996 Engine Failure

[Guest]

Guys/gals..... if you have had an RMS problem please please consider displaying this
image in your signature or avatar. We need to be collectively protesting about this problem.
Showing this image in your posts symbolises your support.
I have 996/986 owners all over the Internet displaying it but little here.

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/rmsclubfailed2.jpg

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

....But from going through this forum i am now thinking they could come up with somthing more serious like a new engine or gearbox ....

Phil

I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I don't believe there is any relationship between the RMS issue and total engine failure. If you can get the RMS fixed and obtain an OPC warranty then you should be covered against both.

I can't understand where this "gearbox" thing has come from. I suspect it is all part of an expanding dialogue that is getting more exaggerated by the day. No doubt there ARE problems, but until we have some reasonably accurate numbers the extent of the problem is speculation. Whatever the situation, the largest part of the problem is that the Porsche organisation in its entirity seem to be denying that it exists, and in some instances are treating customers very poorly. The relentless expansion of this thread isn't really doing that much good at getting to the root of the problem, but is certainly going to reduce the value and saleability of ALL our vehicles. Hopefully the club will be able to gather some useful data, and have sufficient clout to make PGB take notice.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Richard Hamilton

I can't understand where this "gearbox" thing has come from.

Both my own OPC and a very respected PAG engineer I happen to speak to at the 997 release in Antibes told me
that a misaligned gearbox will cause both RMS and gearbox problems. I agree it is hearsay but unless Porsche
tell us what the cause is we can only but try to diagnose the cause ourselves. With 5 RMS replaced and a faulty
gearbox about to be replaced it seems feasible that this may be the cause.

The relentless expansion of this thread isn't really doing that much good at getting to the root of the problem, but is certainly going to reduce the value and saleability of ALL our vehicles.

Without doubt it will hit us in the pocket as residuals fall as news gets out of this problem. But in my case, I care not.
What more have I got to loose?

Hopefully the club will be able to gather some useful data, and have sufficient clout to make PGB take notice.

Gathereing information is one thing. Having the clout is another. I doubt the club has the latter.

 

[philippe]

Richard

I know the engine failure has not been confirmed that it is linked to the RMS, but my concerns were when changing the RMS they apparantly check the crankshaft out for wobbling in the bearings and if it is out this will mean an engine replacment, so in theory that is engine failure, that what was concerning me. £650 seal replacement is one thing but an engine replacement for me to pay for I would not be able to cover.

As i said before i think i am over reacting but have gone some to get the car in the first place any more massive costs would make me wish i had kept my Caterham.

Phil

 

[NicD]

Nigel,

I have just checked the booklet, the Porsche Cars Approved warranty covers cars up to 10 years old - you can renew up to 9 years

 

[Guest]

Berny

Thanks for that -

"there was a 997S with 2K miles diagnosed with a RMS, clearly this problem has not been fixed with the 3.8L either."

And another model off my wish list - the DB9 is getting closer[]

 

[Guest]

Nic

Many thanks for that - perhaps there will be an effective fix before the 10 years is up - but then again[8|]

 

[NicD]

But from going through this forum i am now thinking they could come up with somthing more serious like a new engine or gearbox from checking the history i know that the car has not yet had a rms replacment which may be a good sign or not? I might be being an old women but wanted to hear any opnions as the car is booked in in January and it is really playing on my mind.

Philippe,

specialists are rather casual about oil leaks (some just wipe them down), and maybe we should relax a little also. So, your '98 model needs an RMS, what is the issue?

The only (few) owners really complaining are those where a new RMS is needed each year, or more often even .

Get the full check done preparatory to the approved Warranty, fix whatever needs fixing, take out the warranty, then relax.

They are NOT going to tell you to replace your engine or gearbox.

 

[Guest]

test drove the DB9 a few weeks ago .................awesome !!!


RMS ??? not something I can fix in my garage then??[] . Oh well I'll worry about it when/if it happens till then we'll enjoy the 996 . After all its Christmas and we havn't had it long .

 

[Mark_Bennett]

RMS ??? not something I can fix in my garage then??

Funnily enough, one of the magazines (911 & Porsche World maybe) did an article detailing how to do this a couple of months ago...

 

[philippe]

Nic

Thank you for that, that has made me feel better. This would not have concerned me, but i do read into things to much somtimes. I guess the car has done well as it is 6 years old and the first RMS reported, so for a car I am enjoying £650 i can absorbe. I will go for the years warranty and keep an eye on things, and enjoy the car.

This may be my last time on here before Christmas so i wish everyone a happy Christmas and a good 2005!

Phil

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: NicD

specialists are rather casual about oil leaks (some just wipe them down), and maybe we should relax a little also. So, your '98 model needs an RMS, what is the issue?

The only (few) owners really complaining are those where a new RMS is needed each year, or more often even .

Get the full check done preparatory to the approved Warranty, fix whatever needs fixing, take out the warranty, then relax.

They are NOT going to tell you to replace your engine or gearbox.

Or 5 RMS replacements in one (1) year!

And yes they WILL tell you to replace your engine! They told me that the ONLY fix to my RMS problem is
a rebuild or replacement engine and it will cost ME about £5000 and that includes 50% good-will.

It is true that many owners just live with the RMS problem as it's perceived to be only a small leak often not even requiring any oil top-up. But the long term effects of this are likely to be catastrophic not to mention that selling a car with an engine oil leak doesn't bode well with its resale value.

From all the research I have done on the RMS problem, and it's a lot more than most, this RMS problem is "imminent" in all 996/986 n.a engines. If you don't have it now, you are one of the lucky ones but it "will" bight you in the end. We will see this become more evident as the cars get older. And in regards to engines blowing up, all I can say on that matter is that it frightens the hell out of me. Hearing about this is one thing but visually seeing them piled up outside OPCs is another and then when my own OPC tells me that I require an engine rebuild to fix my RMS problem it becomes even more concerning......to the point of being too pedantic/scared to even fire up the ignition!

Nic I am not sure where you are taking this. It seems to me that you are now taking the opinion that the RMS problem
isn't serious. Is it that you are getting pressure from the board to drop this or something? Please don't give up on us now. You may be are only hope.

As a matter of interest, have you or anyone else on the board thought about contacting PCNA in an effort to fight this together. The weight of both PCNA and PCGB fighting this together would force PAG into a serious position to put an end
to this debacle.

 

[NicD]

Berny,

my attitude has not changed, still working and fighting, but keep it in perspective - its all in my posts, and in yours. One RMS after 5 or 6 years is NOT serious!

Good suggstion to talk to PCNA, I will do this after I have the 996 survey collated. This is now delayed till after Xmas because poor Sarah is flat out adding new Club members, our life blood

 

[Guest]

Good one Nic!

Seriously, thank you for all your efforts. All the very best for Xmas and New Year.

 

[NicD]

and you too Berny!

 

[blueSL]

So, is the recommendation for those of us still in warranty to take out the Porsche extended warranty without fail and just accept it's increased the cost of maintaining your car by £750? Bit shell-shocked by all of this coming back to Porsche after a 9 year absence...

When you think the manufacturing cost of a marginal engine to Porsche is - what? - £1000, you would think they would be keen to salvage their reputation.

 

[Guest]

If you can get it, yes.
Because my car has had so many RMS problems they won't give me the extd warranty.
This is also what is bringing the residual costs down on these cars. Nobody in their right mind wants to buy one out of warranty. There's a RHD 2000 C4 on ebay about to go off at only £26,000 !
Eventually everyone will be able to afford a modern day Porsche and its exclusivity will be lost. Then those that buy them
will find out the cost of repairs and the attitide from PUK afterservice and as a result the Porsche name will become mud.
To compound this, Porsche is putting more effort to enter the general market place with SUVs and 4 doors.
I see a day when Porsche instead of competing with Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, etc their only competition will be BMW, MB, Volvo and Saab......and even these manufacturers are moving into the supercar market that Porsche seems to be stepping out of. If PAG would inject some of that Billion Euro profit back into its loyal customer base it would maintain its exclusivity. I'm a 3rd time Porsche owner but never again. They're fools unto themselves.

 

[NicD]

Mark,

I do recommend the extended warranty because it isn't so much money to give peace of mind, but so far, I have not taken it out on my Boxster. The adhoc statistics on Boxster/996 engine failures is not alarming UNLESS it happens to you. RMS failure does seem fairly widespread but not a big deal unless you have one of the small number of repeat failures when again, it does become expensive.

I agree with Berny that PAG should invest more of its huge profit into increasing customer satisfaction.

There is a cycle with older Porsches where the purchase price is realatively low but repair costs are still proportionate to original cost. This is an unpleasant surprise for many a naive new owner. Unfortunately this now seems to be happening earlier in the life cycle of the marque.

 

[blueSL]

I certainly agree with you. I come from recent ownership of a Mercedes SL600, 96, £102k which 8 years on suffered 3 major failures in as many months - gearbox, wiring loom, air bag controller, amounting to nearly half of its heavily depreciated value. So I dumped it for £13k. Truth is, the maintenance costs go up as the car gets older while the value goes down so the proportion of maintenance to value gets to the point where the car becomes uneconomic to maintain.

As for these engine failures, if they really are a significant issue across all cars, shouldn't we be rattling Car, Evo, Autocar, Auto Express' cage to investigate?

 

[Guest]

Only a few months ago I remember filling in the PCGB questionnaire with trepidation, ticking the box 'no problems with RMS.... Car's booked in today at OPC today, '03 C4S with 17k miles, and guess what, the RMS is 'weeping'..... It's under warranty, and they say they'll just replace the RMS (and I'll be renewing the warranty!!!)

I thought I'd read (from this forum) that an RMS cannot be changed, and that the engine needs to be replaced, any views? Also, my fear is that once it's had one RMS, this could be a problem 'for life'?