9912S or 997TTgen 2 ?

Dylan1 · Oct 11, 2014

I would appreciate any thoughts on the conundrum I am currently having.
I am soon hoping to purchase one of the above-as the dorset house build enters its final stage at last.....

question is should I go for the newer 18 month old 991S I tried yesterday or for the same sort of money i could buy a very nice late gen2 997TT pdk (which I haven yet tried-though I did ttry a gen 1 a few yrs ago).
I will be using it on the regular poole-harpenden commute twice a week and also hopefully one-two foreign trips to the alps per year.Ive done a few track days but dont anticipate too many in the near future.
grateful for thoughts as I plan to keep this one for 3-4years.

pwebb · Oct 11, 2014

Glad your house build is getting there, a familiar feeling [

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There are a couple of well qualified people on the Forum who can give you real life experiences of the two cars, with ownership rather than just a quick test drive. Apart from your preference of NA or Turbo, the 991 is quite a different car from the 997 and for many the different character of the two iterations means a lot. I feel the 991 is a step change up a level from my previous 997 C2S, but that was a great car as well. So I'm not being much help other than to say enjoy testing some cars out, which is half the fun!

BTW the 991 will be significantly cheaper to run in terms of servicing, consumables, fuel and road fund, particularly if you are doing commuting to drive the mileage up. However the TT will get your neighbours even more jealous.

waxman · Oct 11, 2014

Dylan
You' ve clearly had a number of Porsches so know what you like and this is a good dilemma to have - I always find that when I've driven alternatives my gut feel tells me which one to go for - I think the two will be quite different feel interior and power delivery so would have thought a good drive would sort this out .
If the need to Second guess future depreciation is a major factor then that may alter the decision but I would not have thought not significant enough between these two options to select the car that was second choice for driving enjoyment
Me I'd go for the TT now and possibly look in a couple of years for a gen 2 991 or 991 GTS to scrub off initial values
Good luck

Dylan1 · Oct 11, 2014

thank chaps for some helpful stuff here.fortunately i have a pec silverstone day coming up 20th oct with a 991S so i am hoping that will help-it certainly felt good on the short run i had in the rain on thursday,but be good to have a bit of instrcution and go week on monday
i had a 997S experience day a few yrs back and that was good but whether the extra grunt of the TT would outweigh the upgarded general features of 991 i dont know .I guess i am also slightly wary of the warp factor TT speeds and mr plod(or more especially his french equivalent!!).

garyw · Oct 11, 2014

ORIGINAL: dyllan
whether the extra grunt of the TT would outweigh the upgarded general features of 991 i dont know .I guess i am also slightly wary of the warp factor TT speeds and mr plod(or more especially his french equivalent!!).

Going around the alps in a 911 is a wonderful experience but coming out of a hairpin with the grunt of the Turbo is something to behold!!
Sadly only one of your options ticks that box [

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I think as a daily commute the 991 may well be a nicer place but then again maybe a BMW would be an ever better but cheaper place..
Really is down to what you want from the car and experience, taking a 997.2 and waiting for the 991 to lower would solve both quandaries [

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Dylan1 · Oct 11, 2014

thanks gary
the commute to and from poole would be only once a week each direction,mainly motorway,and indeed linda will probs come up with me for the 3days up here and we would take her BMW then so the 911 only gets that drive once a fortnight-the daily pootle will prob be in a spare vw polo thats knocking around.
having done a few alps trips the turbo grunt out of the hairpins does send the hair tingling!!!sadly a 991 turbo not poss this time with all the build money spent....but maybe in 2-3 yrs...
i think i will try and find a nice 997TT to drive soon -there is one at gp cars locally near my ENT clinic on tueday so i`ll see if I can give that a shot
cheers

salisbees · Oct 11, 2014

ORIGINAL: dyllan
....sadly a 991 turbo not poss this time with all the build money spent....but maybe in 2-3 yrs...
i think i will try and find a nice 997TT to drive soon -there is one at gp cars locally near my ENT clinic on tueday so i`ll see if I can give that a shot
cheers

I think you have answered your own question but would add that if you find a 991 with sports chrono you would not be disappointed and it would make a better companion over the longer distances.

Dylan1 · Oct 11, 2014

well i was thinking 400 hp should be enough with sports chrono-i`m really not that good a driver i need more really!![

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lowndes · Oct 11, 2014

Somewhere at the back of my mind I thought I had written about 991 C2S. And here it is:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=800869

Also buried deep in the depths of the 997 forum there may be some views I had on 997 turbo in various guises. A thread around a pick up on 1 March 2010 rings a bell, Alan may be able to pin point.

Irrespective of the power plant, I think the 991 cabin is a nicer place to be. Certainly NVH is improved over 997 and PCM and other useful gadgets are more modern and have more functions. Would you go manual or PDK in 991? For a commute of the type you describe PDK would be the only choice for me.

Out on the open road I think the major difference comes when overtaking, where the thrust of the turbo will present opportunities to get you past traffic that would be denied the N/A motor. FWD of the turbo is also reassuring when presented with slick, leaf covered, off camber, downhill bends in the dark and wet of a November evening.

And at the other end of the motoring spectrum either car will put a smile on your face in the Alps. That much I'm sure of.

What would I do?

I'd take the 991.

Dylan1 · Oct 11, 2014

thanks for that Nick
i must say I am looking forward to having a real go at Silverstone but my short ride on thursday confiremd what a nice place to be the cabin is

tscaptain · Oct 11, 2014

As you know I own one of the two and have driven the other. The 991 cabin is a nicer place to be and I really like PDCC, unlike some, ansd the exhaust sounds better. However, that's it for me. Flooring the loud pedal on the 991 I kept waiting for something "extra" to happen but it didn't! The turbo torque is most addictive and I'm not going into rehab anytime soon[

] Get the turbo - one of the best mile eaters on the planet.

lowndes · Oct 11, 2014

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Flooring the loud pedal on the 991 I kept waiting for something "extra" to happen but it didn't! The turbo torque is most addictive and I'm not going into rehab anytime soon[] Get the turbo - one of the best mile eaters on the planet.

Alan, if you step out of a Gen 2 turbo straight into a 991 2S I agree you will certainly notice the difference and the "extra" won't happen 'cos it's not there in the first place; and point and squirt motoring will be less of an event. But I really do think the 991 compensates by providing a compelling all-round package for those other times when you're not simply nailing it.

If they ever bore out the 3.8 to 4.0 and put it in a Gen II GTS that could be a very tempting package. [

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okellyt · Oct 11, 2014

991 GTS

430hp more power and lighter than a 996 Turbo

Would be plenty fun....

flat6 · Oct 11, 2014

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

As you know I own one of the two and have driven the other. The 991 cabin is a nicer place to be and I really like PDCC, unlike some, ansd the exhaust sounds better. However, that's it for me. Flooring the loud pedal on the 991 I kept waiting for something "extra" to happen but it didn't! The turbo torque is most addictive and I'm not going into rehab anytime soon[] Get the turbo - one of the best mile eaters on the planet.

I agree that in real world general driving the difference will be night and day. Yes the NA motor can zip along with a premeditated blast where the revs are kept high, but the turbo is as ballistic without any pre-planning, and faster still if you're going for it. I test drove a 991 C4S and was very underwhelmed. OK I couldn't really go for it given the nature of the test drive, which was an event where we were being rushed through with short sessions, but I insisted it must be a C4 given the lethargy (and some misleading interior badging) but when we got back to base it was proven it was an S. This was in comparison to my Spyder and I had never driven a turbo at that time. I have driven an S before that had felt quicker, but I had been 'encouraged' to drive it and used the revs more. I have also driven a 997 GTS in a ballistic fashion and that was awesome. But my gen 1 turbo is rapid without having to put it in a sweet spot at the top of the revs, so in general driving, it's rapid without the pre-cursor of intent, and if you make a split second decision to 'go' and press the loud pedal, it's gone without the need to 'help' it by raising the revs. Raise the revs as well and the experience is not worth comparing to NA. A gen 2 997 turbo with PDK can only amplify my thoughts.

Dyllan,

Your described intended use of the car won't split them. Either car is more than adequate. I think it will ultimately come down to how you enjoy them when you try them as the 991 does provide a different experience. If your usage description leaned more towards outright performance then that's a different discussion.

Dylan1 · Oct 12, 2014

Really helpful guys ,lots of food for thought from your combined experience.
If I could get a good deal ,a GTS as Tom suggests may be ideal ,but I don't think I can stretch at this time due to a few remaining unknowns at the new house.but it does make sense.
I will try and really probe the S next Monday to see if it will deliver the fun element for me and meanwhile try and test a TT 997 on Tuesday
Thanks for all the input
Cheers
Dylan

oliver · Oct 12, 2014

I had a 997 Turbo S for three years. Formidable machine, with enormous capabilities, but despite my best efforts, rather soulless, imo.

Driven several 991s (but not the new Turbo) and always been very impressed - more comfort, refinement and improved cabin (if you are looking for a GT), but also a superb chassis that seems better suited to real world roads and driving conditions. My preference would be the C4S ,or maybe a GT4S if I was buying new, but I think a really nice well spec'd C2S would be my choice over a similarly price 997T.

Edited to add that you need to depress the 'sport' or 'sport plus' button for the full effect.

Lancerlot · Oct 12, 2014

Demerits of the new model for me are:-

1.) Electric steering.
2.) Default stop/start mode.
3.) Coasting strategy.
4.) Electronic handbrake.
5.) Lack of cabin space/storage around the driver.

Regards,

Clive.

rob.kellock · Oct 12, 2014

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot

Demerits of the new model for me are:-

1.) Electric steering.
2.) Default stop/start mode.
3.) Coasting strategy.
4.) Electronic handbrake.
5.) Lack of cabin space/storage around the driver.

Regards,

Clive.

Dylan, you know I've already fallen for the 991S PDK! Visited my Dad in North Wales yesterday and it seemed rude not to detour via the Evo triangle... Now on day 11. So far as the above is concerned I would say:

1) the steering is still excellent.
2) hit the sport button when you start it up, throttle response is far more amenable and it is always in the right gear rather than one or two above in default fuel saving mode.
3) as 2) - doesn't happen in sports mode but learn to use it and love the fuel saving, it can be remarkable on my Cayman
4) haven't used it once
5) agreed but the door bins are useful.

I am surprised others haven't commented on ride quality - the 991 is amazing in this regard. My pal has a 997.2 Carrera and he was blown away by the 991's cabin and ride.

I genuinely can't conceive of a situation on a public road where you could safely overtake in a turbo but not safely overtake in an S, it is a seriously quick car.

997.2 turbo has ultimate power, ultimate traction, possibly sweeter steering, looks are subjective so only you know what you prefer, manual handbrake, more storage space, smaller boot though and, if it bothers you, it's last year's model.

Nice dilemma to have! Now, what about that Spyder you were after...

Dylan1 · Oct 12, 2014

Linda has now ruled out soft tops as my hearing is already bad enough(she says!)
Also given the new requirements I don't think the Spyder would be as suitable .
Would still love to own one one day but like yourself,with longish commutes it doesn't make sense.
For a weekend fun car ,if prices don't get silly then yes I haven't given up on it completely!!
But if you find the 991 fun having had a Spyder for a fair while ,then that is very helpful
Thanks Rob

lowndes · Oct 12, 2014

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot

Demerits of the new model for me are:-

1.) Electric steering.
2.) Default stop/start mode.
3.) Coasting strategy.
4.) Electronic handbrake.
5.) Lack of cabin space/storage around the driver.

Regards,

Clive.

Hi Clive

Just picking up your points in order: (not sure how to do numbered lists on here and Word doesn't appear compatible)

Without necessarily understanding how it actually works, it seems to me that an electromechanical steering must inevitably be digital and to that extent less "true" in its feedback than an unassisted or hydraulic assisted system. And from what one reads, the digital calibration of say the GT3 is better than the early C2.

We've had electomechanical on three different Porsche now and I have to say it is not something that immediately springs to mind when driving.

Ironically the steering that seems vaguest is on the 3.2 Carrera. That may seem like heresy but is probably more of a reflection of how far things have moved in 25 years.

Start/stop default on in normal mode only. Automatically off in Sport and can be switched off in normal and stays off until engine turned off on the key.

Coasting ( I think Porsche call it gliding) is a bit marmite. Again it is automatically off in Sport and in Cruise when in normal. In as much as mundane Motorway motoring needs something to retain interest, there is no doubt the absence of engine braking heightens the need to anticipate what is happening in front. Not necessarily a bad thing perhaps.

Handbrake. Completely agree. A truly hateful thing. Made worse by operating in the wrong sense in that you have to push to put it on. Furthermore at times it even puts itself on automatically An abomination and appalling in every way.

On cabin space the only thing that comes to mind is the loss of the wallet space in front of the gear lever. I have always thought that a space for wallet/passport etc on the underside of the dashboard area near your right knee would be handy. There was a car that had it but for now I can't remember what it was.

No doubt we can return to this at the week end.

Cheers

Nick