9912S or 997TTgen 2 ?
- Thread starter Dylan1
- Start date
Nick,
Not too sure exactly what you want to find out, but the numbers for your car are 412 kW (560 hp) at rpm 6,500 - 6,750. Maximum torque is produced between 2,100 and 4,250. This is 700 Nm with 1.2 bar boost, rising to 750Nm with overboost in Sport Plus which will increase the boost to 1.35 bar. Maximum boost and torque are achieved with the engine is on full load and throttle wide open.
The torque produced at 0.6 bar boost depends on engine load and RPM.
Compression ratio at 9.8:1 is actually quite high for a turbocharged car. This is usually much lower than in N/A units, since the compression ratio is increased dramatically under full boost in a forced induction engine.
Regards,
Clive.
Ok let's try a bit of pseudo calculation.
If there is a linear relation (doubtful I concede) between pressure and torque then if the max torque at an absolute pressure of 2.35bar ( 1 bar atmos plus 1.35bar on the boost gauge) is 750 Nm, the torque at 1 bar ie N/A would be say 750/2.35 x 1.0 = 319 Nm. And at 0.6bar of boost ie 1.6 bar absolute the engine would be generating around 510Nm of torque.
Interestingly according to the brochure, the 0.15bar overboost is stated give and extra 50Nm which also supports the view that 1 bar is around 320Nm.
Quite what that proves I'm not sure but at least gives us something to mull over in the bar on Friday.
Nick
I think I'll just stand by the bar and listen carefully [
]
On a serious note, I think its a sort of marmite conversation - Some people love the turbo idea and torque others love the sound of a thrashed and screaming German 6 cylinder boxer. Me I like both.
Having driven the 991 TTS on the same back roads drove my 997 TTS, I agree with most of the general comments. I also got to drive the C2S at Goodwood - very impressive car for the "cooking model".
When David mugged me again (he bought the beast) and offered many peso for my 997TTS there were no new 991 TTS slot in the country, I seriously considered the anniversary C2/4 S with the powerkit, just something different, then I saw the Ferrari, GT2 RS etc and had a whole world of options to consider. With 430 horses it has more grunt and less weight than a 996 turbo and decent torque its all the sports car anyone cold need but as we all know what we want is often different from what we need.
Rather like Alex I am addicted to the torque and instant overtake of the TTS. Hence the rather Ironic comment as two guys who probably had stock 911' on their walls as kids (posters), deeply aspirational now its seen as "all you need" but maybe a bit short on torque, how the world changes.
The 997 TT should depreciate les steeply but the new car is such a move on in many ways - it'll come down to: Do you like the charm/quirks and cosy interior of the 997 plus the torque or do you want the larger, quieter and all round better package of the 991 but without the shove from the Turbo. Mind you if your buying a power kit, the stock TT is £118k so you could by a pre registered with low spec for similar money and have the best of both worlds. Its only a little slower than the 997 TTS to 100.....
Or there is that lovely blue second hand 458.................... Decisions, Decisions.....[8|]
Having driven the 991 TTS on the same back roads drove my 997 TTS, I agree with most of the general comments. I also got to drive the C2S at Goodwood - very impressive car for the "cooking model".
When David mugged me again (he bought the beast) and offered many peso for my 997TTS there were no new 991 TTS slot in the country, I seriously considered the anniversary C2/4 S with the powerkit, just something different, then I saw the Ferrari, GT2 RS etc and had a whole world of options to consider. With 430 horses it has more grunt and less weight than a 996 turbo and decent torque its all the sports car anyone cold need but as we all know what we want is often different from what we need.
Rather like Alex I am addicted to the torque and instant overtake of the TTS. Hence the rather Ironic comment as two guys who probably had stock 911' on their walls as kids (posters), deeply aspirational now its seen as "all you need" but maybe a bit short on torque, how the world changes.
The 997 TT should depreciate les steeply but the new car is such a move on in many ways - it'll come down to: Do you like the charm/quirks and cosy interior of the 997 plus the torque or do you want the larger, quieter and all round better package of the 991 but without the shove from the Turbo. Mind you if your buying a power kit, the stock TT is £118k so you could by a pre registered with low spec for similar money and have the best of both worlds. Its only a little slower than the 997 TTS to 100.....
Or there is that lovely blue second hand 458.................... Decisions, Decisions.....[8|]
I agree and "all you need" becomes a cliché, a comforter to a decision you're not entirely convinced about.
It's all relative. My Vauxhall estate is all the car I 'need'. It's 140bhp is fast enough to get me from A to B and it is very comfortable. In comparison my Porsche is just a toy that I 'want'. As a mode of transport I don't need it as there's Vauxhall nowhere it can take me that the Vauxhall can't. I can't really justify it as a mode of transport as I've already got one of those.
So as you say it becomes a Marmite conversation. It's like buying a good jacket. You want it to fit right, feel good in it, look good in it and for it to feel comfortable to wear for the long periods you need to have it on. For different people, their choice to fit their requirements is different but there's little point comparing choices. Their different and no amount of squinting to blur the merits of each one is going to converge them to being similar on merit. They each have different merits. Instead you prioritise the merits of each based on personal preference and discount the merits that are of less importance to you.
I too like the instant overtake ability. Addicted - oh yes[]
It's all relative. My Vauxhall estate is all the car I 'need'. It's 140bhp is fast enough to get me from A to B and it is very comfortable. In comparison my Porsche is just a toy that I 'want'. As a mode of transport I don't need it as there's Vauxhall nowhere it can take me that the Vauxhall can't. I can't really justify it as a mode of transport as I've already got one of those.
So as you say it becomes a Marmite conversation. It's like buying a good jacket. You want it to fit right, feel good in it, look good in it and for it to feel comfortable to wear for the long periods you need to have it on. For different people, their choice to fit their requirements is different but there's little point comparing choices. Their different and no amount of squinting to blur the merits of each one is going to converge them to being similar on merit. They each have different merits. Instead you prioritise the merits of each based on personal preference and discount the merits that are of less importance to you.
I too like the instant overtake ability. Addicted - oh yes[
]
i am very excited about my morning at silverstone with the 991C2S on monday-sadly the 997TT i was planning to try last tuesday had sold within hours-hardly surprising as i think it was underpriced at £62k for 3-4 yrs old low miles.
i will have to keep a lookout for another to compare,but a lightly used pre reg 991TT as Tom suggested does seem like a nice idea[]
i will have to keep a lookout for another to compare,but a lightly used pre reg 991TT as Tom suggested does seem like a nice idea[
]
vitesse
Active member
Cecil, your erudition is magnificent-if you've bought the clothes ,then wear them[]
I would dearly love to be able to afford the latest "fast " toy from Porsche but apart from overtaking ability it would be wasted most of the time
because we can no longer drive cars fast in the UK.
My BMW 530D SE with its sports suspension set electronically at the minimum,remapped to 250 bhp,& DSC button depressed for over 16 secs (you get a further remap &
500 rpm higher changeup speed in the Steptronic box,generally gets me anywhere I go with plenty of driver engagement & because I have trained my left leg for left foot braking,I notice higher cornering speeds than fast cars trailng behind me
.We frequently go to our Daughters near Morpeth ,the route having a good combination of trunk roads,motorway,A roads & B roads & latterly I have added unclassified roads at the Northumbrian end which reduce the miles & have no traffic on them.
Without getting banned or bounced around ,I doubt whether a really fast car would be any quicker A to B.
But the acceleration would come in handy now & again,when faced by a dodderer,tractor ,artic in front.Acceleration in competent hands is the key to much of road safety issues coupled with anticipation.
Hopefully once our financial issues are resolved,we intend to return to mainstay Porsche for general use-meanwhile the 2 x 924S's are fine.[&o]
]I would dearly love to be able to afford the latest "fast " toy from Porsche but apart from overtaking ability it would be wasted most of the time
because we can no longer drive cars fast in the UK.
My BMW 530D SE with its sports suspension set electronically at the minimum,remapped to 250 bhp,& DSC button depressed for over 16 secs (you get a further remap &
500 rpm higher changeup speed in the Steptronic box,generally gets me anywhere I go with plenty of driver engagement & because I have trained my left leg for left foot braking,I notice higher cornering speeds than fast cars trailng behind me
.We frequently go to our Daughters near Morpeth ,the route having a good combination of trunk roads,motorway,A roads & B roads & latterly I have added unclassified roads at the Northumbrian end which reduce the miles & have no traffic on them.
Without getting banned or bounced around ,I doubt whether a really fast car would be any quicker A to B.
But the acceleration would come in handy now & again,when faced by a dodderer,tractor ,artic in front.Acceleration in competent hands is the key to much of road safety issues coupled with anticipation.
Hopefully once our financial issues are resolved,we intend to return to mainstay Porsche for general use-meanwhile the 2 x 924S's are fine.[&o]
Thanks Colin[]
My toy is buy no means the latest. Its 8 years old but that was the limit of my budget for turbos. I used to consider stretching to a 997 GTS for newer tech and PDK but the turbo ticked more boxes and its worked out to be the right choice for me.
The "which one would I prefer to 'wear' " did actually come into it as well. I liked the big nostrils on the side of the turbo, the turbo spoiler and the look of intent of the front air dam on the turbo. The alternative looked a tad naked[:-]
So the cost (997 GTS more expensive), the look I wanted and the torque were there three things that swayed my decision strongly in favour of one over the other. Obviously there's lots of downsides to an older car, but with only 11K miles on the clock I decided to take the risk. Fingers crossed!
]My toy is buy no means the latest. Its 8 years old but that was the limit of my budget for turbos. I used to consider stretching to a 997 GTS for newer tech and PDK but the turbo ticked more boxes and its worked out to be the right choice for me.
The "which one would I prefer to 'wear' " did actually come into it as well. I liked the big nostrils on the side of the turbo, the turbo spoiler and the look of intent of the front air dam on the turbo. The alternative looked a tad naked[:-]
So the cost (997 GTS more expensive), the look I wanted and the torque were there three things that swayed my decision strongly in favour of one over the other. Obviously there's lots of downsides to an older car, but with only 11K miles on the clock I decided to take the risk. Fingers crossed!
Well I had a great morning with Mark on the 991S fully loaded pdcc ceramics sports chrono adaptive seats
The works
Loved it
Going to get one
Will sort out when I get some free time over next few weeks and decide exact spec
As excited as a very excited person
Thanks for all the input- been really helpful - hope to be able to do a few meetings/trips next yr now the house project almost over
Cheers
The works
Loved it
Going to get one
Will sort out when I get some free time over next few weeks and decide exact spec
As excited as a very excited person
Thanks for all the input- been really helpful - hope to be able to do a few meetings/trips next yr now the house project almost over
Cheers
sport seats def.?pdls?pse
prob a silver of some sort or agate grey I think
not yellow or white(lindas veto!)
of course wondering now whether for a few(!) pounds more i should go GTS!!!
and will i take a big hit when gen2 comes in a yrs time if its so much of a step up........i think provide4d i am happy then there will always be a newer/better model around the corner so just bite the bullet and go for it??
prob a silver of some sort or agate grey I think
not yellow or white(lindas veto!)
of course wondering now whether for a few(!) pounds more i should go GTS!!!
and will i take a big hit when gen2 comes in a yrs time if its so much of a step up........i think provide4d i am happy then there will always be a newer/better model around the corner so just bite the bullet and go for it??
Congrats on making the choice Dyllan. Enjoy spec'ing it out[]
Did they let you drive anything else at PEC, by way of comparision. I'd have liked to test back to back with a late 997S or even a 981S. Just gives some more feel-good factor about your choice. Even if not considering those cars at all, just provides a bit of a barometer. I think there isn't a single Porsche that won't give a thrilling experience at PEC as they're all brilliant cars.
]Did they let you drive anything else at PEC, by way of comparision. I'd have liked to test back to back with a late 997S or even a 981S. Just gives some more feel-good factor about your choice. Even if not considering those cars at all, just provides a bit of a barometer. I think there isn't a single Porsche that won't give a thrilling experience at PEC as they're all brilliant cars.
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