Cayman GT4: Where are we up to now?
- Thread starter Motorhead
- Start date
Jeff I know you like the blue but when I was at PEC I didn't think the new blue looked as special as the flat colours like yellow. Still think flat colours suit the GT cars best, did you see the 911 inside in the light blue? For me white is still the only colour I could live with.
Chris, There are two blues available - I rather like the [lighter] Saphire blue metallic which I've seen on other Porsches, but not the Cayman. White and red look good in the pics and on the road, but yellow is a bit "in yer face" for me. Yes, that custom light blue 991 looked very nice...a bit expensive though @ £3k. Jeff
True Chris, but with less power [320hp] from it's Audi turbo-4. An interesting series with cars from Ginetta, Porsche [997], BMW and Aston Martin and not forgetting Chevy, Lotus and Nissan as well. Just to quote the site: Last year’s participants classified the 2014 season as ‘exciting’. Most of them were able to step onto podium as the equally balanced cars provided close racing. A good example is Jörg Viebahn. He managed to take overall victory in a Ginetta G50, Porsche 997 GT4 and a BMW M3 GT4. It was an extraordinary result for the German race driver. It does also prove the excellent way of balancing the performance of the different makes. Jeff
Ollie Marriage09 March 2015 First drive: Porsche Cayman GT4 The Cayman is finally allowed to cut loose. Out with it, is the Cayman GT4 fit to stand shoulder to shoulder with the 911 GT3? Absolutely. It's a humdinger of a car, mighty on track, addictive on the road and capable of making your fizzy bits fizz like you've dropped an Alfa Seltzer into your pants. It's... proper. What, better than a GT3? Wrong question. Different, but a genuine Porsche GT product right down to the sole of its Michelins. By which I mean it's got a definite track focus - this is not a benignly upgraded Cayman with soothing road manners. The ride is decidedly firm, road noise a bit more intrusive, compromises have been made. But this is reassuring, it shows Porsche has approached the Cayman with the right mindset. Oh, and let's clear something else up right now - the reason we haven't had this car before is not because of internal wranglings about overlap with the 911, it's because the GT division hasn't had the manpower and resources to be able to do it. So will there ultimately be a GT4 RS, then? Very unlikely, I'm afraid. But there's plenty here to keep you occupied for the time being. The 3.8-litre flat six is borrowed from the Carrera S, but turned through 180 degrees so the motor sits amidships with the gearbox trailing behind. There are a few tweaks, but power and torque remain the same at 380bhp and 310lb ft. Despite the extra capacity over the 3.4-litre Caymans, this engine is only about 7kg heavier, and yes, your only choice is a six-speed manual gearbox. No PDK on the options list here. What about the suspension? Largely borrowed from the 911 GT3, which means you can adjust the front and rear set-ups if you can be bothered to jack it up and get a spanner out. Which apparently, a lot of GT car owners do. Porsche believes 80 per cent of its GT cars are used on tracks and that people like to have a tinker around with them. It's lowered 30mm compared to a standard Cayman, the front track is 13mm wider, the brakes are carried over from the GT3, and are upgradable to PCCB ceramics for a smidge under £5,000. Other options include the one-piece bucket seats from the 918 Spyder. I found them too upright in the 918, but the padding of the £1,907 carbon chairs has been adjusted and now they're just right. The driving position is spot on, the ergonomics of the cabin as close to faultless as I can imagine. Even the pedals are exactly where you want them. Exactly. It's a car that makes you want to drive it properly. And it looks stunning. It may well be the first Cayman to generate downforce, but the way it sits on the road, the angle of attack of the rear wing, the slammed ride height means it absolutely looks the part. Isn't there a Club Sport pack, too? Yep, £2,670 for a rear cage, six point harness and fire extinguisher. If you want to take it racing, Porsche can also add a front cage, too. The message here is that just because this is Porsche's entry level sports car doesn't mean it's gone soft. In fact I reckon it's less forgiving than a GT3. I remember driving that and thinking I could happily live with it every day - the PDK gearbox meant you weren't sweating shifts in traffic and the damping was remarkably supple. The GT4 isn't hard work exactly, but it will bash you about a bit on a bumpy road. If you're not intending to go near a track the GTS might be a better bet. Do you mean that? Nope, probably not, just threw it in there to make sure you realise the GT4 is a step on. The grip it generates is outrageous, and I'm not sure the GT3 steers with as much purity - there's real resistance through the steering, making you aware of the forces you're overcoming. I'm not sure it's as tingly with feedback as the old Cayman R's hydraulic set-up, but it's more direct and quicker of rack. But it inspires confidence? Completely. You never have any doubt that the GT4 will steer exactly where you want it to at precisely the instant that you want it to. As a driver it doesn't give you many excuses. And the brakes are stellar. The car I drove had PCCB and bar the occasional low speed squeak they were fabulous to use, just so powerful and easy to modulate. A real highlight, in fact. Any weak points? None that really deserve mentioning, but I do think you can tell the engine isn't a pure-bred Porsche Motorsport unit. It doesn't rev with quite the same frenzy and snarl and snap, but any deficiency in that area is masked by the noise - it sounds gutturally wonderful, much louder and angrier than in a 911 Carrera S. And with less weight to work against it has great torque, and, above 5,500rpm where the Vanos system gives it both barrels, real 911-threatening turn of pace. The gearbox is a honey, too. Same basic transmission as a Cayman GTS, but the lever has been cut down by 20mm, so the shifts feel very punchy, you just jab the lever around the gate, and if you have the Sport button pressed, it does the rev matching for you. In fact that is the only thing the Sport button does. One drawback to the gearbox though - those Cayman GTS ratios are too long for the GT4. Porsche explains it away by saying that they don't want people to have to change up during overtaking opportunities, but more sprint-oriented gearing would suit the car better. Don't bother firming up the standard PASM dampers either - the Nurburgring lap time was achieved with them in normal. And what was the 'Ring time? It's 7 minutes 40 seconds. Only 8 seconds slower than a GT3. I reckon that car's PDK gearbox is probably worth several seconds a lap, and that in truth the GT4 is probably a match for its bigger brother. With more centrally located weight, the way it changes direction is astonishing. Front grip is boundless on the road, the whole car feeling locked to the surface, the suspension rigidly controlled. It's no lighter than a GTS, though, is it? No, it's the same weight, 1340kg wet. And the reason for that is that many of the new components - and there are over 500 of them - are beefier than those they replace. Look at the size of those brakes - those ceramic discs are a whopping 410mm across, the wheels are 20-inchers, the rear tyres 295-width. Bet the centre of gravity has dropped as a result. And compared to the GT3? It's swings and roundabouts. The GT3 remains the purer, more special car, its bespoke engine revving to 9,000rpm, as opposed to 7,800rpm here. Also part of what makes the GT3 so enthralling is that you have to manage that rear-engined layout, and the naturally better balanced Cayman doesn't provide that challenge. But the attention to detail that's gone into every facet of this car makes it a riveting driving experience at any speed. You can feel the love that has gone into making the GT4 the car we always suspected it could be. It's a step on from a standard Cayman, and, at £64,451 (OK, £73k with a good bit of spec on it), looks rather exceptional value for money for a car that, as far as driving experience goes, can hold its head high alongside some very serious metal indeed.
Sounds like the PSM programme is custom too then. It certainly doesn't kick back in when it finds you driving like a hooligan, so perhaps "off" really means "off"?! From Chris' video it looks like Porsche really have gone a long way with this car and I think people can and should stop banging on about wanting an RS version - because other than carbon doors and plexiglass windows, there's not a lot more Porsche could do. Can't wait for the GT4 Cup - will have to save my pennies to get one! Chris.
Harris says: We have to remember how tricky the role of the GT4 is within Porsche’s model range. It somehow needs to be the car we’ve always wanted the Cayman to be, but it simply must not tread on the GT3’s toes. I agree, and it seems as though Porsche may have hit on a winning formula for its "junior" GT car, though I'm waiting to hear how the car behaves away from the track on our own potholed A/B roads and on motorways. Jeff
It's clear fitting CUP 2's as standard it's a road car you USE on track ie drive to it. we will never know, or won't know for a while how a GT4 is with Pilot Super sports on as a daily car, ditching the Cups for a road friendly tyre. the car at the end of the day sits at 105mm high and has track day tyres on it ! as it's height adjustable and we can buy tyres, maybe making it 115mm high with Super sports would be a better road car !
long winded, moving spring collars , which will then throw out the geo so it will then have to be all re geo. 3 hours work at best. here you go I have brighten up the collar, you twist that and that raises the car, it does not make it stiffer which people think, all a spring does is support the car. but that will change the angle of the wheels so a full geo needed after. could def be the way to go for road or a summer/ winter set up along with a tyre change these are from the GT4 front
rear
Yes, looking at the suspension pics there certainly appears to be some height adjustability incorporated in the set-up [~10-20mm?]. Not something you could do on a track day but adjusting the ARBs would be feasible. I've not driven a Cup 2-shod car. Compared with something like the Super Sports, what are they like in the wet? The tread pattern looks much more dry weather oriented, although there are at least some sipes to drain away the water. Jeff PS: Nice pic of the rear helper springs. PPS: In his chat with Harris, P mentioned that the aero is also adjustable by increasing the rear wing incidence angle and removing a couple of ducts up front to maintain the downforce balance.
I have CUP 2 arriving this week for the SPyder and have Super sports on the R , I will report back once fitted. OK helper springs, helper me outer on what these do ;-) does it fully compress once the car is on the ground, or is a slighty softer spring to take up some road chatter. or is it just to support the main spring as it's very short and stop it rattling about ?
Helper springs? I'm not absolutely sure D but I think that - on cars with short suspension travel - they're designed to allow the damper piston to be maintained in the optimal position within the damper body, increasing rebound stroke and maximising piston movement . A crude self-levelling device I suppose. Jeff Just a thought: Depending upon how you look at it, the term could be taken as a misnoma. Even assuming that the helper spring is significantly stiffer than the suspension spring, with two springs in series the effective siffness of the combination is lower than that of the suspension spring. For example, if Ksusp = 50N/mm and Khelp = 500N/mm the combined stifness will be 45.5N/mm, although the stiffness effect of the helper spring is minimised the greater its value.
Steve Brookes
Moderator
The pics of the struts show that the set up is very similar to the after market suspension offered by the likes of KW and Bilstein. On my KWV3 there are helper springs and a collar to adjust ride height. KW refers to the helper as a 'pre-stressed spring'. It's there to take up the slack when a wheel becomes unloaded so that the main spring still does its work. The collars are used to set the ride height and indeed you wouldn't want to try moving them at the track without being able to do other geo adjustments. The KWV3 have adjustable damping, so in the winter I just soften them up for road only use which is pretty much the same as Porsche's PASM button for swapping between comfort and sport.
From a P-9 interview with David Burkhalter of Porsche North America about the GT4: 1. It is not a limited production car. So they don't know apriori how many they will build. 2. He does not know the current allocation numbers or cannot share them yet. 3. Future versions or second year depend on customer reception and a business case analysis. This may be US specific, but I suspect will also apply to the UK market. Apparently another point he made was that the GT4 engine is not a detuned 991S engine. The 15hp loss is due to air flow limitations (intake and exhaust) with the mid-engine configuration rather than a DME detune. The issue is intake air routing which is much shorter in the 991 and exhaust routing which crosses over in the 991 but does not in the 981. Jeff
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