9912S or 997TTgen 2 ?

[Dylan1]

Didn't get the opportunity to do more than the 991s but to be honest I was happy to just spend a good session cementing that as my choice
I've had 6 weeks in a 981 when my box was in for engine sort out so I am familiar with that ,indeed till recently the 981gts was going to be the next car ...but then Linda said no more soft tops as I am deaf enough already !!
I have prev spent a pec session with a 997s which was great fun but the 991 has I think moved the game on enough to spend the extra ..
Cheers
Dylan

 

[tscaptain]

So the title of the thread was a bit pointless then as the turbo was never tried?[] Have fun with the configurator - hours of fun []

 

[flat6]

Glad you've tried other cars Dyllan. As you say you've cemented your choice on the back of that.

I didn't want to mention the turbo as i've done enough turbo praise on here, and each to their own and all that - you've made your choice, but as tscaptain mentioned it, DON'T try a turbo now that you have made your choice!!!!! You don't want a supercar vs sportscar dilemma!!!!!

 

[rob.kellock]

I can see how you reached that decision.

My observations on spec, for what they are worth:

Standard exhaust on a 991S is much better than a 981S, I would go so far as to say desirable but non essential (unlike on a Spyder!)
PDK is essential, the 7 speed manual box is not Porsche's finest hour.
Once you have chosen PDK, you will probably prefer flappy paddles so need to upgrade the steering wheel.
Sports chrono only adds sports plus mode to the PDK and launch control - you will never want to use either of these on the road. The clock in the dashboard means that the car displays the time in 4 different places - once in the dashboard, once on the PCM screen and twice in the sports chrono clock. I personally wouldn't bother.
Bose is much better than sound system plus which in itself is poor.
Memory seats are better than sports seats, the ability to extend the front of the seat squab makes a big difference to comfort on a long journey and the seat moving back automatically when you want to get out of the car is a nice touch too.
Standard wheels are nice but they do get dirty quickly if you choose silver and take some cleaning.
Standard brakes are very impressive. But make the wheels dirty.
Light design package is quite cool and not dear.
Auto dimming mirrors make it hard to recognise fully liveried Police BMWs at night on the motorway, even when they are right behind you.
The 991 is so cool that once overtaken by a police car they simply flash up a nice sign that says "watch your speed" instead of pulling you. This also applies to Boxster Spyders. But not in Scotland.
Magic wipers work well as do cruise control and parking sensors. All should be standard.

Discuss!

 

[Dylan1]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

So the title of the thread was a bit pointless then as the turbo was never tried?[] Have fun with the configurator - hours of fun []

Good point Alan !!
I may yet try a 991 turbo before I put in the final spec partly ,as Tom says ,because there are quite a few now around at the 120 k mark and if the difference is .....well then I guess I could stretch a bit more []
But I think the 991 general feel would now favour even an S rather than a 997TT as I originally had as my dilemma
I guess the dilemma now is more that between a 991S or GTS or a prev lightly used 991 turbo .
I will try a 991turbo but to be honest the drive at the PEC confirmed that I don't think I am a good enough driver to use all that a turbo has to offer ,and that an S is at least as powerful a car as I can,or perhaps should ,handle []

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: rob.kellock

Sports chrono only adds sports plus mode to the PDK and launch control - you will never want to use either of these on the road. The clock in the dashboard means that the car displays the time in 4 different places - once in the dashboard, once on the PCM screen and twice in the sports chrono clock. I personally wouldn't bother.


Discuss!

Doesn't sport chrono also include dynamic engine mounts? I disagree that you will not benefit from having it. A "launch" now and again, especially when you're showing off to a mate, will always induce a big grin.[]
Another add on not mentioned in Rob's list is PDCC. I would have it but, like many things, it's another "marmite" moment.

 

[Dylan1]

in fact theres a tantalsingly priced turbo in reading at just under £110k!!

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

So the title of the thread was a bit pointless then as the turbo was never tried?[] Have fun with the configurator - hours of fun []

Good point Alan !!
I may yet try a 991 turbo before I put in the final spec

How can you 'forget' to try a 991 turbo []

As you say, if you feel you don't want any more performance than you're going to get with an S, you might rule it out on paper. Nothing wrong with that. If you do try a turbo it will be a little hard to compare after PEC. On a general road test drive the salesman is not going to urge you to press on in a turbo like they would do at PEC, especially when they know you haven't driven one before. Some salesmen are OK but some are very conservative and will barely let you into Sport Mode and will deliberately take you on a route that won't allow you to stretch its legs, for safety after other nutters have ruined it for the rest of us. I reckon a thrilling day out at PEC in an S vs a quick road test in a turbo might not enable you to compare the difference in performance.

There's nothing wrong with ruling out (or in) a car on paper. My very first Porsche test drive was a gen 1 2.7 Cayman. I was very impressed. I then thought i'd always be thinking 'what if', so when I eventually came to buy, I put a deposit on a Cayman S without test driving one.

With the current car, I didn't test drive a turbo ever, even the one I bought (the one I bought was too far away to arrange a test drive and I just didn't bother to test one locally). My mind was made up that I wanted torque so I decided on paper that a test drive was never going to put me off. I'd driven enough 997's to decide I wanted a 997, so didn't bother to test a turbo.

If your mind is set on a 991S go for it. As you rightly say, you personally might not exploit the extra of the turbo to justify it. You're already making the right noises that a turbo doesn't grab you. I know someone with a 991 Carrera who I can't convince to put super-unleaded in it. He's happy with the performance he gets from his local super market's standard unleaded. He's happy not spending the extra on super-unleaded, not even the super market's own. As you say, there's always something faster - it depends on whether YOU want it.

The comment about supercar vs sports car was genuine. Who knows what the definition of supercar is, but the 911 must be one of the most versatile platforms on the planet. It's offered as a sports car from 350HP/390Nm to supercar at 560HP/750Nm and has been as high performance as 620HP in the GT2 RS. It's offered as a GT car, a track car, it's a race car in many classes from sprint racing to endurance racing and has been rallying. All very different incarnations. Different models go up against Jaguar/Aston/BMW/Merc and some models go up against Audi R8/Ferrari/Lamborghini etc. Definitely not a one-size-fits-all.

 

[lowndes]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

I will try a 991turbo but to be honest the drive at the PEC confirmed that I don't think I am a good enough driver to use all that a turbo has to offer ,and that an S is at least as powerful a car as I can,or perhaps should ,handle []

As far as I am aware there is no proven correlation between ability to drive and turbo ownership []

One or two observations on Options

Like Alan, I think Sports Chrono includes dynamic engine mounts and is part of an integrated system that enhances responses in chassis, engine and transmission. Plus it has Launch ....[]

PDCC is down to a personal preference and it would seem it doesn't suit everyone. I like it very much and would have it high on any option list.

My C2S had Sports Exhaust but I preferred the engine note with it switched off and wouldn't spec it.

I have been deeply impressed with PDLS+ and am pleased to have it on the current car but it is eye wateringly expensive. I would probably put it third behind PDCC and Sport Chrono in terms of desirability.

Seats are a conundrum. Apart from occasionally adjusting the backrest angle I never change the settings one month to the next. So there is a question in my mind whether the extra £2226 for 18 way adaptive is in practice worth it when an extra £312 gets you Sports Seats.

I think it shameful that Porsche can still charge £372 for rain sensor wipers but I do find them more than a nice to have. Ditto cruise, heated seats and parking sensors.

Many enjoyable hours on the configurator ahead []

 

[rob.kellock]

You are both right about dynamic engine mounts coming with sports chrono.

Apologies.

I have not driven a 991S without it so can't pass informed comment - looks like you might need it after all! I still think launch is a bit gimmicky though.

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: rob.kellock

I still think launch is a bit gimmicky though.

Of course it is! I can hear the conversation between the engineers now.... "Why do we put launch control on the cars?" "Because we can"...
It's still a hoot.

Second car me, third car, Clive...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7ib2uUD7c

 

[rob.kellock]

Good work fellas []

 

[okellyt]

Also Sports chrono backs off the traction control to allow a bit more slip and slide/drift t o corners and sharpen throttle response - plus allows the engine to rev much more freely. This makes a huge difference in the powerkit cars in delicacy of response and precision of throttle/steering drive through and out of corner (much more GT3 like).

 

[rob.kellock]

That's just sports mode which is standard? It is on my Cayman anyway.

 

[BigCat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7ib2uUD7c

You missed out the bit that the first car was me, no launch control and only 350HP []

 

[tscaptain]

I was trying to avoid any embarrassment......[]

 

[BigCat]

Here is something interesting, play the video and start a stop watch as each car goes off the line and stop it when the car passes in front of the marshal in Hi Viz standing on the left side (next to the guy with the white shirt) the first 3 times are all within about 0.5 sec, so not bad for a vanilla 991 v 997 Turbo with another 200 or so HP? Now I wish I had a 991 Turbo S.........[]

 

[Dylan1]

its obviously your superior driving skills then........[]
imagine what you will do in the GTS!!!!!!

 

[BigCat]

Well I wish!!
Interesting to see how much quicker the initial acceleration is by the 911 Turbos that have the launch control and of course masses more torque at lower revs, I had set the PCM to display Vmax and it showed 62mph for the first run and 64 for the return, I think Clive and Alan would have got a bit more than that before they braked as they can also stop in a shorter distance with their bigger brakes.

Roll on December[]

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: BigCat

Here is something interesting, play the video and start a stop watch as each car goes off the line and stop it when the car passes in front of the marshal in Hi Viz standing on the left side (next to the guy with the white shirt) the first 3 times are all within about 0.5 sec, so not bad for a vanilla 991 v 997 Turbo with another 200 or so HP? Now I wish I had a 991 Turbo S.........[]

As we probably only got to about 50mph I guess that would tie up! There's about 0.7 secs difference between a 991S and a 991 turbo S from 0-50mph. However 0-100 would be a bit different....[]