Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPCs!
- Thread starter daro911
- Start date
[link=http://www.motortrend.com/news/spied-porsche-718-boxster-spyder-spotted-testing/]http://www.motortrend.com/news/spied-porsche-718-boxster-spyder-spotted-testing/[/link]
Will it have same power as GT4 this time around
Will it have same suspension ie PASM to match the bigger wheels & brakes it seems to be wearing off the GT4 and finally which will cost more money now that 718 Boxster sits above 718 Cayman[&:]
Will it have same power as GT4 this time around
Will it have same suspension ie PASM to match the bigger wheels & brakes it seems to be wearing off the GT4 and finally which will cost more money now that 718 Boxster sits above 718 Cayman[&:]
[h1]Porsche 718 Boxster Spyder to use 911 GT3 flat six power[/h1]Featherweight drop-top will swap turbo four power for the high-revving unit of its sibling
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[*] 1 February 2018 [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-reviews/porsche]Porsche[/link] is developing the most driver-focused version of its current [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/718-boxster]718 Boxster[/link] with the naturally aspirated, flat six engine of the latest [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/911-gt3]911 GT3[/link] - and its now moved testing to the cold climates of the Arctic Circle.
The next Boxster Spyder, which will be heavily related to the 718 [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/cayman-gt4-2015-2016]Cayman GT4[/link], will use a 4.0-litre engine in place of the current hottest 718’s turbocharged 2.5-litre flat four.
Porsche Motorsport has stuck to the formula applied to the car’s predecessors, which have cemented [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/boxster-spyder-2015-2016]themselves as the driver’s Boxster model since 2009,[/link] giving the car a more responsive drivetrain that will make it the most involving Boxster on sale.
“Natural aspiration is one of our main USPs,” [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/next-porsche-cayman-gt4-stick-naturally-aspirated-flat-six]Andreas Preuninger, head of GT car development at Porsche told Autocar earlier this year[/link]. “At Motorsport, we think we can achieve throttle response and immediacy a little bit better with an atmospheric high-revving engine than any kind of turbo.”
Output for the 4.0-litre unit is rated at 493bhp at 8250rpm in the 911 GT3, but the Boxster Spyder’s power may be slightly down on this in order to leave breathing space for its more expensive sibling.
The previous Spyder used a 3.8-litre flat six taken from the 911 Carrera of the time that was good for 370bhp. [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-la-motor-show/porsche-718-cayman-gts-and-boxster-gts-revealed-361bhp]The recently launched Boxster GTS and related Cayman GTS [/link]use highly-strung four-pot engines with 361bhp, so the new Spyder will need to produce more power to cement itself as the top Boxster. An output of around 425bhp seems likely.
To signify its driver focus, the car will be offered with a six-speed manual gearbox as standard, but those after maximum on track performance will be able to select the option of a seven-speed PDK dual-clutch transmission.
The Spyder will also go on a hefty diet, ditching cabin insulation and even a radio and air conditioning. The 718 Boxster’s electric folding soft top will also go, in its place a manually removable ‘tent top’. These weight savings will combine with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 rubber to make the car the sharpest handling production Boxster yet produced.
Much of the design treatment applied the Boxster Spyder will mirror those featured on the GTS. The Cayman GT4 will likely get the same adjustments, along with a more prominent rear wing to signify its even harder status.
No arrival date for the Boxster Spyder has been set, but the newly launched GTS (which went on sale last month) suggests it could arrive later this year.
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The next Boxster Spyder, which will be heavily related to the 718 [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/cayman-gt4-2015-2016]Cayman GT4[/link], will use a 4.0-litre engine in place of the current hottest 718’s turbocharged 2.5-litre flat four.
Porsche Motorsport has stuck to the formula applied to the car’s predecessors, which have cemented [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/boxster-spyder-2015-2016]themselves as the driver’s Boxster model since 2009,[/link] giving the car a more responsive drivetrain that will make it the most involving Boxster on sale.
“Natural aspiration is one of our main USPs,” [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/next-porsche-cayman-gt4-stick-naturally-aspirated-flat-six]Andreas Preuninger, head of GT car development at Porsche told Autocar earlier this year[/link]. “At Motorsport, we think we can achieve throttle response and immediacy a little bit better with an atmospheric high-revving engine than any kind of turbo.”
Output for the 4.0-litre unit is rated at 493bhp at 8250rpm in the 911 GT3, but the Boxster Spyder’s power may be slightly down on this in order to leave breathing space for its more expensive sibling.
The previous Spyder used a 3.8-litre flat six taken from the 911 Carrera of the time that was good for 370bhp. [link=https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-la-motor-show/porsche-718-cayman-gts-and-boxster-gts-revealed-361bhp]The recently launched Boxster GTS and related Cayman GTS [/link]use highly-strung four-pot engines with 361bhp, so the new Spyder will need to produce more power to cement itself as the top Boxster. An output of around 425bhp seems likely.
To signify its driver focus, the car will be offered with a six-speed manual gearbox as standard, but those after maximum on track performance will be able to select the option of a seven-speed PDK dual-clutch transmission.
The Spyder will also go on a hefty diet, ditching cabin insulation and even a radio and air conditioning. The 718 Boxster’s electric folding soft top will also go, in its place a manually removable ‘tent top’. These weight savings will combine with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 rubber to make the car the sharpest handling production Boxster yet produced.
Much of the design treatment applied the Boxster Spyder will mirror those featured on the GTS. The Cayman GT4 will likely get the same adjustments, along with a more prominent rear wing to signify its even harder status.
No arrival date for the Boxster Spyder has been set, but the newly launched GTS (which went on sale last month) suggests it could arrive later this year.
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Like the idea of the PDK...dislike the front end should have kept the 981 look and those PORSCHE stick on script that is on all current model looks like stick on blocks . said it several times plant on the 987 rear deck humps and you have the perfect looking Spyder IMO .So who are going to change ??
Brian_Innes
Member
Daro911,
I would disagree with your comment that the current four-pot is "highly strung".
On the contrary, it is "mildly strung". The turbo boost pressure of the 2.5Lt flat-4 is a meagre 1.0 bar. My Abarth 595 Competizione 180 has a 1386cc engine with a mighty turbo boost of 1.75 bar. Now that is what I would call highly strung.
There is huge potential development still to come from the flat-4 engine. It's clear that AP is not a turbo man.
The flat-4 turbo engine in the current 718 is the first engine to be designed specifically for the Cayman/Boxster platform. The dynamic mounting points of the flat-4 are designed onto the engine block from day one, unlike all previous Boxster/Cayman models which have used 911 sourced engines flipped through 180 degrees. It is little wonder that the 718 handles so sweetly when the power train was designed specifically for it. A 500 bhp flat-4 turbo is reliably achievable. Now that would warrant the comment "highly strung".
The new Spyder, and subsequent GT4 replacement with the 4.0Lt flat-6 normally aspirated engine, will be the swan song of big capacity n/a engines in my opinion. That's not to say it won't be a good car. A 4.0Lt flat-6 revving to 8500rpm is a wondrous thing and I would absolutely love it.
For my thinking, it's an opportunity missed by Porsche, and AP in particular.
Brian
I would disagree with your comment that the current four-pot is "highly strung".
On the contrary, it is "mildly strung". The turbo boost pressure of the 2.5Lt flat-4 is a meagre 1.0 bar. My Abarth 595 Competizione 180 has a 1386cc engine with a mighty turbo boost of 1.75 bar. Now that is what I would call highly strung.
There is huge potential development still to come from the flat-4 engine. It's clear that AP is not a turbo man.
The flat-4 turbo engine in the current 718 is the first engine to be designed specifically for the Cayman/Boxster platform. The dynamic mounting points of the flat-4 are designed onto the engine block from day one, unlike all previous Boxster/Cayman models which have used 911 sourced engines flipped through 180 degrees. It is little wonder that the 718 handles so sweetly when the power train was designed specifically for it. A 500 bhp flat-4 turbo is reliably achievable. Now that would warrant the comment "highly strung".
The new Spyder, and subsequent GT4 replacement with the 4.0Lt flat-6 normally aspirated engine, will be the swan song of big capacity n/a engines in my opinion. That's not to say it won't be a good car. A 4.0Lt flat-6 revving to 8500rpm is a wondrous thing and I would absolutely love it.
For my thinking, it's an opportunity missed by Porsche, and AP in particular.
Brian
Ref engine types. What I can’t understand, is that these magazines get all the scoop photos, but none of them can say “it clearly sounded like a 6 cyl n/a” or “it clearly sounded like a 4 cyl turbo”......Better still why can’t they film or sound record the test car and prove what engine it has? Seems to me like a load of avoidable hype. same goes for alleged new GT4.
BJ Innes said:
Brian
I am glad you disagree with my four pot comment because I never made one
In the meantime my daily drive is a turbo charged 4 pot with tons of torque and I absolutely love it and my PEC day session in the 718's when they launched was a bundle of fun and had I not been use to a flat 6 for over 30 years I would have dived in and bought one but the sound track didn't do it for me at all after the screaming 3.8L in current Boxster
In 1996/7 when the Boxster launched it had the flat 6 from day one and as it was a clean sheet of paper design I very much doubt your comment suggesting Porsche didn't design a dynamic mounting point from the get go! I had the pleasure of meeting the designer at Goodwood Festival of Speed in 1997 and he told me as an ex 911 owner now raving about the brilliant chassis of my then 2.5 Boxster starting with a clean sheet of paper meant no compromises were made in achieving the end result which was awesome back then and as you say is still unbeatable today but a lot of what makes the 718 so great has to do with parts borrowed from the 981 Spyder & GT4 imo
Brian_Innes
Member
The flat-6 2.5, 2.7 and 3.2 engines of the original Boxster were, in my understanding, originally based on existing 911 engine blocks. If I am wrong in this statement, then I apologise. The point I was trying to make was, that the 718 now has an engine specifically designed for the platform, and that includes the revised configuration of the engine and transmission mounting points, which include new dynamic mounts for the Sport Chrono pack. Because the 718 has additional, and more robust mounting points for the drive train compared to previous Boxster/Caymans, these contribute significantly to the improved chassis poise and handling. As you say, the 718 also benefited from brakes, suspension, and steering components from the 911, and also a little knowhow from the Spyder and GT4.
Returning to the anticipated new Spyder/GT4 topic, I hope AP gets it right this time with the evolution of these eagerly awaited track focused cars. In my opinion, Andreas P made a blunder with the GT4 and Spyder by choosing a far too long gearing set and diff ratio. As I recall, he purposely chose high second and third gear ratios for cross-country rural road driving. This backfired big time, as it not only blunted the torque curve progress of the car, but exacerbated the silly decision to detune excellent 3.8 engine by fitting a smaller throttle body and a flap that didn't open at 100% on full throttle. Also missing was the facility to adjust the lower suspension control arms at the front and rear. Owners had to be content with 3 - ARB settings, and a choice of rear wing angles. Hopefully these errors and omissions and will be addressed on the new model. Track focused potential owners are now becoming more demanding and knowledgable, and expectations are higher. I recall a time when Porsche offered owners of 911 GT3's a choice of gear ratios as an optional extra. If only that option were to return.......
If Porsche is serious about competing for wins in the International GT racing championships, I'm not sure if the 4.0 flat-6 in the GT4 is right way to go about it. The current GT4 Club Sport is underwhelming in the world GT categories, being out-classed by the competition. Why don't they use the knowledge and development attained by the winning 919 LMP1 programme, and develop the 4-pot turbo as a competition unit? If the 919's 2.0 V4 turbo churned out a reliable 600+bhp, the potential power of the current 2.5 flat-4 would surely exceed that of the normally aspirated flat-6. It wouldn't sound as tuneful, but it would certainly be more likely to keep up, and possibly beat, the GT4 category competition.
Nice JCW Cooper S by the way Dario911. I used to own one too, the supercharged version, not the turbo.
Brian
Returning to the anticipated new Spyder/GT4 topic, I hope AP gets it right this time with the evolution of these eagerly awaited track focused cars. In my opinion, Andreas P made a blunder with the GT4 and Spyder by choosing a far too long gearing set and diff ratio. As I recall, he purposely chose high second and third gear ratios for cross-country rural road driving. This backfired big time, as it not only blunted the torque curve progress of the car, but exacerbated the silly decision to detune excellent 3.8 engine by fitting a smaller throttle body and a flap that didn't open at 100% on full throttle. Also missing was the facility to adjust the lower suspension control arms at the front and rear. Owners had to be content with 3 - ARB settings, and a choice of rear wing angles. Hopefully these errors and omissions and will be addressed on the new model. Track focused potential owners are now becoming more demanding and knowledgable, and expectations are higher. I recall a time when Porsche offered owners of 911 GT3's a choice of gear ratios as an optional extra. If only that option were to return.......
If Porsche is serious about competing for wins in the International GT racing championships, I'm not sure if the 4.0 flat-6 in the GT4 is right way to go about it. The current GT4 Club Sport is underwhelming in the world GT categories, being out-classed by the competition. Why don't they use the knowledge and development attained by the winning 919 LMP1 programme, and develop the 4-pot turbo as a competition unit? If the 919's 2.0 V4 turbo churned out a reliable 600+bhp, the potential power of the current 2.5 flat-4 would surely exceed that of the normally aspirated flat-6. It wouldn't sound as tuneful, but it would certainly be more likely to keep up, and possibly beat, the GT4 category competition.
Nice JCW Cooper S by the way Dario911. I used to own one too, the supercharged version, not the turbo.
Brian
Good grief Brian, I would suggest that you and others on here need to have your own specialist forum regarding the inner complexities and revelence of the technical make up and design of Porsches. Please don't think I know nothing and have lead a very sheltered life, but you serious techy forum peeps confuse the heck out of me Where do you manage to get some of this info - some of which, I would suggest that Porsche would probably prefer people not to know about.
All the best to all,
Dave
Where do you manage to get some of this info - some of which, I would suggest that Porsche would probably prefer people not to know about.All the best to all,
Dave
Brian_Innes
Member
It comes with age Dave........
Victor Meldrew moments are a side effect of growing old, and having seen it all before........
Seriously, Porsche need to get this new GT4 and Spyder right this time. GT cars are being increasingly used on the track these days as well as on the road. AP and his team are making decisions on the technical stuff that previously was strictly their domain. It's different now. Those of us who know our cars and have motorsport experience, are placing AP and his technical boffins under scrutiny like never before. If they flunk this, they will hear about it.
Brian
Victor Meldrew moments are a side effect of growing old, and having seen it all before........
Seriously, Porsche need to get this new GT4 and Spyder right this time. GT cars are being increasingly used on the track these days as well as on the road. AP and his team are making decisions on the technical stuff that previously was strictly their domain. It's different now. Those of us who know our cars and have motorsport experience, are placing AP and his technical boffins under scrutiny like never before. If they flunk this, they will hear about it.
Brian
I visited Porsche HQ at Reading yesterday. I managed to get an update from the Porsche Grapevine.
The New Spyder will shortly be on the configurator. However, it may take at least a year to get one. The Powers that be are still unsure which engine the car will have, the 4 pot or the GT3 de tuned 6. Read on:-
The reason for the non decision on the power unit is two new Porsche Factory's are being built.
One in Nigeria, the other in China.
Rumour has it, Nigeria it will be the GT3 engine. China the 4 pot. But that's not firm, just speculation.
Guess the choice of factory could be down to where they expect to deliver most cars.
Further more, (this is not good news for new buyers) I heard that production of the new 718/982 Spyder would be unlimited.
I will keep you all update should I get more news.
Summer is on the way[8D] and having heard the above news I think I will hang onto mine[]
The New Spyder will shortly be on the configurator. However, it may take at least a year to get one. The Powers that be are still unsure which engine the car will have, the 4 pot or the GT3 de tuned 6. Read on:-
The reason for the non decision on the power unit is two new Porsche Factory's are being built.
One in Nigeria, the other in China.
Rumour has it, Nigeria it will be the GT3 engine. China the 4 pot. But that's not firm, just speculation.
Guess the choice of factory could be down to where they expect to deliver most cars.
Further more, (this is not good news for new buyers) I heard that production of the new 718/982 Spyder would be unlimited.
I will keep you all update should I get more news.
Summer is on the way[8D] and having heard the above news I think I will hang onto mine[
]
Andrew Killington
New member
Great news for me John, a Nigerian businessman is offering me 50 million dollars if I set something up in my name , it will only cost me 5 grand, perhaps he could throw in a couple of 6 pot Spyders
Like your Avatar it looks a bit Fishy to mejdpef356 said:I visited Porsche HQ at Reading yesterday. I managed to get an update from the Porsche Grapevine.
The New Spyder will shortly be on the configurator. However, it may take at least a year to get one. The Powers that be are still unsure which engine the car will have, the 4 pot or the GT3 de tuned 6. Read on:-
The reason for the non decision on the power unit is two new Porsche Factory's are being built.
One in Nigeria, the other in China.
Rumour has it, Nigeria it will be the GT3 engine. China the 4 pot. But that's not firm, just speculation.
Guess the choice of factory could be down to where they expect to deliver most cars.
Further more, (this is not good news for new buyers) I heard that production of the new 718/982 Spyder would be unlimited.
I will keep you all update should I get more news.
Summer is on the way[8D] and having heard the above news I think I will hang onto mine[
Assuming some of the info we have heard on various sited and posts are true .. A question if you had the choice would you go for Manual or PDK ?
I could be wrong so happy to stand corrected but I believe the clutches on the GT3's can be mighty meaty weight wise which could mean PDK will not only be quicker but also less tiresome on our traffic filled roads
On the other hand I could be wrong once again but believe the PDK has slightly more user friendly ratios compared to the 6 speed stick shift cars
When I went from manual Spyder to PDK, which I drove 100% of the time manually using the paddles, it was slightly less involving as some on here say but it was also a lot of fun still as one could keep the power on full whilst up-shifting the downside with PDK for me was I found myself travelling way way faster on same roads to when I had the manual version
Getting back into the manual 981 Spyder has been a delight so for me I guess it might be if the clutch weight is significantly increased I could be tempted to a paddle shift again[&:] Should the rumour mill be correct about it being an option this time around
On the other hand I could be wrong once again but believe the PDK has slightly more user friendly ratios compared to the 6 speed stick shift cars
When I went from manual Spyder to PDK, which I drove 100% of the time manually using the paddles, it was slightly less involving as some on here say
but it was also a lot of fun still as one could keep the power on full whilst up-shifting the downside with PDK for me was I found myself travelling way way faster on same roads to when I had the manual versionGetting back into the manual 981 Spyder has been a delight so for me I guess it might be if the clutch weight is significantly increased I could be tempted to a paddle shift again[&:] Should the rumour mill be correct about it being an option this time around
GT3 has a lighter pedal than the GT4 now.
you can also flat shift a GT3 now in noob mode it has a flat shift option So you can keep on the power if you wish. (You can flat shift any manual if you wish)
GT3 also has a new manual shorter ratios.
pdk is still dull imo and not for me in these cars , I like driving them, it takes a bit of skill and more interaction To pilot a manual, it’s not just the gear change, a PDK car now had e diffs etc to help the car round corners, zero skill needed To pilot a modern PDK sadly.
you can also flat shift a GT3 now in noob mode it has a flat shift option So you can keep on the power if you wish. (You can flat shift any manual if you wish)
GT3 also has a new manual shorter ratios.
pdk is still dull imo and not for me in these cars , I like driving them, it takes a bit of skill and more interaction To pilot a manual, it’s not just the gear change, a PDK car now had e diffs etc to help the car round corners, zero skill needed To pilot a modern PDK sadly.
PDK on track is about the only place you might like it to gain time and be like an F1 driver
On the road In a fun car it seems pointless to let the car drive for you, part of owning sports cars is the interaction you get from driving them.
It's a free choice of course but I find PDK cars very dull to own.
On the road In a fun car it seems pointless to let the car drive for you, part of owning sports cars is the interaction you get from driving them.
It's a free choice of course but I find PDK cars very dull to own.
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