF) and a much-modified turbo.

I would opine that a standard turbo will be a pain to drive compared with a 944 S2 or a 968 at any speed below 60 mph because the gearing is waaaaaay too long with regards to power delivery.
In order to correct this major flaw one would need to at least fit the usual chipset kit (with 3.0 bar fuel pressure regulator, etc etc) which will greatly improve performance but also drivability at slow and moderate speeds, and for very reasonable costs considering how much better the car will drive afterwards.

Regardless, I will always favour a S2 (or 968) over a turbo for long trips, reason being that it's more than fast enough to cover long distances at more or less legal speeds, and the 3.0 16V engine is just easier to live with in towns.

Even on the Autobahn a good S2 should hold a candle to a standard-ish turbo (only chipped) in terms of pace. Over 120mph the difference of pace won't be dramatic.

In fact the only place you may regret not having the extra thrust of the turbo, considering the use you have planned of the car, should be the track, which apparently may represent a small percentage of your planned driving time.

As for the differences between a 944 S2 and a 968, apart from how the front section of the bodyshell ahead of the windshield is welded together I can see no difference that would suggest they should handle any differently since the suspension parts are completely identical and 100% swappable.

To the average passer-by the 968 may look more "modern", whatever it means, than a 944, but to me that also means that it won't age as well. The full red rear lights look ridiculous and when rubber seals between the body and the front/rear bumper and sidekirts go bad, the car looks in my opinion worse than a rough 944. I also loathe the airbag steering wheel in the 968, the analog clock, and the feel of the 6 speed shifter. Feature I like best is the pop-up headlights that remind me of the Lamborghini Miura's, but even then the 944's headlights have I think more personality when you are sitting driving.
 
We will have to agree to disagree TTM as one of the things I worry about going from my Turbo to a 968 is that I will find it less relaxing to drive!

As I said earlier, once above 50 I just stick mine in 5th and very rarely have to change down once underway as I just ride the ever-increasing torque curve, whereas I am told that I will be constantly flicking between 5th and 6th on the motorway in the 968. (of course slip roads, 3rd gear and full boost are just a hoot!)

Around town the Turbo is a pussy cat, as if you stay below the boost level it is just a low-compression 2.5

Mine is a 220 with Promax Boost enhancer
 
And I gather there is quite a difference between standard 220 bhp and 250 bhp Turbos in terms of lag / drivability at lower speeds.

Certainly my 220bhp Turbo with Boost enhancer was perfectly drivable but if I were planning on lots of European trips I'd go for the newest, best condition car I could find and that would mean a 968.
 
I've had a 924S with the 2.5 8V a 220 turbo and a 968 tiptronic, for relaxed driving on Motorways etc the 968 Tippy was an easy drive even in manual mode but the 6 speed 968 has a very nice gearbox with well spaced ratios. The 220 turbo could end up being caught flat footed if speeds crept down to say 50 in top gear as it would then be necessary to drop a couple of gears blipping throttle to get the boost up. But each time I drove any turbo it was a thing to put a grin on my face.

924S is of course a 944 without flared arches and was fun at the time even with 150bhp but anything less than 220bhp I wouldn't go for with the weight of any of the 924, 944 or 968 range of cars.

993 is a nice car and in my view the best looking of the 911's, it still holds a good price as the last of the air cooled.
 
I've had 968 sport's, 944 turbo S's, 944 S2's (and older 2.5 ventillier and 8v models).

The 968 just feels a bit fresher inside and has the 6th gear and a little bit more go than an S2.

But after a owning a good turbo S then a 968 I found the 968 was a let down in performance and the handling was not as good as the turbo, lack of an lsd being a key thing for me that lets them down.

The only ones I've had with aircon were turbo's have never seen it in a n/a car and it's a really nice thing to have in a 944/968 as it can get hot inside in summer

The key thing is buy one that has been really well maintained in its recent life look for one thats already had the expensive stuff done and it should be a good prospect to keep without big bills.

I've got an immaculate Blue S2 for sale at the moment that has got a terrific history the previous owner having kept on top of all the jobs that come up on these cars (clutch, cambelt, fuel and brake lines, camshaft, PAS, etc) now they are 20 plus years old.

 

ORIGINAL: surrey 944T


The only ones I've had with aircon were turbo's have never seen it in a n/a car and it's a really nice thing to have in a 944/968 as it can get hot inside in summer
Click to expand...

My S2 has aircon and I know Mike's 2.7 944 also has it; so not impossible to find it on an N/A 944.
 
For long European Trips I would opt for the best 968 available (but I can't get on with forced induction cars) - The standard spec 968's (not sport or clubsport) seem less sort-after and are IMHO more likely to have lead a quiet life, away from circuits and tuning.

In terms of differences, I would argue that the 968 is an improvement on the 944 (S2 in particular) in the following areas:

NVH
- 968's were built at the Porsche factory in Zuffhausen as apposed to the 924 and 944 which were assembled under contract by Audi at their plant in Neckasulm. Moving to Zuffhausen lead to improvements in build quality, paint finish and corrosion protection.
- If you look at one in bits, they have significantly revised the design and materials used for sound deadening and added a load more sealer and glue - at the expense of a good few kilos of course, but it depends where your priorities lie.
- The drivetrain has been improved, although some increases in complexity have been introduced. The dual mass flywheel and 6-speed box diff bearings can give issues - but a well looked after car should be in good health.

Engine
- The 968 uses the next generation of Motronic combined with variable valve timing and more sophisticated tuning of the inlet manifold - giving welcome improvements in emissions, power and efficiency. The hydraulic timing belt tensioner is also a significant step forward in terms of reliability and servicing, as the system places much less load on the cambelt, water pump and front end bearings.

Residuals
- Although the 944's are significantly cheaper to buy, I personally think the long-term prospects for good 968's are better.

Styling
- Sorry to say that I prefer it to the 944, particularly at the rear, and it ought to save you some fuel on a round trip to Germany.

Boot space
- just ask Jeremy [;)]
 
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