Another Cayman
- Thread starter ralphmusic
- Start date
OliR
New member
ralphmusic said:
A bit late in getting back to you on this, but thanks for the information. I'd say these days I'm probably 60% track and 40% road, and trending more and more towards track driving. I'm fortunate enough to be in a position where my Dad has bought a rather nice example of a 991.2 GT3 that is now doing very limited miles (ie zero), so I will go there eventually, but I have to think the costs for running it will be higher.
Like you say, life is short and I will swap to it eventually, however I'm at the point of needing to replace consumables on my GT4 now, with the brake discs showing small cracks and the front tyres needing doing soon, If I replace them I'd like to get something out of them too however, so the GT4 will be sticking around for at least another year... I will probably just replace the front discs and pads with OEM however.
The point around noise is interesting, I am completely stock and under the official noise tests I am 91Db, so I've never had an issue with quieter days and been fortunate to take advantage of them. Something I don't think I'd get away with in the GT3.
Life is short - and if you have to opportunity to try different things you definitely should.
That said... you don't need a GT3 to be faster that most GT3 drivers on track. lol. There is a lot of fun in becoming a quick driver in a lower powered car and going on the hunt. Cornering speeds in the GT4 are as high or higher than GT3 upto inc 991.2, but as has been said its then power on exit and down the straight were bigger HP comes into play.... although 718 GT4 is pretty much as quick with the right exit upto about 130/135 - and so only on the massive GP circuit straights is that difference going to be highlighted.
Running cost of the GT4 are a lot lower also... so more money to spend on consumables and more importantly seat time and tuition. The overall value of the car is lower also... so you probably will be more comfortable to push/ less hesitant... value won't be such a big issue in the back of your mind.
That said... you don't need a GT3 to be faster that most GT3 drivers on track. lol. There is a lot of fun in becoming a quick driver in a lower powered car and going on the hunt. Cornering speeds in the GT4 are as high or higher than GT3 upto inc 991.2, but as has been said its then power on exit and down the straight were bigger HP comes into play.... although 718 GT4 is pretty much as quick with the right exit upto about 130/135 - and so only on the massive GP circuit straights is that difference going to be highlighted.
Running cost of the GT4 are a lot lower also... so more money to spend on consumables and more importantly seat time and tuition. The overall value of the car is lower also... so you probably will be more comfortable to push/ less hesitant... value won't be such a big issue in the back of your mind.
OliR
New member
Ah you know what it's like though Tyrone, it's not about being faster it's just about something new/different. I will find it hard to part with my GT4 and I'm not ready to do that yet, at least another year of tracking it to come 
I do just want to experience that gem of an engine in the GT3 though.
Yeah, the running costs put me off slightly, I honestly think the GT4 has great running costs for what it is to be fair.
Are you at Croft next week btw?
I do just want to experience that gem of an engine in the GT3 though. Yeah, the running costs put me off slightly, I honestly think the GT4 has great running costs for what it is to be fair.
Are you at Croft next week btw?
I was at Goodwood yesterday on a GRRC 105dB trackday. Absolutely tipped down a good part of the morning but cleared up and track dry by noon. Real mix of cars, including a vintage Bentley, race prepared Jaguar 140S, Taycan and a Radical. They were running in 10 car groups versus the Club’s 6 car groups, no queuing or lining up in the paddock in batches. I think those differences work for GRRC as the average noise from their mix of cars would be lower than on a Porsche club day with lots of GT models and the more relaxed approach to driver scheduling made for a more natural, less regimented need to get on track. No problem with track time, all through the day there was only one session where there were more than 10 cars waiting to go on track, and it was cheaper than a Club day.
My new PFC slotted brake discs inspired confidence braking from speed (highest 144mph gps) for Woodcote and I don’t need to clean out the drilled holes.
In the queue, Mustang, Bentley and Taycan…
My new PFC slotted brake discs inspired confidence braking from speed (highest 144mph gps) for Woodcote and I don’t need to clean out the drilled holes.
In the queue, Mustang, Bentley and Taycan…
What a great pic!!
That's what I love about Goodwood, it can be tipping it down - then a couple of hours later everything clears up and you would never have known that it had rained. Every trackday I've done there on bikes or in cars has had an amazing variety of entrants, it must have been great to get out with a Bentley and also a Taycan - only at Goodwood!. 144 mph approaching Woodcote is going some!
Great news that the new PFC slotted brake discs are working well, a big bonus that you don't have to clean out the drilled holes in the discs too!
That's what I love about Goodwood, it can be tipping it down - then a couple of hours later everything clears up and you would never have known that it had rained. Every trackday I've done there on bikes or in cars has had an amazing variety of entrants, it must have been great to get out with a Bentley and also a Taycan - only at Goodwood!. 144 mph approaching Woodcote is going some!
Great news that the new PFC slotted brake discs are working well, a big bonus that you don't have to clean out the drilled holes in the discs too!
Some miscellaneous stuff:
At a GRRC 105dB day last month, I reverted to the OEM tips which noise tested at 94dB compared to two previous Goodwood track days with JCR tips which were measured at 90dB. The weather on this last day was heavy rain and heavy cloud versus sunny days previously. Thruxton and Castle Combe with OEM tips had tested at 93dB.
My "My Porsche app" complaint to Porsche was sort of resolved and as a goodwill gesture, I enjoyed a complementary weekend's Carerra Cup hospitality at Thruxton. I generally say hello to all and sundry so a selection of people I met; Will Martin’s dad and happened to be with him when his son qualified on pole, lunched with Race 1 winner Gus Burton’s family, had a long chat with Charles Rainsford and his crew chief on driving and running a Cup car (I didn’t get invited for a test drive though) and had a long chat with Oliver White’s grandmother with whom I share an interest in books.
Rainsford said he was going through Church at 137mph and max'd at 174mph before braking for the chicane. Rather puts my 90mph and 135mph in the shade. It was the first time he'd been at Thruxton and he got ProAm pole and P1 in the first race.
My other complaints dating back to April (am I difficult?) regarding the Track Precision app have not been addressed in two subsequent app updates. I now have another goodwill gesture couched as "what would I like?" As we and my customer service lady are both off on holiday next week (separately I hasten to add) so I'll get back to her on our return in October. "a 2023 GT4RS or a RS Spyder build slot come to mind" ha ha
I now have done 4,790 miles and 9 track days since picking up the car at the end of March so I am running out of miles with my 5k mile limit ClassicLine policy. I called Manning and ClassicLine this afternoon.
ClassicLine said "oh we can do 7.5k miles if you like - WHAT? they said 5k absolute limit - no extensions back in March! Anyway adding 2.5k miles to my policy effective today (5.5 months since policy taken out) would cost £447 on top of the original £1,186, so just about prorata to policy length.
Manning are £810 without track cover underwritten by LV - their track cover underwriter will come back next week on pricing. Their track day cover is under a separate policy, you can buy a day at a time but per day cost would be cheaper booking a number of specific event/TDO days at one time. I sent them my 2022 track day list to get an illustrative price but suspect that it will turn out to be more expensive than ClassicLine.
In March I tried LV for the GT4, road driving only cover was £417.
As we are off on vacation for a month I don't need to make an insurance decision immediately but ClassicLine must be favourites as they offer track day cover as a normal policy product. The smart approach might be to cancel current ClassicLine and take out new 7.5k policy both effective on the date of my next track day (I'll pass 5k miles on the event).
At a GRRC 105dB day last month, I reverted to the OEM tips which noise tested at 94dB compared to two previous Goodwood track days with JCR tips which were measured at 90dB. The weather on this last day was heavy rain and heavy cloud versus sunny days previously. Thruxton and Castle Combe with OEM tips had tested at 93dB.
My "My Porsche app" complaint to Porsche was sort of resolved and as a goodwill gesture, I enjoyed a complementary weekend's Carerra Cup hospitality at Thruxton. I generally say hello to all and sundry so a selection of people I met; Will Martin’s dad and happened to be with him when his son qualified on pole, lunched with Race 1 winner Gus Burton’s family, had a long chat with Charles Rainsford and his crew chief on driving and running a Cup car (I didn’t get invited for a test drive though) and had a long chat with Oliver White’s grandmother with whom I share an interest in books.
Rainsford said he was going through Church at 137mph and max'd at 174mph before braking for the chicane. Rather puts my 90mph and 135mph in the shade. It was the first time he'd been at Thruxton and he got ProAm pole and P1 in the first race.
My other complaints dating back to April (am I difficult?) regarding the Track Precision app have not been addressed in two subsequent app updates. I now have another goodwill gesture couched as "what would I like?" As we and my customer service lady are both off on holiday next week (separately I hasten to add) so I'll get back to her on our return in October. "a 2023 GT4RS or a RS Spyder build slot come to mind" ha ha
I now have done 4,790 miles and 9 track days since picking up the car at the end of March so I am running out of miles with my 5k mile limit ClassicLine policy. I called Manning and ClassicLine this afternoon.
ClassicLine said "oh we can do 7.5k miles if you like - WHAT? they said 5k absolute limit - no extensions back in March! Anyway adding 2.5k miles to my policy effective today (5.5 months since policy taken out) would cost £447 on top of the original £1,186, so just about prorata to policy length.
Manning are £810 without track cover underwritten by LV - their track cover underwriter will come back next week on pricing. Their track day cover is under a separate policy, you can buy a day at a time but per day cost would be cheaper booking a number of specific event/TDO days at one time. I sent them my 2022 track day list to get an illustrative price but suspect that it will turn out to be more expensive than ClassicLine.
In March I tried LV for the GT4, road driving only cover was £417.
As we are off on vacation for a month I don't need to make an insurance decision immediately but ClassicLine must be favourites as they offer track day cover as a normal policy product. The smart approach might be to cancel current ClassicLine and take out new 7.5k policy both effective on the date of my next track day (I'll pass 5k miles on the event).
These apps are generally garbage… but if complaining to Porsche is going to bay me free goodwill from them, I have a huge backlog of feedback complaints and improvements they can make. Lol.
I‘ve made the jump to a 718 GT4 this month replacing my tweaked 981 GT4 of 5 years, nearly 37k Miles in my ownership and c50 track events.
Now that i’ve spend some time in anger in a 982 GT4, there are some significant deeper than the surfaces differences which are interesting for good and bad. Overall its a better product as you‘d expect, although not quite as iconic as the 1st generation car. However, for my purposes… a tracktool, this new car should prove to be a strong partner, once I get it to where it needs to be on the chassis and brakes side. To that end, it will get full MR conversion - chassis & aero package, and PCCB rotors & Pads will be swapped out for Surface Transforms and RSC1. Can’t wait for it to be done.
My first trackday @ Goodwood in the car 100% standard, straight from dealership, showed the car to be a bit of a handful and wild ride at the limit out of the box, so the chassis kit will tame it significantly. Was nice to pass the noise test @ 92dba though, and really, the car is fast. The potential is there.
I‘ve made the jump to a 718 GT4 this month replacing my tweaked 981 GT4 of 5 years, nearly 37k Miles in my ownership and c50 track events.
Now that i’ve spend some time in anger in a 982 GT4, there are some significant deeper than the surfaces differences which are interesting for good and bad. Overall its a better product as you‘d expect, although not quite as iconic as the 1st generation car. However, for my purposes… a tracktool, this new car should prove to be a strong partner, once I get it to where it needs to be on the chassis and brakes side. To that end, it will get full MR conversion - chassis & aero package, and PCCB rotors & Pads will be swapped out for Surface Transforms and RSC1. Can’t wait for it to be done.
My first trackday @ Goodwood in the car 100% standard, straight from dealership, showed the car to be a bit of a handful and wild ride at the limit out of the box, so the chassis kit will tame it significantly. Was nice to pass the noise test @ 92dba though, and really, the car is fast. The potential is there.
Well done. The handling you experienced might be a result of factory alignment which in my experience is never right.
PDK for track use or sticking with manual?
Talking with Greg, he said MR on 718 GT4 invalidates warranty but that may have changed or not a concern for you.
Did you see the new Porsche hire from Mercedes to focus on electronics and systems? I’m thinking of emailing him…
https://europe.autonews.com/move/porsche-hire-mercedes-former-tech-chief-sajjad-khan?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
PDK for track use or sticking with manual?
Talking with Greg, he said MR on 718 GT4 invalidates warranty but that may have changed or not a concern for you.
Did you see the new Porsche hire from Mercedes to focus on electronics and systems? I’m thinking of emailing him…
https://europe.autonews.com/move/porsche-hire-mercedes-former-tech-chief-sajjad-khan?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Yes the handling is down to whatever geo it is currently wearing. The car had never seen a track before day 2 of my ownership! lol. Still on original tyres from the factory and none of the chassis adjustment points have been touched since it left the production line.
Ref MR & Warranty… i‘m pretty sure this probably case by case… but on the continent it is definitely covered, and my car will get certification from the mothership.. so I’ll check the fine print.
My car is manual… I couldnt live with the standard PDK knowing a proper short ratio PDK lives in the GT4RS and GT3(RS)… the engine in the GT4 is lovely and strong but manageable enough with Manual shift, which suits it well… Manual ratios have never bothered me on track and I don’t want to lose the interaction unless it replaced by the nuclear bomb engine from the GT3.
Ref MR & Warranty… i‘m pretty sure this probably case by case… but on the continent it is definitely covered, and my car will get certification from the mothership.. so I’ll check the fine print.
My car is manual… I couldnt live with the standard PDK knowing a proper short ratio PDK lives in the GT4RS and GT3(RS)… the engine in the GT4 is lovely and strong but manageable enough with Manual shift, which suits it well… Manual ratios have never bothered me on track and I don’t want to lose the interaction unless it replaced by the nuclear bomb engine from the GT3.
OliR
New member
I’d also like to know if you get anywhere with the track precision app, it shows so much promise yet always seems to let me down. There’s nothing quite as disappointing as getting back from a good day, checking the app on your phone and not seeing any of the recordings in there.
In my case I believe it’s when I’m wearing my Apple Watch that the app seems to have a problem, I vaguely recall ticking an option to record heartbeat if Apple Watch was on, which seems to have vanished, but now if I wear my watch the sessions never show up?
It‘s very frustrating as obviously the quality of the data they can pull out from the cars systems is second to none. I’m guessing it’s proprietary and we can’t get access to whatever API it uses, so not like we can write anything to work around it? I’ve found the quality of the software to be one of the weaknesses of the car, tracker, TPMS sensors, TPA. Mechanically very sound so far, though
In my case I believe it’s when I’m wearing my Apple Watch that the app seems to have a problem, I vaguely recall ticking an option to record heartbeat if Apple Watch was on, which seems to have vanished, but now if I wear my watch the sessions never show up?
It‘s very frustrating as obviously the quality of the data they can pull out from the cars systems is second to none. I’m guessing it’s proprietary and we can’t get access to whatever API it uses, so not like we can write anything to work around it? I’ve found the quality of the software to be one of the weaknesses of the car, tracker, TPMS sensors, TPA. Mechanically very sound so far, though
Without trying to hijack Ralphs thread… thought I’d post this up, now that I’ve have the car a little while and also completed stage 1 of the mods with the installation if the full MR kit… which for me was essential, as the standard car is too soft and loose for my taste.
Anyway, here are a couple laps from PCGB track day at Goodwood last weekend. Really great day and the car was a huge improvement from when I visited about 6 weeks prior when the car was 100% standard, and around 18hours after collection from OPC.
[tube]https://youtu.be/476W9ZApiyU[/tube]
Anyway, here are a couple laps from PCGB track day at Goodwood last weekend. Really great day and the car was a huge improvement from when I visited about 6 weeks prior when the car was 100% standard, and around 18hours after collection from OPC.
[tube]https://youtu.be/476W9ZApiyU[/tube]
Did I see you were using Track Precision?
Try a later turn-in to Fordwater (after the marker board) faster in and better drive out.
Do you think you'll be faster than in the 981?
Ralph
Try a later turn-in to Fordwater (after the marker board) faster in and better drive out.
Do you think you'll be faster than in the 981?
Ralph
Ha! … the Pit lane marshal didn’t like my little vBox sport windscreen suction mount, although I’ve used it there plenty times before… so thought to give PTPA a shot… typically...it only worked for 1.5 of the 4 sessions I did on the day lol…ralphmusic said:
In the lap in the clip.. it actually crapped out at the end of the run and then deleted the session data… so my only GPS data for this run comes from my GoPro.
yes, there are quite a few areas to tidy up…. Not on the correct line into and through madgwick, and probably a later turn in for fordwater. Also my braking points aren’t quite where I‘d want them to be but I’m being gentle with the OEM pads and PCCB rotors until I can switch them out over the winter.ralphmusic said:
ralphmusic said:
I’d most definitely think so!… 718 has more low-mid range torque, versus my 981… which might have had slightly more at the very top… but 718 is already travelling faster by the time you get there.
i didn’t think those laps were too bad for a manual car though, 2nd visit in that car… 1m25.6… and if you believe PTPA, late 1m23 looked achievable if I had put everything together and probably with some of the adjustments mentioned above.
What kind of pace are you on? So I know how much more gap I have to close.
TDT said:
Do you have reverse? ha ha
I'm on 1.32s these days but had 1.28 in my old self-build 3.8 Cayman "GT4"
I am the embodiment of "the older I am, the faster I was" [
]
Today I drove to Thruxton for the Pistonheads Sunday Service - in my old Mercedes A Class Diesel. The main reason for going was to walk the track.
Very cold and skating rink conditions in paddock and on track
Not much pit lane activity
Curbs at Campbell look best avoided...
Turn in marker for Nobel
Church - 137mph in a Cup car
Braking point somewhere..
The event was well organised - people who brought Aventadors, McLarens, GT4RS were brave. Stonehenge looked good in the frost.
Very cold and skating rink conditions in paddock and on track
Not much pit lane activity
Curbs at Campbell look best avoided...
Turn in marker for Nobel
Church - 137mph in a Cup car
Braking point somewhere..
The event was well organised - people who brought Aventadors, McLarens, GT4RS were brave. Stonehenge looked good in the frost.
Researching insurance options today. Background, I have a 5k mileage limit policy with Classicline that expires March 21st but will run out of miles when I start travelling to first track days (policy reverts to 3rd party only over 5k miles).
Classicline have quoted 7.5k miles at £1,464 with no commuting and 5.0k miles with commuting for £1,282 - they don't want to cover commuting on >5k mileage pa policies so it's 7.5k miles cover for me.
Cover for Zandvoort track day in April (en-route to Essen Classic) will be an extra £224. I get 6 free non-PCGB track days and any more (UK) will be £56 each event.
The Classicline website does not list PCGB for any discount on premiums but does list TIPEC at 10%. I called Classicline and was told PCGB members get 15% - I assume it is true...
I can get the GT4 added to a household policy for around £450 but a 10 trackday bulk policy would be >£3,000 so it looks like I'll stay with Classicline.
I'll get car out of the garage early next month for the first time since end of August for a run-out, then oil change, front PU clean out and protective coating for rads and suspension and start the season with Thruxton in early March (hopefully the ice will have melted..)
Classicline have quoted 7.5k miles at £1,464 with no commuting and 5.0k miles with commuting for £1,282 - they don't want to cover commuting on >5k mileage pa policies so it's 7.5k miles cover for me.
Cover for Zandvoort track day in April (en-route to Essen Classic) will be an extra £224. I get 6 free non-PCGB track days and any more (UK) will be £56 each event.
The Classicline website does not list PCGB for any discount on premiums but does list TIPEC at 10%. I called Classicline and was told PCGB members get 15% - I assume it is true...
I can get the GT4 added to a household policy for around £450 but a 10 trackday bulk policy would be >£3,000 so it looks like I'll stay with Classicline.
I'll get car out of the garage early next month for the first time since end of August for a run-out, then oil change, front PU clean out and protective coating for rads and suspension and start the season with Thruxton in early March (hopefully the ice will have melted..)
Having ordered from Demon Tweeks a Simpson Hybrid S head support on January [strike]23rd[/strike] 12th with 5-6 week delivery expectations, chased twice and now it is 6-8 weeks from now. Apparently because it is a new product, here's a >2 year old video. Really poor order management and communications.
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