Engine swaps are easy too, even I can do it
Cayman GT4: Where are we up 2 now? Déjà vu Edition
- Thread starter ralphmusic
- Start date
ralphmusic said:
That would be an ideal scenario Ralph, although I'm not sure that the planners would agree to a GT4 RS or if the GT group has sufficient resources for the three options.
It seems to me that Porsche are in a bit of a quandry if they're to respond to the potential performance of the Mercedes AMG GT4 race car with its 510PS 4.0L V8 bi-turbo engine. Maybe the next Cayman GT4 Clubsport will be slightly lighter than the Merc (~1,300kg vs 1,390kg?), but surely it will need the 991.2 GT3 engine to be fully competitive, although that engine's still down significantly on torque compared with the Merc's (460Nm vs 600Nm).
By the way, I see that in his Car magazine test of the Cayman GTS, Georg Kacher says that the next GT4 is due in the spring. Maybe he knows something we don't?
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
Re the GT4 race car homologation, I completely agree with your comments Ralph, that Porsche should start with a race car base and work back to a road car for the GT range. The Cayman mid-engine platform is the obvious race car choice, and I wish Porsche would ditch the mind-set that seems stuck on the 911 platform. Porsche have already recognised the dynamic benefits of mid-engine layout with the 911 RSR, but why do they persist with this?
Porsche already have 700 bhp/600nm flat six in the 991.2 GT2, so why not transplant this unit into the Cayman platform suitably lightened and aero optimised.
Porsche have been struggling for years on the world GT motorsport championships, principally because of their obsession with the 911 platform. Time to move on imo.
I'm a very interested spectator on how this new Cayman GT4 will evolve as I'm pretty confident it'll include a PDK option whatever the cylinder count or induction process.
Brian
Porsche already have 700 bhp/600nm flat six in the 991.2 GT2, so why not transplant this unit into the Cayman platform suitably lightened and aero optimised.
Porsche have been struggling for years on the world GT motorsport championships, principally because of their obsession with the 911 platform. Time to move on imo.
I'm a very interested spectator on how this new Cayman GT4 will evolve as I'm pretty confident it'll include a PDK option whatever the cylinder count or induction process.
Brian
Chris,
Don't get your hopes too high re a detuned GT3 engine. As discussed here some time ago (e.g. page 3 post #57), owing to cost constraints it's more likely to be stroked version of the 3.8L in your GT4.
But like last time, maybe Porsche will surprise us...!
Jeff
Don't get your hopes too high re a detuned GT3 engine. As discussed here some time ago (e.g. page 3 post #57), owing to cost constraints it's more likely to be stroked version of the 3.8L in your GT4.
But like last time, maybe Porsche will surprise us...!
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
Motoring scribe Andrew Frankel says in Autocar mag recently, the new GT4 will definitely have a flat-6 engine. Whether it's a 4 litre normally aspirated, or a turbo remains to be seen. Stranger things have happened.
Personally, I'm still not dismissing the possibility of further development of the flat-4 turbo appearing in a R or GT4 version of the Cayman. Porsche have a wealth of experience with 4 cylinder turbo engines from the series winning 919 LMP1 project. Seems to me a shame to waste it. Ever stringent group emissions regs, further reduced to 94gms Co2 across the range, come into force in 2020. The days of large capacity n/a engines are decidedly numbered. Might this be the swan song of such machines?
Whatever Porsche has in store for us, I'm sure it will be a further improvement on the outgoing GT4, which is already a fabulous track focused car. I also hope Porsche address the long gearing/diff ratio, provide a proper range of geo adjustments available, and offer a PDK option.
Brian
Personally, I'm still not dismissing the possibility of further development of the flat-4 turbo appearing in a R or GT4 version of the Cayman. Porsche have a wealth of experience with 4 cylinder turbo engines from the series winning 919 LMP1 project. Seems to me a shame to waste it. Ever stringent group emissions regs, further reduced to 94gms Co2 across the range, come into force in 2020. The days of large capacity n/a engines are decidedly numbered. Might this be the swan song of such machines?
Whatever Porsche has in store for us, I'm sure it will be a further improvement on the outgoing GT4, which is already a fabulous track focused car. I also hope Porsche address the long gearing/diff ratio, provide a proper range of geo adjustments available, and offer a PDK option.
Brian
Brian,
If Frankel's information is correct then it can only be a n/a engine. As you know, the reason given by Porsche for the F-4 turbo engine in the 718 was that there was insuffient room in the engine bay for an F-6 twin-turbo with an appropriate (air-coolant??) intercooler installation.
There are a number of things on the Mk2 GT4 wish list we'd all like to see, but we'll just have to wait and see what turns up.
Jeff
If Frankel's information is correct then it can only be a n/a engine. As you know, the reason given by Porsche for the F-4 turbo engine in the 718 was that there was insuffient room in the engine bay for an F-6 twin-turbo with an appropriate (air-coolant??) intercooler installation.
There are a number of things on the Mk2 GT4 wish list we'd all like to see, but we'll just have to wait and see what turns up.
Jeff
Heat management also seems to be an issue even with 4 cylinders with SportAuto noting a power drop-off on track. A German tuner I know is being conservative with tuning as the ECU trims power if engine temperatures get too high and there is even less room in the engine compartment for air flow with a 6 cylinder.
Hardly surprising Ralph.
The Cayman must be one of the only mid-engined cars with a useful boot, so space must be at a premium in the engine bay despite its flat-4 layout; and that air-to-coolant intercooler must take up quite a lot of room and radiate a fair amout of heat too. Presumably the side intakes are the main source of engine bay cooling air but they also have to double-up supplying the induction system.
Jeff
The Cayman must be one of the only mid-engined cars with a useful boot, so space must be at a premium in the engine bay despite its flat-4 layout; and that air-to-coolant intercooler must take up quite a lot of room and radiate a fair amout of heat too. Presumably the side intakes are the main source of engine bay cooling air but they also have to double-up supplying the induction system.
Jeff
Brian_Innes
Member
In my experience taking in 4 track days with my 718 last year, I can honestly say I didn't become aware of any noticeable drop-off of power during my few hot laps. The 718 CS PDK with a similar spec to mine achieved a remarkable 7min 40sec lap of the Nordschleife, which is a long circuit to do a hot lap on, including the warm-up out lap. Unfortunately no stats are available on engine temps when the test driver retuned to the pits.
Maybe Sport Auto testers hammered the 718 for hours on end and noticed the drop-off of power. I think it would only be an issue in very extreme conditions and with relentless track testing. I acknowledge that engine bay temps can be an issue with this model in certain ambient conditions if the car is hammered. As you say Ralph, that's probably why Porsche have programmed the ECU to back-off power when such extremes temps are reached.
I have to say the next Cayman GT4 will indeed be retaining the flat-6 n/a configuration, which will no doubt please AP and his team at Weisach, as well as the flat-4 turbo haters. The car will be surely be another icon in the making. I only hope the speculators are cold-shouldered, and the sometime dubious favouritism displayed by some OPC's in who gets a built slot, will be a lot fairer than it was with the 981 GT4. I missed out on GT4 ownership in 2014-15 because of pecking order favouritism, over genuine enthusiast interest.
Whatever happens, I can hardly wait!
Brian
Maybe Sport Auto testers hammered the 718 for hours on end and noticed the drop-off of power. I think it would only be an issue in very extreme conditions and with relentless track testing. I acknowledge that engine bay temps can be an issue with this model in certain ambient conditions if the car is hammered. As you say Ralph, that's probably why Porsche have programmed the ECU to back-off power when such extremes temps are reached.
I have to say the next Cayman GT4 will indeed be retaining the flat-6 n/a configuration, which will no doubt please AP and his team at Weisach, as well as the flat-4 turbo haters. The car will be surely be another icon in the making. I only hope the speculators are cold-shouldered, and the sometime dubious favouritism displayed by some OPC's in who gets a built slot, will be a lot fairer than it was with the 981 GT4. I missed out on GT4 ownership in 2014-15 because of pecking order favouritism, over genuine enthusiast interest.
Whatever happens, I can hardly wait!
Brian
I agree entirely. I have discussed this with my OPC who insists it will be genuine loyal clients who get these cars in the future not flippers.
We will see!
We will see!
BJ Innes said:
Some people are actually using their GT4s, this at 40k miles
https://www.facebook.com/Sharkwerks/photos/a.105089766219322.8055.105086862886279/1683702965024653/?type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/Sharkwerks/photos/a.105089766219322.8055.105086862886279/1683702965024653/?type=3&theater
ted walker
New member
have been offered a slot by my OPC a couple of weeks ago.
Interesting to note that although there've been sightings of the 718/982 Spyder around Stuttgart and also undergoing winter testing ( https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=719756&mpage=938#989058 note: with and without side scoops!), GT4 pics are notable for their absence.
As far as I know Spyder development is handled by the general vehicle development team rather than the GT Group, so maybe AP is capitalising on their resources for engine (and chassis?) development time.
Jeff
As far as I know Spyder development is handled by the general vehicle development team rather than the GT Group, so maybe AP is capitalising on their resources for engine (and chassis?) development time.
Jeff
Motorhead said:
So no improvement to lamentable range of chassis adjustment?
Brian_Innes
Member
So true Ralph!
Also lamentable choice of gearing on the 981 GT4 by AP.
Brian
Also lamentable choice of gearing on the 981 GT4 by AP.
Brian
Just received a subscriber's email from Autocar stating that the 718 Spyder will have the current 4.0 GT3 engine, probably de-tuned to 425bhp along with weight-saving features. Manual as standard, PDK optional, to be launched later this year. It also says that the Spyder is 'heavily related' to the 718 Cayman GT4 which may have a little more power....
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