996 Engine Failure

Guest · Dec 17, 2004

ORIGINAL: NicD

Boxster was 25% failures amongst the 50% who replied

The partial result so far of the 996 survey looks similar.

Looking at the above, one would have to say if you had a RMS problem then you answer the survey and if did not you would ignore it.

My limit maths would say it looks like about 12.5% - 15% cars have had issuse.

I undserstand 14K 996 have been sold in the uk so on the above 2100 cars would have a problem with RMS.

Then you would look at the engine faliures which may be a small propotion of the 2000 say 15% again - 300 cars.

300 cars from 14k is 2%.

Guess who bored at work, It is a bugger if you do not have a warrenty if the engine blows, however you are also very unlucky taking my work out of the above, I can not wait until the real figuares come out

Guest · Dec 17, 2004

ORIGINAL: Ian W
Hi Berny

I sent NicD a load of pics of 7 similar blown and/or dismantled Boxster and 996 engines that were in the rain outside the back of Stratstone's in Wilmslow 'waiting to go back to Germany' (according to their parts guy). I've also noticed this pile of engines changes weekly so I think there are a lot more failures than we are aware of.

Anyone else care to take similar pics of heaps of failed engines at their OPC? As you say, how the hell do they deny a problem if there is a bucketload photographic evidence? I would also be intrigued to find out the engine failure / RMS replacement rate experienced by the top dozen or so independents. I think a lot of older cars (like my '98) are out of the dealer loop now due to the insane hourly service costs.

Ian W

ORIGINAL: n4das
Ian

I have been taking a series of photos of the same pile in Wilmslow especailly the serial numbers. Yes you are right they do change quite often

Ian, 4ndas. I have just been reading back through this thread. Any chance you could post these pics for properity [

]

Guest · Dec 18, 2004

Berny,

I would love to post the pics on the web but they are too large a file size. I have several pic of the pile out the back of stratstone.

As for the failures. The problem is that "no one" not even Porsche know which car is going to blow up or have an RMS issue next. This ultimately means that it is possible the next time you turn your key and dive out you many not be coming home in your own car!

Guest · Dec 18, 2004

Mahen, good one.
Any chance you could email them to me and I will resize them.
Cheers,

Guest · Dec 18, 2004

the next time you turn your key and dive out you many not be coming home in your own car!

This is true of any car (or bus, train, aeroplane, motorbike).
The issue is the liklihood or chance of it happening.

Laurence Gibbs · Dec 19, 2004

This is a facinating thread. With a lot of conjecture and hot air. Some hard facts would be usefull. Sadly Porsche are'nt going to be letting you all know the real extent of the problem.
What bothers me is that the RMS issue is still around in new cars as well as early 996's which suggests that Porsche have yet to cure the problem. I would be curious to know how many 996's out there have a leaky rms and how long they've had it. One would assume that so long as the leak stays at the 5 penny piece stage and does not get worse or start to foul the clutch, that the engine could go on for many thousands of miles and years before requiring attention. By which time other factors including wear and tear may well come into play. Bear in mind that if some of these cars do only 6k a year and the engine goes on for another 20k with a leaky seal that's 3years more use!
with regard to 996 build figures remember 14k+ per year since launch!

NicD · Dec 19, 2004

Thankfully, the likelihood of your 986 or 996 engine expiring next time you turn the key is extremely low. This is not to make light of it in any way, but let us keep this in perspective and not alarm all owners. Our two friends Mahan and Scouser rightfully want to keep this topic in public view but please note, they have NOT been joined by a legion of club members with similar tales. My own email box has less than a dozen examples, but lets wait till the 996 survey has been collated and followed up.

re these pictures of the "blown" engines, which disturb me also, I postulate that most are exchanged under warranty and cause the owners not much grief.

Richard_Hamilton · Dec 19, 2004

ORIGINAL: NicD

......but lets wait till the 996 survey has been collated and followed up.

Nic, when will the figures be released? Like most, although I haven't had any problems with RMS or total engine failure, I will be interested to see the numbers involved.

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

.... Your earlier comment - giving the impression that we're all doomed to face failed RMSs/exploding engines/gearboxes and that its just a matter of time..... (replying to Steve)

Gearboxes???????

As to it being "just a matter of time", I think the opposite may be true. If you haven't had a problem, then it appears that the more miles you have done, the less likely it is that you will have one. My friendly independent suggested to me that his experience is that once you get past 30000 problem-free you have got a good one, and once past 50000 it's fairly bullet-proof. The experience he has had of failures to RMS and engine failure have been with cars of 25000 and less.

Let's get some numbers before we all need Valium.

NicD · Dec 19, 2004

Nic, when will the figures be released?

Richard, I have just developed and given a wee database program to Sarah at Club Office to enter the 996 responses. Maybe she will have time to enter them this week.

I will then publish these interim results and at same time generate a reminder letter to all those that haven't replied, to build up the number to something statistically useful.

Note that quick hand count of results so far showed very similar result to the Boxster - I shared this above.

We may even re-poll the Boxster owners to see what has happed in the 9 months since the survey.

Once we have detailed stats, we can slice and dice them, to see number of reoccurrences, year of occurrence etc.

Of course, they will be supplied to Porsche Cars GB to pass on to AG

btw Richard, Tips seem to suffer RMS rather less than manuals

Richard_Hamilton · Dec 19, 2004

Nic

Thanks for that. You can probably assume that if they didn't reply they won't have had a problem! Interesting about tips suffering less than manuals. I wonder why that is? As far as I can see on the PET, they use the same crankshaft and seal. Did the Boxster survey show that as well?

NicD · Dec 19, 2004

Richard,

one of the strong theories is that an out of round crankcase hole and loading of the crankshaft is a major cause of RMS failure. Tips have no clutch and a different bellhousing and gearbox.

Guest · Dec 19, 2004

ORIGINAL: NicD

Thankfully, the likelihood of your 986 or 996 engine expiring next time you turn the key is extremely low. This is not to make light of it in any way, but let us keep this in perspective and not alarm all owners. Our two friends Mahan and Scouser rightfully want to keep this topic in public view but please note, they have NOT been joined by a legion of club members with similar tales. My own email box has less than a dozen examples, but lets wait till the 996 survey has been collated and followed up.

re these pictures of the "blown" engines, which disturb me also, I postulate that most are exchanged under warranty and cause the owners not much grief.

Nic

My intention is never been to "alarm" but when a manufacture of a product has no idea why his product fails other than it does then that would worry me.

With all due respect you know as well i do that i have kept most of what i know "out of Public view" due to my insane loyalty to the brand as well as legal reasons. The stats that i have gathered are from the horses mouth (ie Porsche) to coin a phrase. As for the legion, there is an army gathering.

Keithd · Dec 21, 2004

I joined this forum so i could find out more about specific issues regarding the purchase, after a great deal of saving, my long awaited dream car an early 996.

That is untill i came accross this thread !

Given the current discussion regarding mechanical failures, can someone please advise the best / safest way forward to purchase one of these cars or do i wait untill there is some sort of final answer from the manufactures on this.

I recently discussed this with an indipendant dealer he advised he had not heard of any problems and the warrenty he provided with the car would cover any problem , when i enquired to the claim limit i was told 5k, not enought to cover an engine failure.

Your advice would be appriciated.

Keith

Guest · Dec 21, 2004

keith

If you want to go down the warranty route PGB provide their own at 750gbp. The cover has no limit (other than the value of the car)but has only been in existance since june/july of this year (when PGB took over the running and the underwriting). I know of one guy who is still awaiting a decision on the degree of cover for his new engine. I wait to see if PGB honour the "complete cover" for a new engine.

Other than the above all i will say is that there was a reason for PGB talking over the warranty and it was not based on making a profit from the venture but more to do with protecting the marque

NicD · Dec 21, 2004

Keith,

we are talking of the Porsche Cars GB extended warranty which was upgraded and brought inhouse from June this year.
I absolutely recomend everyone (where applicable) to take out this warranty as it will cover major problems till the full cost of the car. also provide get you home cover.

If the car is not currently warranted, then it will have to undergo the detailed check by an OPC (and any remedial work) and will have to be serviced normally.

With this warranty in place I would have no worries at all about the car.

I myself would not trust any third party warranty offering, but you pay your money and make your choice.

Guest · Dec 21, 2004

Wish I hadn,t read this thread , just bought a very nice low mileage 1999 996 C4 Tiptronic for my wife as a present as she has always wanted a Porsche 911.

Daren't tell her what I've read here , to scarey . Fingers crossed we've got a good one .

Should I have bought a 993 ????

Guest · Dec 22, 2004

Nic

Still watching and waiting for developments on this subject with crossed fingers hence little input of late.

I have said before but will repeat for others new to the forum, I am totally against all forms of 'bolt on warranties' for any product that ought to have a reasonable life expectancy (100k miles plus) - particularly in this case where I (and most others) rightly felt we were buying something of real quality in all respects.

That said your advice re the PGB warranty has got to be a must for all 996 986 owners 'till such time that Porsche come up with an answer that works for those afflicted with RMS and premature engine failures etc.

Do you know what the extent of the cover in terms of age of cars etc - will they for example provide cover for a car once it has reached say 6 years?

Keep up the good work and Merry Christmas.

Ian W · Dec 22, 2004

Berny

Have PM'd the pics I have to you.

Regards

Ian W

philippe · Dec 22, 2004

I have recently purchased a 996 late 98 model, and have had a few nightmares since reading this thread as well. My car was serviced recently and they informed me that it needs a rear main oil seal and intermidate shaft seal, that is what they put on the estimate. So yes another RMS problem? I had a specialist check out the car before i bought it and there was no mention of a problem, i also tried to speak to the opc it was serviced at, they could not give me information unless i owned the car and at the time i didn't, i wanted to see if anything had come up during the last service the only info they could give me was, it has been well looked after, which with the specialist checking it out sounded pretty good. Now i own the car i have checked out the history on the car and it has been serviced by the same OPC by it's one and only owner from new and on time as it has only done 32.000miles and yes the RMS was mentioned in the last service, so 2 opc saying the same thing and 1 specialist missing it totally. As i like the car and it feels and looks like a good one i want to get the RMS replaced even though there are no leaks on my garage floor but i want to take out a warranty, so simple get it done take out the warranty and enjoy the car. But from going through this forum i am now thinking they could come up with somthing more serious like a new engine or gearbox from checking the history i know that the car has not yet had a rms replacment which may be a good sign or not? I might be being an old women but wanted to hear any opnions as the car is booked in in January and it is really playing on my mind.

Thanks Phil

Guest · Dec 22, 2004

This just in today from a poster on rennlist....

"I had my car in for service on Monday at the dealer and there was a 997S with 2K miles diagnosed with a RMS, clearly this problem has not been fixed with the 3.8L either."

And here are some pics of more knackered 996 engines out the back of Stratstones (care of Ian W. Thanks Ian).

And in case anyone is wondering, yes my aim is to scare the living daylouts out of you!