Engine build progress
- Thread starter TTM
- Start date
Pic was at Porscheshop, but I think Mark took the black one to the Liverpool dyno day. All I know about the red one is that there are lots of very shiney and very non-standard bits under the bonnet!
I'd be interested to see what results it has had on the dyno and what other mods apart from the LR intake there are? The intake has been a subject of quite a bit of discussion over the years and I am always interested to see if there is any quantifiable evidence to support the ample claims from LR. I understand that an intake of this design is going to shift the torque across to the RHS but that in itself doesn't worry me for my application. However there is no point in throwing it on and hoping for the best. Thom alludes to some testing which showed positive results. This is a good sign. As most of us are aware, there are very few options after the stock intake...except some highly priced c/f with itb's that are out of most people's reach. There also seems to be a question mark of itb's on a turbo car. Each question lays an egg...[&:]
TTM
Active member
Flipo in Belgium with his 968 turbo RS replica first made 335 hp / 500 N.m, then 375 hp / 466 Nm with the LR intake and a supposedly different camshaft, both at 1 bar of boost, commenting "Indeed torque numbers are down but now it holds that torque for much longer". As for the new turbo I took the car for a drive yesterday and was stunned to notice that the mid range shove and overall behaviour is pretty much the same as with the SPS turbo - under the same loads I'm seeing the same AFR numbers as before, without having even touched the fuel map! Maybe it spools only very slightly better as I see the boost curve slightly overshooting, but that's about it. That is a relief as I was slightly concerned with loosing the quick spooling and wide torque delivery of the SPS turbo. I suppose choosing the 0.82 A/R turbine housing over the larger 1.06 one was the right move.
MarkK
Active member
I know its all a bit long ago now,but i seem to remember on the day my red car had traction problems on the old WRC Dyno,on the original well respected dyno it was mapped on it made better numbers. It has a lovely nature,very bassy sounding and you can feel it breaths differently to a more standard car....,it feels very happy on long runs aswell.The speedo certainly whips around at a silly rate,the whole car is a lovely package and it handles and stops aswell,i have thought about getting rid of one turbo at times but its like choosing between children. Andrew S and the chaps at Promax did a great job on the car and touch wood it has been a reliable beasty that i keep on a trickle charger and it fires up perfectly every time.It has been back to them for checkups and always comes back with a clean bill of health so far anyway. Only thing i have changed recently is swapped the wheels to glossy black and put road going Toyos on it for more road driving/wet comfort.
Diver944
Active member
I've driven MarkK's 400bhp car back to back with my old 3.2L and obviously the pickup from low revs is less because it is a 2.5 engine, but the breathing and power delivered at the top end is truly insane! [8D] Obviously there are plenty of bits on the car but I think the amount of air pushed through the LR intake by that big turbo has to be the major cause of all that power
George Elliott
New member
Paul, just on the remark about the big turbo on the 2.5, I don't understand why it would be a great advantage on the basis that the engine absorbs X cfm at Y rpm, and any additional cfm will be bled off by the waste gate. likewise the 0.82 AR housing over the 1.06 Thom mentions is way over my head. my SPS turbo is able to hold 1.2 bar to 6k rpm, and if it was a bigger unit there would be little advantage I assume?? George 944t
Diver944
Active member
Well you can't just bolt on a huge Turbo by itself and hope for long term success. It's a combination of all the other parts that allow the engine to breath better and increase the CFM. I believe Marks car runs at 1.4 bar but the size of the Turbo, intake, intercooler, exhaust etc means the air travelling through the engine is cool enough to make good power yet keep the car reliable after all these years
Regarding Cams, I did a lot of research into cams and the info out there seems to suggest that there's little point in changing the cam unless going after extreme power, say 500bhp. Having been down the lumpy cam route modifying N/A engines in the past I'm not that keen in going this route again. However if anyone has evidence of good results on a car with say 450bhp without effecting the smoothness of the engine on idle then I may look into this a little deeper. Pete
Hi Thom Yes I have heard of using the N/A cam to gain a little and I wouldn't expect this particular cam to effect the idle or Porsche wouldn't have used it in the first place. I guess I'd need someone who's tried say a Vitesse cam, who has before and after results on a 2.5l. Mind you that's given me an idea, I could ask John at Vitesse ( if I haven't already as I really can not remember) to see if he has any graphs, I haven't gone this route due to the info that's on the web already in this field, although my mind is always open. Pete
I have the 9R cam - idle is fine but then it's only a very mild difference to the standard turbo cam in lift and duration/overlap. No back to back dynos but it does seem to breathe a little better at the top end. Not worth changing just as a job on it's own, but maybe a "while you are in there" one.
AndrewS
Member
MarkK's car was built in 2006 and was dyno tested at 442 bhp on the Bosch dyno at Chip Wizards (where we had no traction issues). Torque was recorded much higher than at WRC which is where we experienced slip on the rollers (but it still made over 402 bhp there also). I'll try and locate the dyno charts on my archive server. Car is still original to the 2006 build; hence has proven to be reliable. Spec is: #10 size turbine, Super 70 LR turbo Custom built and flowed pipework from Turbo to exhaust (ProMAX) FabSpeed exhaust (larger diameter than original) with mods (ProMAX) Custom MAP system (Wayne Schofield), uses original Bosch DME (Remapped EPROM - tuning took over 8 hours) Standard factory ignition system LR Intake manifold LR Intercooler pipes Custom cold air intake system (ProMAX) Big injectors (65lb/hr) Stage 2 Intercooler DPW 1.5 bar boost (21 PSI) with EBC Engine standard 2.5, standard 100mm bores Stage 2 LR cylinder head Standard camshaft, exhaust manifold All engine internals original factory standard The only car (944 Turbo) that came close to this (that I have driven) was the 422bhp 2.8 stroker that is owned by John Daly in EIRE Regards, Andrew
Interesting about the difference in torque figures you give Andrew, my own car was also down on TQ at WRC when compared to the run on Wayne's rollers. Both dyno's were within 1 bhp but WRC recorded 353 TQ whereas Wayne recorded 382. Mind you it's not as straight forward as that with my car as I did the WRC run with a broken plug which I wasn't aware off at the time. So would have expected the result to be higher both in BHP and TQ as the tuner ( IIRC Chris) stopped during the first run due to detecting a hesitation which was due to the broken plug. Pete
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