LIL has full boost and full revs

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Given you are really limited to 165 rear tyres, which I suspect still wont be enough to contain the immense power and torque you've got

I hope you mean 265's [] though I think you can get 285's under there with the right camber

The current conditions are exagerating things but I know what your saying. The thing is I never normally use full power on the road as these cars are just too fast anyway (even before the rebuild). Driving fast on the road really doesn't do it for me, I save it all for the track which is infinitely safer and much more fun [8D] When its dry I use full race slicks so it will be interesting to see how they cope with the increase.

I know that previously on-track the car was massively overtyred for the stock power and stock suspension and it was almost impossible to make it lose traction purely through power. I already have a spare set of wider rims if I do need to step up a size of track tyre, but at the same time I don't want to increase my cornering speeds too much as it's not a dry sumped car and that #2 bearing is just sitting there waiting to be starved of oil []

and I don't want that to happen

 

[Mark_Bennett]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Given you are really limited to 165 rear tyres,

You running on spacesavers Paul...?[]

 

[Indi9xx]

I have spent the last 20 mins trying to put into words something that would describe how LIL now performs...

I cant... I think she would even have Jeremy Clarkson speechless.

All I can think of to say is..

Drive her off boost and she is a silky smooth pussycat to make a Maybach or Bentley seem harsh... Hit the throttle above 2000 rpm, the boost builds, you get pressed firmly into your seat, and then there is a noise which comes from behind the car and sounds like you have just put your head out of a window of a 747 going 400 mph, which is the sound of the rear tyres spinning... even if your in 4th (or now 5th) gear at motorway speeds.... yet all this happens with ZERO drama... its quite spooky really and it takes your brain a little while to figure out just whats going on....

The real mind bending bit is the fuel ecconomy... My boost setting test route can often munch through a quarter tank of fuel... LIL seems to sip at fuel and convert it into massive amounts of power although the AFR seems to stay in a reasonably safe range..

Its just absolutely mad... A standard or even the average tuned 944 turbo is never going to feel the same again.

 

[Indi9xx]

I know where there is a perfectly dry road with no damp, ice or hazards, where LIL can stretch her legs.

Silverstone WRC rolling road []

It would be good to see just how much power she has even before she has a proper map... remember, she is still on the running in map, so its amazing she is so quick already!

 

[sawood12]

I think we are all looking forward to the next visit to the rollers of truth! On the basis there is a cap for those who break the 350bhp barrier we'll need to prepare some other equally silly garment of clothing to signify the exceedance of a torque barrier. I'm sure Paul would win it on Lil's first outing.

Jon - without wanting to tempt you to break the rules regarding specialists touting their wares, and maybe on a new thread so as not to hijack this one, I would be interested on your thoughts about how you would anticipate your other pipeline projects to perform e.g. your 2.5ltr and 2.7 ltr rebuilds. I realise they are all probably very different beasts but I for one would be interested in how you would think these different engines would perform and what their characteristics and potential would be. I guess the 2.5ltr rebuild would not deliver the off boost torque that Lil does although I guess it would be very much improved over the stock set up.

 

[333pg333]

Hey guys it all sound like lots of fun and it seems as if there's a sudden influx of 951/968 turbos that are proliferating our world. Great to hear how the progress of 'Lil' is going. I am looking at doing something similar but with some interesting differences. That's another aspect that I like. The fact that we can do some serious mods but they're not all identical. I will post when I'm sure of what I'm doing. Looking forward to when you conquer some of 'Lil's ' traction issues!

 

[Indi9xx]

2007 is going to be a very very interesting year.

One thing we intend on doing is bending some valves and blowing up some engines on purpose in the name of mad scientist experiments to find the limits of what can be done... Its expensive work, but has a small element of fun but produces some very valuable data.

We also have a couple of engine designs up our sleeves which it isnt even worth talking about yet, because even we do not have all the details and they may work out to be complete and utter pants.

The 3.2 engines could have been pants, it was a risk, but it so far seems to have paid off (it should have done with everything that went into getting it to work as a package)

With LIL its just a shame that just as the power is improving with everything we do, the roads are becoming more slippery and probably will not get much better for about 2 or 3 months, which is gutting...

 

[Diver944]

I got a bit bored this afternoon so went out to enjoy the empty roads (that were also bone dry up here). I've now switched to my 17" wheels that have the 255 rear tyres and traction was so much better than 245s on a greasy road - funny that []

I've now got the RPM connected in to the wideband software so I can plot my AFR through the rev range, so with the boost set to 17psi I set out to enjoy the dry roads. Cool air, plenty grip and no traffic sure do make for a good time with LIL. She is starting to get just a tiny bit uncivilised now,especially from about 3000rpm onwards when you can hear an audible whoosh from the tailpipe, I can only guess this is the wastegate opening to control boost. Full throttle in 4th gear at around 3500rpm will hear the tyres struggling a little and sure enough when I looked at my plots you can see the revs climb very quickly to 3900rpm then settle down again as grip reappears []

She maintains a very safe air fuel ratio around 12:1 while she is on boost, but once over 5000rpm it starts to richen up towards 10:1 This is a result of the manual boost controller dropping the boost towards 13psi. When I get the EBC fitted (hopefully tomorrow) I am hoping to hold a flat boost level around 16 or 17psi and this will equate to an AFR of around 12:1 to the redline. This is the level I shall get the first Dyno plots at when Weltmeister re-opens, I wonder what results that will give us [8D]

 

[333pg333]

Great stuff Paul. I, and many others are following your progress with great interest. Good to hear that you're getting a bit more traction going on too.

 

[Indi9xx]

Hopefully the boost will be restored above 5000 rpm once the ebc is fitted... if not it may come when the map is a propper one.... However, if not, it may be because the turbo is specced for torque and midrange performance with minimal lag.... if you get the boost maintained at the top end, then that is a fab outcome which I will keep my fingers crossed for!

Its great that your now geting some traction now! I bet with the improved traction she is begining to give you that g-force, sucked into the seat feeling, while still feeling silky smooth and relentles torque off boost?

So Paul... with what your experiencing so far, is LIL living up to your expectations or passing them? Is this what you were expecting and was it worth the massive wait?

 

[Diver944]

To be totally honest I'm getting frustrated with her at the moment [] It's not the cars fault or anything going wrong it's just getting the boost level set up so that I am happy it's consistent and safe and then I can start enjoying her without constantly watching the gauges.

I spent this afternoon fitting the Greddy EBC and that went well, then I have been out for about an hour tuning the box so it delivers a consistent boost level. I started off low and gradually worked my way up until it started hitting 18psi and was holding it all the way to the redline. The AFR was just a little too lean for my liking at 13:1 so I decided to drop it down to 16psi. I adjusted this quite quickly so was starting to feel happy [] but then I realised it was just starting to bleed a few psi at the top end - ARRRRG []

I've saved all the settings and will fine tune it tomorrow when I'm feeling a bit more relaxed [] However, now that I am home I have found an excellent online guide to setting the Greddy Profec Spec II courtesy of one of the RENNlisters so I really want to go out and finish the job, but it's a bit dark now and the traffic was building as I came home anyway.

Patience, patience, there is always tomorrow []

Here is a link to the very well written guide that I shall follow tomorrow:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=75594

 

[Indi9xx]

Paul... You should know that this is actually FANTASTIC news.

It shows that even though the turbo was designed for early spool up, torque and midrange, its also up to the job of producing the goods all the way to the redline, as well as down low where the emphasis was put into its design, which is a bonus we could have hoped for, but until theory was put into practice we could not have garaunteed. Especially with a restrictive std (apart from catbypass) exhaust, intake etc.

So dont be frustrated.... I think some tweaking on the EBC will see her sorted as far as boost goes.

Also check that the vac line to the fpr has not blown off at the new higher boost level... it may not be the case, but its worth checking.

Keep experimenting with boost and afr and keep the faith!

 

[TTM]

Do revs build as quickly as on the 2.5 ?
Is there a different "inertia feel" compared with the 2.5 ?

 

[DivineE]

So Paul do you have the 3 bar fuel pressure regulator fitted now? If so and it is still going leaner at the top end as it was when I was in the car? Suspicion might be that you've finally surpassed the maximum capacity of those chips? Which can only be a positive sign of how much air and fuel the engine is using J suggests maybe that its producing at least close to the figures your G-meter was reading even at relatively low boost and with standard intake! []

Ben

P.S. Further to the above comment about how it revs, strictly as a passenger I would say it revved very much the same as a standard car but with the added torque it seemed to make the gear ratio's feel a lot shorter (trick of the mind).

 

[Diver944]

I tried the 3 Bar FPR Ben but it made it too rich during idle and off boost driving (these chips were written for 2.5 BAR) so I took it off not wanting to risk borewash and damage to my lovely new engine. I think we are close to the limits of these chips now, I still need a little bit of fine tuning to the EBC to hold 16psi all the way to the redline and then we should have a flattish AFR level of 12:1 from the moment we go on boost.

Throttle reponse is very very direct,and the revs rise quicker than my standard S2, this can only be because of the lightweight pistons, rods etc. Simon did tell me how many grams lighter they were but I can't remember the figures. It is not like a 944 Turbo at all, all the downsides of lag, sluggishness in wrong gear etc seem to have totally disappeared - which I love. More importantly my wife loves it too and she is happy to drive the Turbo now, even though it has significantly more power, she used to hate it before

 

[Big Dave]

Hi Paul.
Just a quicky..
Does you car have a uprated intercooler fitted , OR is it running the standard one from the factory.??

 

[Diver944]

No it has the 9xx uprated one from Jon. I don't plan running high boost so it may be a bit of overkill but it was one of those 'whilst everything is out and its easy to do' situations, plus any extra insurance to protect the engine is good in my eyes.

For the same reason I have an all alloy radiator with a greater capacity to keep things cool.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Hey guys it all sound like lots of fun and it seems as if there's a sudden influx of 951/968 turbos that are proliferating our world. Great to hear how the progress of 'Lil' is going. I am looking at doing something similar but with some interesting differences. That's another aspect that I like. The fact that we can do some serious mods but they're not all identical. I will post when I'm sure of what I'm doing. Looking forward to when you conquer some of 'Lil's ' traction issues!

What are those Racers Edge Arms like? I intend getting a set of those or Fabs for mine.

Cheers
Tom

 

[Diver944]

The date has been set for LILs first visit to the Rollers of Truth []

Chris has also agreed to set up my Greddy Profec EBC beforehand so that it delivers a flat 16psi which we believe to be the safe limit with the current fueling setup.

Watch this space on Thursday evening for the numbers (hopefully they will involve a 3 at the front)

 

[nick_968]

If they dont have a 3 at the front.....I will eat my hat. Good luck, hope you can keep the heat levels reasonable while you map it.