Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPCs!

[kitchens]

New Spyder coming to market soon ...This car was previously marketed and a deposit taken by this company and then found out it did not have SC or PSE so the buyer pulled out of the deal . If interested in a nice car at a lower price of £40.980 contact the company direct Hippo on 01254 919000 ask for Jonathan Asworth I have no affiliation with this company .White .Spyder Wheels .Manual . Buckets .Cruise . 12K miles Delete Radio/Air Con .It is in Bolton OPC at present for a 4 year major service + plugs + brake fluid and new rear tyres .So potential 2 year service free motoring.

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: jimmy p How saleable would a white Spyder without air-con or radio be, fairly basic spec but manual, buckets and spyder wheels and low mileage??

Very saleable as they are very rare. At the right price it would be snapped up by someone looking for that spec, in keeping with the launch of the car. However the market dictates and it is not the spec that everyone is looking for because different buyers have different uses for the car. Some will want a radio for their intended use of the car on trips and drives where a radio enhances the occupancy, comfortable in the fact that it will no more blunt the performance than carrying a packed lunch. As we have seen, one such car has been withdrawn from sale before it sold. I didn't see the advert or the asking price or the length of time it was on sale, and I don't mean this in any way negative but it does show that there's a varied market out there and this spec although rare, did not sell over night. As I say, i'm sure it would have found a buyer in not too long a time frame and at whatever price the market dictates for said car, but given the general type of buyer who are buying the Spyder it doesn't necessarily make it more saleable than say a white manual car with buckets, radio and air con. Also note that radio delete is not a selling point in the brochures of other high performance oriented Porsche such as the GT3, so it's not really a Porsche brand trait such a the likes of say, fabric door pulls (which save even less weight but are more consistent in the branding than radio delete). Leading on from that, i've been reading the GT4 vs Spyder debates and which will be more saleable. I think the GT4 will instantly be more saleable but yet the talk around it seems to be more around that fact and buying the car as an easy seller rather than actually wanting the car. It seems that those after a 981 Spyder actually want the car and that might lead to longer term desirability than the GT4. No doubt a magazine with test them back to back and come to an obvious but pointless conclusion. The GT4 will be better on an ultra smooth track surface and the Spyder will do a better job of coping with less than perfect surfaces on the road, such is their difference in suspension. The Spyder has no competition in the Porsche range to serve the package it offers. However the GT4 may be seen as the baby GTx car, the stepping stone to the full monty. Things like the gear ratios that people are talking about and it's effect on the GT4's intended use, will matter less to the Spyder buyer who is not out to push the car to its utmost limits on a summer Sunday drive. But they may be able to push on a bit more in variable weathers and conditions as it's set up is more likely to hold onto an imperfect road surface better in poorer weather than the lower, stiffer GT4, especially if more extreme tyres are used on the latter. So it really depends on how you intend to use a car a comparing cars intended for different purposes seems pretty pointless. The 987 Spyder & R were closer in design. The 981 Spyder and GT4 not so. It's like the 1994 964 Speedster. Despite the design principles of the car, it wasn't typically bought by people looking for a full on 964 RS experience without a roof. That's with a car that had an interior similar to an RS, a lightweight roof and an actual Clubsport options package. But it wasn't intended to be as RS alternative and carrying a packed lunch with you or a radio would not have been considered worth worry about. They are now very sought after cars. "The 964 Speedster was designed to be a more focused "driver's car" and served as a hybred between a 964 Carrera 2 Cabriolet and a 964 RS. While it featured a softer suspension set up than the 964 RS, it offered almost none of the comforts of a normal 964 Carrera 2 Cabriolet, though power windows were standard and air conditioning and stereo were options. Porsche planned to build 3,000 examples of the 964 Speedsters in 1992 and an appropriate number of VINS were allocated, however only 936 examples were built and sold during the two years of production."

 

[flat6]

New page, cool daro911 pic[]

 

[MrDemon]

Although a good read flat6 that's all hear say ,as no one has driven both back to back. The GT4 with PASM off might be softer than x73. Who knows so a nicer ride on roads and it has the helper springs. As for car sales, the Spyder for sale was sold, the seller only pulled out because of the 981 delay ! Radio is a non issue as you can add one, AC is an issue as its pointless on the older car. And while I saw loads of steamed up cars at Porsche on the prom, my car never steamed up the whole trip even when it got very wet as I don't fit the rear section so rain did get in and make every thing damp, no misting up ! The car will never mist up with the rear section out. Yes , NO radio is not a good point, but if it's the right car/price you can easy fit one from a scrap yard for very little outlay. But again the cubby holes and the exhaust note out way radio 2.

 

[clubsport]

Don't believe the 964 Speedster hype so much, especially when they can have the tiptronic box fitted! I went to view a cheap 964 Speedster Tip a few years ago, I left it as I would never drive it. A bit wobbly to carry off the RS ethos! Although I own and drive manual, just drive a 964/93 tip if you want to see how incredible the PDK is in a 987/981.

 

[DarrellWilson]

ORIGINAL: flat6

ORIGINAL: jimmy p How saleable would a white Spyder without air-con or radio be, fairly basic spec but manual, buckets and spyder wheels and low mileage??

As we have seen, one such car has been withdrawn from sale before it sold. I didn't see the advert or the asking price or the length of time it was on sale, and I don't mean this in any way negative but it does show that there's a varied market out there and this spec although rare, did not sell over night.

Just to set the record straight, the car referred to is mine and was sold. Granted it wasn't at the top end of what it was advertised for but well above average, I think reflecting the desirability of the spec. The reality is that the Spyder market is narrow to begin with and a car advertised at the very top end of the previous price range (£50k) is going to make people think long and hard before commiting, also not many people have £50k to spend on a track focused/weekend car. I let it go at a lower price as I was being hurried along by the OPC as I originally had a July build Spyder. When I was notified that was now a Nov build I pulled out of the sale, which I felt bad about doing for the buyer but didn't want the whole summer without a weekend car. There had been a steady stream of interest via the garage, with people wanting to trade in and take up finance deals so if I had been more patient I am sure it would have sold at a higher price. It gives me confidence that this spec remains desirable but it is a narrow market. The more I read of the GT4 and compare with the 981 Spyder, the GT4 better suits what I'm looking for from a car. I'm concerned the 981 versus the 987 will need me to be happy with a number of compromises - e.g. steering, gearing, brakes, hood. I'm really keen to read the first reviews of the 981 being driven. In the absence of any further information my conclusion right now is, I'm looking to switch my Spyder allocation to a GT4 allocation - probably zero chance and if not I'll probably make number 4 on the waiting list for a Spyder at my local OPC very happy. If anyone is thinking the reverse of what I am, feel free to contact me []

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: MrDemon Although a good read flat6 that's all hear say ,as no one has driven both back to back.

Agreed, which is why I wrote it. The forums are full of people making judgements about the cars and vs each other, without having driven either[]

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: clubsport Don't believe the 964 Speedster hype so much, especially when they can have the tiptronic box fitted! I went to view a cheap 964 Speedster Tip a few years ago, I left it as I would never drive it. A bit wobbly to carry off the RS ethos! Although I own and drive manual, just drive a 964/93 tip if you want to see how incredible the PDK is in a 987/981.

Agreed. Whilst I don't know anything about 964 Speedster hype, I do know an ex-Speedster owner who said they are not great to drive. The point is that desirability, collectability, saleability may not have anything to do with whether the 981 Spyder has less GT3 suspension components that the GT4. It's another point being made on the forums including this one, when I don't think the people who will actually enjoy the 981 Spyder will actually care, just like the people who pay megabucks for a wobbly Speedster. Making money out of cars does not necessarily go hand in hand with whether they are a joy to drive or the best to drive.

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: DarrellWilson

ORIGINAL: flat6

ORIGINAL: jimmy p How saleable would a white Spyder without air-con or radio be, fairly basic spec but manual, buckets and spyder wheels and low mileage??

As we have seen, one such car has been withdrawn from sale before it sold. I didn't see the advert or the asking price or the length of time it was on sale, and I don't mean this in any way negative but it does show that there's a varied market out there and this spec although rare, did not sell over night.

The reality is that the Spyder market is narrow to begin with and a car advertised at the very top end of the previous price range (£50k) is going to make people think long and hard before commiting, also not many people have £50k to spend on a track focused/weekend car.

Agreed. It is a narrow market and not everyone in the market wants a car without radio and AC. Likewise, I said that it would get snapped up because said spec is very rare. As I said, I didn't know anything about the sale history, but i said it would get snapped up and you have confirmed that it did, but has been previously intimated by others, not yourself, is that said spec would fly out the showroom at £50K, quicker than any other spec would fly out the showroom at £50K. I also don't agree with those that say their spec is essential, be it with AC, radio or whatever, because their car has that spec.

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: flat6 Agreed. Whilst I don't know anything about 964 Speedster hype, I do know an ex-Speedster owner who said they are not great to drive. The point is that desirability, collectability, saleability may not have anything to do with whether the 981 Spyder has less GT3 suspension components that the GT4. It's another point being made on the forums including this one, when I don't think the people who will actually enjoy the 981 Spyder will actually care, just like the people who pay megabucks for a wobbly Speedster. Making money out of cars does not necessarily go hand in hand with whether they are a joy to drive or the best to drive.

As an ex 930 Speedster owner had the car for 14 years and many concours wins to its CV as a drivers car it was my 4th 911 and whilst being the most dramatic to sit and admire from the driving aspect it was state of the ark and the worst developed of all the Carrera 3.2 models between 84-89. The Speedster suffered very heavy slow steering and equally unforgiving ride due to the lowered stiffened rock hard suspension set up. Cost me brand new £55600 and as flat6 rightly says that car today would be worth at least another £100k plus over original list but as a driver it's was dated at launch in 89 so now best forgotten altogether for fun runs but definitely as fine motoring art it's only going one way if current trends continue []

 

[clubsport]

The point you have to consider when you bring up these older generation Speedster specials in comparison with the 987 and most likely the 981 Spyder, is that before the Spyder, these cars were mostly for show, rather than about driving dynamics. I had my heart set on a 930 Speedster, I drove it and was shocked, I then drove a 3.2 Clubsport and bought it immediately. No comparison at all, in my view and that was just on the road, let alone track! The convertible specials of recent years are much more capable drivers cars in the Porsche range than they used to be. The test I am interested in which may well be pointless and not happen, is the 981 GTS vs Spyder ?

 

[flat6]

I hear you Clubsport. A Speedster should not be considered an RS with the roof cut off. The 987 Spyder and R were designed very similar, but the 981 Spyder and R clearly have not. As Darrell rightly points out, if he switches from Spyder to GT4 is because he's looking for something different from one vs the other. Anyone considering the Spyder to be an open top GT4 or if they didn't get on the list for a GT4 simply switch to a Spyder for a bit of the same, have missed the point of these cars IMHO. The components on the GT4 and the lack thereof on the Spyder means they're not the same car or intended to serve a similar purpose, as was the case with then 987 Spyder and R. But I hear you that a 981 Syder should provide a decent drive. But with the GT4 having 30mm lowering vs 20mm, bigger brakes and more GT3 bits whilst the Spyder has been set up void of these, speaks for itself. GT4 owners may win that particular p*****g content but so they should. But given Porsche’s target market for the Spyder, I expect they've got it right that they don’t want 30mm ride height reduction whilst traversing their favourite B road. They may not sell many if it's too harsh. Take your Mrs for one test drive promising her an idyllic Sunday drive machine and she says nope, you're not buying that[]. The GT4 buyer just has to say you don’t need to come on a test drive because it's for track and I won't be taking you anywhere in it []. Don't take me too seriously on the latter points guys, but I do think the cars are set up to serve different purposes to different types of buyers. They're not open top and coupe partners IMHO.

 

[MrDemon]

Are you saying only men are going to buy them ? All this talk of Mrs etc If it's a soft GT4 then I am sure that will attract the female buyers

 

[tyinsky]

I have used the AC for both cooling the cabin and clearing the windscreen. Find it really useful as the car does let moisture in given the roof. Can see the appeal of a genuinely lightweight car to some or collectors. Not for me thank you.

 

[flat6]

I think it was yourself MrD who said the 981 Spyder suspension is standard X73. I haven't looked into that myself but X.73 is pretty much the 981 incarnation of the 987 Spyder / R passive suspension, which many are happy with on their 987. So it doesn't make any sense to me all the 981 Spyder caution. Yes there's further development on the GT4. It's all good. Yes it may come down to whether you like 981 steering or not but what new car alternatives will have better steering in this category? Don't say the Lotus and R8 are alternatives to a Boxster as I don't believe that holds true for many die hard Porsche Boxster fans. The funny thing is, those who don't want a Spyder are more vociferous than those who do want one and feel it is just what they are looking for. I think the same will happen with the 981 Spyder as with the 987. It won't receive a warm welcome widely and generally, but will find affection amongst those it suits perfectly. With the 987 the forums were initially full of people banging on about the roof and why they would never buy one, whilst those who bought one happily got on with enjoying ownership. I think the GT4 will have wider appeal from the get go and will be an instant success as the 'faster Cayman' that Porsche has made us wait a long time for. There was a thread that said the turbo should be more like the GT3. Err, why, there’s a perfectly good GT3 for that?! I don't get why a car gets measured against what it's not. Porsche have not made an open top GT4. They've never made a roadster or cabriolet coming out of the motorsport division, have they? To me the Spyder is as expected. Not as extreme as any GTx model, just like the last Spyder wasn't as extreme as any GTx model from the motorsport division. [And by motorsport division I don't mean the race car department!] I'm not in the market for a Spyder or GT4 but I think both are great additions (apart from omitting PDK which IMHO was to wait for some of the lower 911 models to get a power upgrade to keep ahead). I'd be interested in Porsche making a 900 to 1000kg car with a high power to weight ratio, using a relatively lightweight motor. Maybe that's something they could do when they introduce a small capacity version of their coming 4 pot turbo that we're all going to have to get used to. I like the Alfa 4C concept but would rather buy the equivalent made by Porsche.

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: tyinsky I have used the AC for both cooling the cabin and clearing the windscreen. Find it really useful as the car does let moisture in given the roof. Can see the appeal of a genuinely lightweight car to some or collectors. Not for me thank you.

Have said it before about 500 pages back[]have test driven back to back at PEC the lightest spec possible and the very heaviest on track absolutely zero difference in feel and according to the instructor on the day if he drove them both for a hot lap back to back there would be the tiniest of differences in them if any at all Just like the strap door handles it's all marketing hype as the real weight saving of consequence is fitted to every single Spyder the Power Top. Serious weight in a seriously bad place [] the rest is froth

 

[flat6]

That's correct daro. It was all about losing weight high up in the car and thus lowering the centre of gravity at the same time.

 

[kitchens]

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1989-porsche-930-speedster As discussed in a earlier post ....still commanding to £££ despite the ride

 

[daro911]

Red must be the hot colour this summer [] http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/boxster-987-05-12/porsche-boxster-987-gen-ii-spyder-pdk----------------2010/4224507 Porsche Boxster Spyder Guards Red Full Leather Interior including Dash and Doors PDK PCM Sports Seats Air Conditioning Sports Design Steering Wheel with Paddles Red Dials Switchable Sports Exhaust Bluetooth Phone Universal Audio Interface Sports Chrono Full service history from OPC Hatfield 15/03/12 5302 miles 13/05/14 6970 miles MOT 20/05/15 7633 miles I've owned since May 2011 with only one previous owner.

 

[jdpef356]

So how long will this one be around? According to some has will have wrong bits.[&:] Flat6 has is right, I didn't want my Spyder for track use, we wanted a spyder for events, shows and cruising both in UK and abroad. Crucial elements when when our list was drawn up were manual, heated chairs, radio air con etc. Other essentials were the spyder wheels and PSE etc etc and our first colour choice was Red. All our choice! All buyers have different requirements, just see how long it takes before this one with all the right bits for someone takes to sell.[]