Cayman GT4: Where are we up to now?

[Motorhead]

Rob, It seems that Porsche marketing have seriously underestimated demand for the GT4. Now that the car has been launched and orders are in from Geneva I would expect some movement fairly soon on UK availabilty and deliveries. Let's hope that Porsche learn their lesson and don't make the same mistake with the Spyder but with limited build slots, it's going to be a challenging juggling act meeting GTS, GT4 and Spyder demand. Jeff

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: Motorhead Rob, It seems that Porsche marketing have seriously underestimated demand for the GT4. Now that the car has been launched and orders are in from Geneva I would expect some movement fairly soon on UK availabilty and deliveries. Let's hope that Porsche learn their lesson and don't make the same mistake with the Spyder but with limited build slots, it's going to be a challenging juggling act meeting GTS, GT4 and Spyder demand. Jeff

Jeff I am not sure it's a mistake at all and even if it was short supply is far healthier mistake than oversupply that Porsche have been specialising in every since turning the 986/996 corner back in 1996 Just in the UK alone look at the difference between 65 1989 Speedsters that took 20 years to break the original price barrier, 13 1993 Speedsters made the journey far less torturous financially speaking [] and circa 19 2011 Speedsters have been good news from the get go. Less definitely equals more for the lucky few and does the brands image a power of good IMO

 

[MrDemon]

My OPC has now said, NO LOI, invite only from now on. I see a few other OPC's on PH posts have also said, NO Loi any more.

 

[Motorhead]

What you say may well be true Rob but Porsche exists to sell cars* not to make a profit for an insignificantly small number of customers. Whether or not the latter improves the brand's image is, perhaps, questionable but I think that it is important for Porsche to have halo models. *If proof's needed, a year ago Porsche CEO Matthias Mueller said "the high-end automaker will exceed 200,000 in annual deliveries in 2015, three years earlier than first targeted, on demand for the Macan compact sport-utility vehicle going on sale later this year". More relevant to us is that Porsche’s deliveries rose 15 percent in 2013 as demand for the Boxster and Cayman models more than doubled. Jeff

 

[MrDemon]

wait till the GT4 RS comes out lol

 

[flat6]

Cayman and Boxster sales numbers were typically the lowest of the family, so much so that Porsche would combine them and rarely release individual Cayman and Boxster numbers. Despite being far more affordable than the 911, that cannot be right for any business. Glad to hear that Cayman and Boxster sales have risen significantly. That is probably down to the 981 being much more of an all-rounder in that sector than the 987, such as the interior and ride giving it much wider appeal whilst losing none of its ability. The sales figures of the 987 were not difficult to beat. At one point Cayman sales were so low that Porsche could have scrapped the model and not bat an eyelid[]. Glad they stuck with it and turning it into one of the best cars they make. I hope they eventually follow up with a Cayman that has the GT4 engine but has more road usability (after all, the GT4 engine is the bit that the motorsport department didn't do any work on, so it's not an engine exclusive to the motorsport models). They kind of did the same thing when they dropped the Cayman R engine tune onto the Cayman S Black Edition. I don't see why only a few hundred people should be able to get their hands on a 380HP Cayman. Yes the GT4 track-meister should be a limited edition car as it is a halo model, but a Cayman 3.8 should be available as a standard model without considering that a risk of shaking the whole company to the core. Maybe they'll give it 380HP in a standard model when the 4 pot turbo engine comes along... [but then your average driver would probably be quicker in that with PDK and X.73 than in a GT4[:-] but the GT4 RS will be out by then and retain top spot, so all will be fine[]. Also a 991S can get around a track almost as quick as a 997.1 GT3, it's just progress, so nothing new there - the GT4 won't stay top for ever] They could call it the GTS 3.8 or GTS Turbo [] Not taking anything away from the GT4, just saying, as a Cayman fan, looking forward to more of these high performance Cayman models.

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

I agree with your comment flat 6 about why only a few people should be able to get their hands on a GT4 why should it be the chosen few. Especially when i know there are loads of people wanting them. Why turn buisness down if theres a profit to be made and keep customers happy rather than the loss of a customer. They might make a 3rd and 4th batch in the future not that i know that [] The handerling of the allocation for the GT4 stinks if honest. Cheers Cliff

 

[MrDemon]

Just a learning curve for Porsche and OPC. Most have said loi now out the window, hoping owning a new GT4 will get me an invite to the RS. We all know they won't make more than 60 odd for UK.

 

[flat6]

Hi Cliff Just to clarify, i'm saying a Cayman with a 3.8 or 380HP needn't be exclusive. I accept the GT4 in particular being exclusive as it is a halo model. It exists for brand PR, in small enough numbers to put the Cayman in the spotlight but done in such away as to say "OK, an extreme Cayman can outshine a 911 but our regular Caymans are still in their rightful place in the pecking order". There won't be enough GT4s around for anyone to consider it as an alternative to a Carrera S because you can't get one. That would never do. Caymans darting around public roads for £20K less than a Carrera S. No way. When the Carrera S moves up to 430hp we might get a regular Cayman at around 380hp. I do understand their philophy though and if both the Cayman and 911 had their engines in the rear or in the middle, they would just be seen and big brother and little brother at different price points and all would be well. But because one is the brand i.e. rear-engined icon with an iconic roofline and front wings and the other a car bourne out of the brand (as is every current Porsche a bourne out of the 911 brand) they will understandably preserve the brand at all costs. Seems to be working for them. Even this radical concept is instantly recognisable as 911... And that is why you will not get many GT4s. The brand is everything... The brand is 911...

 

[MrDemon]

991 is becoming a pure GT car and Cayman the pure sports car. Engine needs to be mid engine to win any thing, 911's are not winning any more. The new super car will be mid engine, the 918 is mid engine, the Cayman is mid engine. The 911 is a fat rear engine outdated model now and now places no where in GT3 races. yes you get people say it punches above it's weight, but no big wins of late. If the RS Cayman is 90k which it will be, £100k with options that will be king and outlap GT3’s. Fit the 911 with turbos and keep the 4 seats, makes a nice tourer GT. Is there life in a GT3 once the £200k mid engine super car arrives ? ESP 2nd hand £180k GT3’s Porsche sports car future is mid engine. The 913 cannot come soon enough, the above concept looks nasty. we want a new race winning mid engine super car

 

[flat6]

As I said years ago, November 2012 to be precise. A tongue-in-cheek-come-hypothesis about the next Spyder as a talking point, but you'll see I talked about the Cayman going racing and the 911 becoming more focused on being a grand tourer. Rolling forward to the present day I would change my thoughts away from the Cayman going racing. I think it was about a year ago I shared my thoughts that the mid-engined Porsche 960 rival for the Ferrari 488 will go racing. It will sit above the 911, out-shine it every way but will have a price tag to match. I said yes the future for Porsche is mid-engined but they are a business and it makes no sense to let a £60k car usurp the 911 when they can do that with a £200K car. This allows them to bring in a new model at an even higher price point, keep the 911 where it is (central to the brand as a £75k to £140k practical performance car) and still have the Boxster / Cayman at the other end. I was wrong about the 911 Spyder (although that was more the hoax part whilst I do believe they will turn to mid-engined for racing) so I could be wrong again. Who knows what the 960 will be. A scaled down 918 with the hybrid power-train removed, leaving a ~600hp V8 is as good a guess as any.

ORIGINAL: flat6 RE: Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPC's! - 1/11/2012 23:23:58 The next Spyder will be on the 911 platform... The plans for the models are as follows. The 991 GT3 will be the last 911 race car. The 2nd generation of the next Cayman i.e. the 982, will be developed to blend in some of the superior traction of the 911 with the mid-engined handling of the 982 platform to make the Cayman the prime option for racing. The 911 will continue to become more of a GT car, continuing to dominate the spaces in which Aston Martin's, Maserati's, Mercedes AMG's, Corvettes, Jaguars and Audi R8 operate. The new 960 mid-engined supercar that will sit above the 911 and below the 918, will take on the mid-engined supercars from Ferrari and Lamborghini. The 991 based Spyder will be introduced when the 991 GT3 retires to make way for the 982 race car. This is some years away. The 911 Spyder will use weight saving techiques from the last of the 991 generation GT3. Being a Spyder, it will be strictly a 2 seater and it will have a manual, detachable roof like the 987 Spyder. It will be a limited production model, expected to appeal to those who want a near GT3 type driving experience combined with open air fun. There will not be another Boxster Spyder as the Boxster will be focussed on a 'every day roadster' theme rather than exploring any niches, as that will be more successfully achieved through the 911. Now, there's no factual evidence behind this story. Motoring journalists are always stringing together a number of their best guesses into what they believe is a coherent hypothesis. Question is, do you think this is a coherent and plausible hypothesis?

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

The brands roots are 911 - the brand is becoming predominantly SUV in terms of sales and placement. This will continue to be so year on year.

ORIGINAL: flat6 The brand is 911...

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: Chris_in_the_UK The brands roots are 911 - the brand is becoming predominantly SUV in terms of sales and placement. This will continue to be so year on year.

ORIGINAL: flat6 The brand is 911...

True. They want to retain the 'sports cars' manufacturer image thoughout though, calling the whole range 'sports cars'. Doesn't quite work for me but I guess each is probably sportiest in its class. From the Macan page: http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/macan/macan/ "The new Macan – built for an intensive life in which the thirst for experience and thrills and spills are ever-present, and in which new challenges are a permanent driving force. Built for a life that refuses to be hemmed in by conventions and feels all the more authentic for it. Direct and intimate. A Sports Car that gives us what we're looking for: that feeling of being alive. The new Macan. Life, intensified." They did used to try to inject 911 DNA into each model, which is why the first Cayenne probably wasn't the prettiest, with a 911 type face on an SUV and the Panamera, whilst a good looker imho, has an unorthodox shape. But the look of the 987 Cayman is pretty awesome because of it imho. The side and frontal shapes of the 987 Cayman are a classic Porsche silohette. The view out of the front of a Cayman looking down the bonnet from the drivers seat is classic Porsche imho.

My views of Porsche haven't changed since I got my first one. Big fan. I only swapped out the Cayman because I found the Spyder irresistible and it happened to have the same compact dimensions and dynamics that I liked. I remember having a 997 GTS for a week and being worried how it would feel getting back in the 'old' Cayman. The Cayman dynamics I instantly preferred. Just that absence of weight bias transfer. I only swapped out the Spyder because I wanted to scratch that itch of higher Porsche performance levels which Porsche just would not offer in the 987 that I was happy with (and to see what a 911 was like to live with). Don't know if it's the AWD or the weight (the weight being effortlessly overcome by the power to weight ratio so isn’t a problem) but the 'old' turbo feels as planted as the Cayman did, in a way the GTS did not. So, I am happy, but I am a big Cayman fan. The reality of Porsche's business strategy is abundantly clear to me though and it's just a case of getting tuned into it and picking what are the best bits for yourself. Just hope they keep putting more performance in the Cayman like they're doing with the GT4, if they dare...

 

[flat6]

Back to GT4 []

 

[Motorhead]

Some interesting comments in your past few posts 6 and good to see that we're back on track with the GT4. One area which interests me is where Cayman engines are going. It seems as though the lower powered Boxster is going to have the [2.0L 290hp?] flat-4 turbo engine later this year but will the Cayman get this engine at the same time? With the exception of the GT cars, Porsche are set on rolling out turbo engines across the sportscar ranges but will the N/A flat-6 engine survive in the 981 cars until the next generation arrives or will the new turbo engines appear before then? And will the Cayman get both 4 and 6-cylinder turbo engines, both of which feature the new engine architecture used in the 991.2 [including the GT3 RS]? It does seem odd that the N/A GT4 has been introduced at a time when Porsche are switching to turbo engines, which does make me wonder how long the car will be produced in its current form. Like the 991 GT3 it's using the "old" DFI engine architecture and Porsche will not want to be producing this engine alongside the new engine for too long. I'm sure that the GT3 will soon get a version of the GT3 RS engine but I think it's highly unlikely that this engine will feature in the GT4. So, could the GT4 get a N/A version of the rumoured 3.8L turbo engine to be used in the 991.2 S...or perhaps a detuned version of that engine? I suppose the logical thing would be to let the current N/A flat-6 engine soldier on in the 981-series cars for another 4-years or so until the 982 arrives. Too many questions.....and no answers.! Jeff

 

[daro911]

Jeff if the brand new flat 4 turbos produce the same or more power than the older flat 6's I can't see why Porsche would bother offering both versions and as they strive for ever lower CO2's and greater mpg's running the old technology would be very strange way forward IMO of course [] Offering 981/982's with flat 4's only helps separate the 991/992's with their flat 6's irrespective of how close they may get mph wise[&o]

 

[ralphmusic]

Those wanting one might respond to @PorscheRetail about supplying cars not asking for more followers... See https://twitter.com/porscheretail/status/578146194557403136

 

[ralphmusic]

How do they get on with replacement engines which I guess are/should be available for some years after related new-build cars have ceased production?

 

[Motorhead]

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic How do they get on with replacement engines which I guess are/should be available for some years after related new-build cars have ceased production?

Presumably the same way they've done with the 9x6 and 9x7.1 engines Ralph. Like any manufacturer, they must have a reasonably large stock of engines; the number being dependent upon how durable they believe the engines to be.

ORIGINAL: daro911 Jeff if the brand new flat 4 turbos produce the same or more power than the older flat 6's I can't see why Porsche would bother offering both versions and as they strive for ever lower CO2's and greater mpg's running the old technology would be very strange way forward IMO of course [] Offering 981/982's with flat 4's only helps separate the 991/992's with their flat 6's irrespective of how close they may get mph wise[&o]

I couldn't agree more Rob but I wonder if Porsche would want to produce the flat-4 turbo in two capacities when they could probably use the 991/992's flat-6 turbo engine in the 981/982? Plus, in the short term they could be sensitive to percieved customer resistance to a turbo-4 Porsche sportscar, although I accept that - with the exception of enthusiasts - most buyers probably couldn't care less what's under the engine cover. Jeff

 

[spyderwhite]

My take on it all cars will be turbo only the GT cars remain na hence maybe gt4.2 in the future! Also the 981.2 will be base fl4 turbo and S model fl6 turbo shared with base 991.2 ie 2.7 fl6 turbo