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LIL has full boost and full revs

Erm.... Whats going to happen to the league table?

Is LIL going to be allowed on the current league table?

There isnt exactly enough engines out there with more than 2.5 capacity, to warrant another league table just for big bore engines... and then, would it be fair for a 2.8 to be competing on the big bore table versus 3.2's, when a 2.8 is closer to a 2.5 than a 3.2...:rolleyes:

Personally I think for now that all 944 turbo's should be on the same table... But its Rick's call as owner of the table and someone I think we all trust as objective and with final say. :)


 
Whatever it gets... remember....

1. Its running on a running in map, in NO way optimised or set up for 3.2 which could be worth anything up to 25% off its performance... remember this car is running a map setup for 2.5 modified turbos.

2. It will be running low boost... Very low boost compared with what it can run... As a rule of thumb, if a turbo charger and intercooler is working within its efficiency band on a 944 turbo, 1psi of boost is worth 25 bhp.. on a 3.2 this may be even more than that.

3. Its running through a standard airflow meter, standard intake system and standard exhaust!... In fact, even a standard Porsche air filter!

Apart from that... hopefully at this early stage it certainly will not have a 2 at the start of the peak figures! lol... if it has, I will probably hang myself.... In fact, I think Paul will probably help me!

High 3's will be cool.... anything else is just the icing on the cake at this point in its development.
 
I see the league table as more of a way to gauge what mods are most effective rather than a willy waving opportunity, and I imagine Rick does also. On that basis all 944s should be in one pot with their mods declared and the viewer can see with a little effort the most powerful 2.5 if that's what interests them. Engine capacity is only one way to cut the pie and if it comes pre-cut that way then people lose the opportunity to cut it to show best performance for cost or for mileage etc.
 
I think that's a fair point Fen. These sort of tables can serve as a reference for everyone and over time you could get a sliding scale of what mod's provide what returns. You guys are lucky that you have access to such a good facility as the dyno you all use which by the sounds of it also places the least amount of stress on the car which is my concern with Dyno's. I will try and post once I've done my mods even though it won't be on the Welt, at least it won't be on one of those favourable U.S.A. models either. lol
 
ORIGINAL: DivineE

2 days to go...
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I am currently draining the nasty thick Mobil1 15w50 and will refill the sump entirely with super slippy Slick51 (it's exactly 1 better) :ROFLMAO:
 
ORIGINAL: Indi9xx

Whatever it gets... remember....

1. Its running on a running in map, in NO way optimised or set up for 3.2 which could be worth anything up to 25% off its performance... remember this car is running a map setup for 2.5 modified turbos.

2. It will be running low boost... Very low boost compared with what it can run... As a rule of thumb, if a turbo charger and intercooler is working within its efficiency band on a 944 turbo, 1psi of boost is worth 25 bhp.. on a 3.2 this may be even more than that.

3. Its running through a standard airflow meter, standard intake system and standard exhaust!... In fact, even a standard Porsche air filter!

Apart from that... hopefully at this early stage it certainly will not have a 2 at the start of the peak figures! lol... if it has, I will probably hang myself.... In fact, I think Paul will probably help me!

High 3's will be cool.... anything else is just the icing on the cake at this point in its development.
Click to expand...

Damn, you are starting to sound like someone else Jon [;)]

To some extent the figures don't matter to me because it isn't a 2.5. While I will applaud you for what ever results you might get it doesn't relate to what I am doing at the moment.

Granted when other mods take place, and we see what difference those mods make, that becomes interesting - but currently we have no real bench marks.

It would be nice to think Paul may have "the most powerful 944 ever built", or something similar. I trust a web cam will be rigged for the test [;)]
 
I have some figures [:)]

Just give me a few minutes to scan them in and you can see how LIL got on at Weltmeister today [:)]
 
lol. Simon, Jon, Nick and me all sitting here now on the edge of our seats like some world changing news story is on TV :ROFLMAO: ...tick...tick...tick!
 
Well I got to Weltmeister at 3:30 and after a slight delay whilst Chris cleared a Mistubishi Evo out of the way (it also had a Garret ball bearing Turbo) they reversed LIL onto the Rollers of Truth.

Chris spent quite a while adjusting my Greddy boost controller after I explained I wanted as close to a constant 16psi as possible (as long as it kept everything safe) and maybe dropping down to 15psi if the AFR got a bit lean.
Eventually he had it set at just over 16psi but it was dropping down to 14psi by the redline, not what I wanted but it was the best possible. He then did a few power runs which yielded the following best result

Dyno348.jpg


348bhp and an amazing 450 ftlb of torque [8D] I was a bit gobsmacked at this point considering we are still on the AFM, standard exhaust, standard fuel pressure and the chips are not designed for what LIL has under the bonnet.

However, Chris had detectced a little bit of detonation on one of the runs so decided to err on the side of caution and has turned the boost down to 15.5psi, which yieded the following chart

Dyno337.jpg


337bhp and 430 ftlb of torque, which is still an an amazing figure that I am more than happy with especially as Chris believes this to be very safe. He believes the cause of the detonation is the ignition as the AFR was still nice and safe between 12:1 and 11:1

Next step will be a proper live remap with attention to fuelling and the ignition to really get the best out of the car in the current guise - but at 18psi [8D]

 
[:-][:-][:-] JESUS!!!! My eyes just literally popped out of my head!!!!! CONGRATULATION Paul, Jon and Simon thats an AWESOME amount of power! I simply can't believe what I'm reading!

Ben
 
Well done to all the guys at Jon Mitchells Garage. A great result for you all. With the amount of torque you are making its easy to say you have a 400 hp car once you get rid of all the bits that are strangling the top end. The torque is there and you are peaking at 3500 rpm, all you need to to is hold it flat for a couple thousand revs and you will be more or less at the 400 level. Paul, get on the case and sort some bigger rims mate cos your gonna need them. The live remap will also help but in the end you need to ditch all the baggage.
 
Well done Paul!

I tend to find (on a tuned 2.5 turbo) that 1 psi is worth about 20 to 25 bhp and about the same amount in torque if the boost difference is bellow 5000 rpm, so even without the remap, you have about 60 to 75 bhp at least to come....

I have no idea how much power a proper remap will release, but I think it has to be quite a nice leap on its own.

I also think that the the air flow meter, has got to be robbing quite a large amount of top end power. Let alone the intake manifold and exhaust system.... not to even mention the standard air filter, air filter box and snorkel..

It makes you think... the problem with LIL may turn out not to be how to make more power, but how to actually convert it into forward motion without even more wheel spin! What a crazy problem to be contemplating?!?!?!? [:D]
 
Congratulations all.

I was there with Paul and have more detailed graphs which will be uploaded in the next couple of days when Jon gets me more information for the table data.

This will be the first (of many) updates to the 944 UK league

LIL certainly has a most impressive turn of torque already. Onwards and upwards !!
 
Nice one Paul[:D]!!Just got in,was wondering all day how it went,i think someone was giving good advice about traction,bigger footprint might be handy with all that grunt[:D][:D]!!Congrats all round!
 
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