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Engine build progress

Oh sorry - I suppose associating "never stay still" and "trying to achieve" triggered odd ideas. Well, the new direction is looking for as much power as possible, which involves replacing the standard intake manifold with one designed for higher power at higher rpm, coupled with an aggressive camshaft. This relatively new GTX30 turbo is supposed to deliver about the same flow as the "older" GT35 but with the size of a GT30, suggesting best of both world in terms of compressor flow and spool. Of course I expect mid range to be altered with a different intake, but the high flow of the turbo should work better up top. I know this is going to be a trade-off with the car's ability to be enjoyable on the road, as the SPS turbo was just perfect for that and the occasional Autobahn excursion, but by now I feel I have gone over the deep end with this car and making it even faster at the cost of making it even bit more of a handful is a compromise I am now happy to live with. Honestly, a good 2.5 engine lightly modified is good enough for decent road use. As you know, building a 3.0+ turbo engine will ultmately lead to some beast. What Porsche did with the 968TS was IMO a joke in terms of engine efficiency, they pretty much locked the engine's ability to make power and breathe as well as any given 3.0 engine should, being Porsche or else. I can't be bothered having an easy to drive 951 anymore, my S2 will always be better for road use IMO [:)]
 
I think the GTX30 should give the best of both worlds hence it is a valuable upgrade to the SPS turbo which will always be held back by the KKK hotside. I am interested to know what intake you are going for as most of the aftermarket intakes have little in the way of proven power figures to show they actually work. Camshafts are also quite subjective on turbo cars, I have yet to find out if the JM cam I fitted to my engine a while back has given me any benefit. However as always Thom we follow your research and development projects with interest and I look forward to getting my hands on my new (used) turbo and fitting it once I am feeling a little better. I am also exited to see how you get on with the GTX30 with the .82 hotside as that is the exact turbo I would like to fit onto my car if I was not so keen to get mine back on the road. Its just a step too far right now and hence why your old turbo is the perfect solution for me!
 
Cheers Nick [:)] My friend over here with the 444bhp 3.0 8V engine I mentioned earlier runs a Lindsey intake/9R cam/KKK turbo and the thrust from his car is borderline insane. Torque comes in reasonably early and it pushes honestly harder than a jet taking off. Through the course of his build he initially ran the standard intake and noticed he would not break the 380hp barrier pretty much regardless of the tune, which is what led him to try the Lindsey intake, with great results. The hp here are reliable German PS "Pferd Starke", no funny figures as often mentioned on RL. From there on I'm tempted to think the standard intake works well on a 2.5 engine because this is what it was designed to work with. It is not going to allow a 3.0 to breath up top as much as it could. Our friends over on RL are obsessed with low end torque since they are baby-fed with V8 engines, so it looks like moving the power band up top will never be met with much enthusiasm, especially when most folks are running 2.5 engines, while the remaining ones don't seem to talk much (or maybe I missed them). I posted a picture of my next intake earlier in the thread, but the Lindsey sounds like a good off-the-shelf choice for a 3.0 engine - a well-sized plenum with short runners. With a JME cam I can only see huge gains... Of course I could be wrong, but I am still happy to take the time and spend money to test new components on my engine [:)]
 
Well that makes sense, I have always stayed away from an aftermarket intake as I have yet to see anyone actually prove that one works. Albeit all the time wondering if the standard intake is right for a 3.0 but others have said it will outflow the head hence why change the intake. It seems your friend has the before and after results (at least on his engine) to prove this intake works well. I already have the JME cam so will be watching your progress closely. My aim for my engine was always a healthy 400hp so it will be interesting to see what I get with your turbo and the standard intake. Depending on what results you get I may well take the plunge and follow this route. Are you also increasing the size of the throttle body?
 
ORIGINAL: TTM Cheers Nick [:)] Of course I could be wrong, but I am still happy to take the time and spend money to test new components on my engine [:)]
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I think you are correct TTM, the Lindsey intake is reported to give good results and I for one will be watching with interest to see how you get on with it. Pete
 
Yes, I intend to fit a 65mm throttle body (56mm for the standard one), as 65mm is as large as I can go without grinding the carbon plenum of the intake. Corleone made 500 hp on his old 2.5 with the same intake and the standard throttle body though, so if the new throttle body requires too much fiddling to fit I will probably keep on with the standard throttle body.
 
Thom, you lost me on the carbon plenum as I thought this intake was made entirely from Aluminium unless I am missing something? Also having just read the updated page on the LR website on the intake manifold they say there is no need to increase the size of the throttle body, which is also a surprise to me but I guess they have done their own testing....? I was all set to install a larger one on mine but this is another mod I have never seen with proven before and after improvement. Looking at the LR manifold if you were to put a larger TB you would have to make a new intermediate pipe as well.
 
Regardless of which throttle body you use I do believe it's advisable to get a new TB seal kit as most will be perished by now and I've read that new seals make a big difference, not that I've got around to doing it myself....yet Pete
 
Nick, I won't be usng a Lindsey intake, but one made in Sweden many years ago, with a carbon plenum. I just meant that the Lindsey intake may probably remain a good off-the-shelf option for engines like ours. Very true Pete, but the TB I got for my build came off an '86 with 6k miles and when I got the engine pressure-tested with a smoke machine it held several bars without leaking [:)] Will check the larger TB when I get it anyway.
 
Very interesting to read all this Thom. There has been so much conjecture surrounding the LR intake with very little supporting evidence, in fact there has been more negative 'feedback' about it...but some of this may be as you say, due to a loss of torque in the lower rpms. I have heard of people putting it on a flow bench and it getting worse results than the stock intake, so it's very difficult to make the decision which way to go in this regard. I too am facing a similar predicament with a 65mm t/b on an extruded honed stock intake that had some runners welded inside to help even out the flow. From what I was told by the engine builder this may have contributed to the odd egt reads he was getting at idle and low throttle openings. Also find it interesting to read that you're going for a more full on power build. This seems to be a change in direction for you. Glad to hear anyone wanting to push the boundaries of course and shall be following your progress as ever.
 
Patrick, where did you hear about poor flow on the LR intake? I'd be interested to read this if you have a link to a RL thread or something like that.
 
Hmm, I'd struggle to find an exact link Thom. Also it wasn't just on Rennlist although I think you could search and get some hits fairly quickly. Heard it from a few vendors/builders too. I'm 'pretty' sure that the guy that built my motor flowed it also. I don't have any quantifiable figures to support this...well not to hand. I'd have to have a dig around a lot of old files. To be honest, I'd love to be proved wrong as it would suit me to buy something off the shelf. We will use what I have for now, but it will be interesting to see what they find when I finally get the motor installed after repairing the car. Especially all the rogue EGTs that were reported...for more than 1 reason too. [:mad:] Oh, I went back 2 years in this thread and couldn't see any pic of a non stock intake Thom. I've seen a carbon one in some of your pics elsewhere. Can you give us a bit more info on that one or are you waiting for some conclusions?
 
You lazy man! Btw, do you ever sleep? [:D] Here you go : link This flowed 294/294/294/289 cfm against 258/258/248/253 cfm for a standard turbo intake on a local flow bench (both @28" of liquid, for what it's worth). Though we all open up the runners on a standard intake so that they can match more or less well the larger intake ports of the 2.7 head, each runner was still designed to work with a 45mm large intake tract, which is the size of the 951 intake valve, while the 2.7 head uses 48mm intake valves. Runner diameter on this CF intake happens to be 48mm as well.
 
Ok...I didn't think it would be that far back/that long ago in this thread. 2008!! So have you had that intake since then? Don't suppose there's any more floating around?? Did you flow your head at the same time? Be interesting to know what they flow.
 
Thom, my mistake I thought you were talking about the Lindsey intake for your car, I (like Patrick) had forgotten about the carbon intake you had and the pic helped to jog my dodgy memory cells! Looking forward to the results of the new turbo and new intake. Enjoy this time being without the burden of family life slowing you down on the time and money required for these wonderful R&D projects!
 
I believe MarkK has a Lindsay Racing inlet on his red one, which makes over 400
IMGP1474.jpg
 
Was that picture taken at the Porsche shop event Mike? can't remember which car Mark had there. Pete
 
I had the red one at that meet,I remember because I picked up a screw in a nearly new tyre (Tr888)[:mad:]
 
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