Mint 944 Turbo value?
- Thread starter piperboxster
- Start date
sawood12
New member
Yes, I agree, welcome back Fen! How's the 944 scene down under? When I first read that the 968 was supposed to be 80% new I nearly spat my mouthfull of tea out for laughing. The problem with statistics is that 99.9% of them are made up on the spot! Even if it is true by some strange measure only about 5% of that 80% of difference will actually make any difference whatsoever other than cosmetic over an S2. Anyway I think the tide is turning. When I was chatting to the chap in the bodyshop I took my car to recently for a bit of a touch up in a few areas he commented that he's seen more 944's in the past 6 months than he'd seen for a long time and people are spending not insignificant sums of money on them, so it might be the tide is turnig and the 944 might start to be elevated to the classic Porsche status that it deserves rather than considered as a poor relation to the 968. I'd also advocate that low mileage should put you off because the car has spent most of its time in a garage unused. These cars don't respond well to not being driven regularly, and 968's will be the same, and a well looked after high miler will be a better drive and give the owner less trouble.
I'm sure I don't know what you mean, Ed [ORIGINAL: edh Good to have you back Fen []
] I have seen a couple of 944s down here - literally - and I couldn't say what the scene is like, but I suspect that there isn't really one. I've probably seen a similar number of 911's, plus a few of those water cooled things that have carried the badge for the last 11 years or so. Prices here are comparable to the UK for NA cars, but Turbos (911 primarily) seem to command a premium - and earnings are less here which makes them all relatively more expensive. They should be better quality though as there is no road salt here. As I posted on another thread mine is still in Devon and most of the way through having an ex-Porsche race series engine fitted, beyond that I don't know what to do with it as it isn't worth much (compared to what I've spent on it - think 15%-20%, maybe) but I don't know if I can be bothered to ship it over here.
DavidL
Active member
I have had a number of conversations with Darren about this car. As I understand it, it was a customer's car which RPM looked after. Said customer had gradually modified it along preferred lines, KW3s, Tial, full respray etc and then organised a Px with them for something else. I was due to look at this not long after Christmas when Darren rang and said he wasn't happy with it and not to make the journey yet. It started as burning a bit of oil, then a broken ring then a scored bore then a new engine! Which is where we are now. New (81K) engine fitted checked and run in. I believe it is still stock power except for whatever the DPW would do - possibly nothing for power output but plenty for power delivery. I imagine it would come with a warantee too so really if this is the sort of car you want then there is little other choice. It does not seem to be priced at a premium to other "mint" examples and these guys have a reputation to upkeep so won't advertise a car as they have if to a cross section of enthusiasts (us!) it isn't.
DavidL
Active member
Interesting as I have never really understood this either. I have had a number of conversations with fellow owners about how they spent ages looking for a low mileage car - er why exactly? Even low mileages are 80K plus so things need changing - clutches, belts etc. After that it is just a new cycle until the new part wears and needs replacing. I can understand on a car less than 3 years old but not on one approaching 25! Do people really prefer a 100K example to a 150K one or do they buy on what they see? Damn I'm turning into Henry Firman!
Let's be clear; I really don't give a fig if you waste your money buying an average 968 when you'd be far better off with a really nice 944T. Even so I gave up my own time to give you the benefit of some of my experience (gained over 14 years, 8 Porsches, innumerable events, personal friendship with most of the people on here who answer rather than ask the questions etc. etc.), which you immediately dismissed and further tried to backtrack on the clear meaning of something you'd previously posted. You basically admit you don't know the difference between a 968 and an S2 (there are a number, I could list them but I won't waste my time except to say that they don't equal 80% of the car), and with that level of inexperience you are in grave danger of buying something that is not ideal for you. You'll stand a far better chance of not making a big, expensive mistake if you try not to alienate people who can give you unbiased advice. Worse you are even asking for that advice - in someone else's thread - then coming over with an attitude when you don't like it for whatever reason. Way to go new boy - you won't have to stop asking for advice because the people who can offer it will stop giving it to you soon enough if you carry on.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
You have been less than polite on both Tipec and Pistonheads, as you know. If you start having a go at people on a forum, then think you can move to another forum, you might find that the 944 community tend to be a friendly bunch who don't take kindly to people who aren't open to advice. [8|] Your first post on this forum, after your problems on Tipec, was:ORIGINAL: paulyYou'll have to remind me which forums and how I've wound people up, back to the cars though it's hardly a direct comparison comparing a modified car with a standard one is it ?.ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty To be fair, you've tried hard to get those snotty comments by winding some well-respected long-time members of various forums up! Your first decision needs to be what car you want. The 968 is a facelifeted 944 S2 with a few extra horses and some extra potential costs. A properly-sorted 944T is nothing like a 968. Consider the 968T, one was up for £50k recently, or the S/C 968 conversions, nice ones from around £20K. Puts the price of a 944T in context, which is why they are so popular. [
So, stop having a go at people and listen to what they are telling you! [
] Back to the cars. It's obviously not fair to compare standard with modified, but there are few standard 944 turbos out there and they'll need work anyway. A standard S2 or 968 is a great car. A standard turbo is flawed. A well-sorted turbo is a great car, a heavily-modified 944T or 968T, or a S/C 968, is beyond great. A really good, well sorted 944T is £8-£10k, S/C 968 £20K. That's the comparison, and makes the 944T a bargain.I'm all for people being able to hold and express their own opinions, and I make full and extensive use of the privilege. Sometimes to express that I don't suffer fools gladly... I haven't ever "met" you before and I had no reason to think you had ever used any other forum, far less that you had felt unpopular there, prior to reading what has been written above. Why then do you suppose it is that my "tw@t-o-meter" started reading high earlier today? Usually (in all areas of life generally, not just the freakshow that is the internet) I don't subscribe to the "no smoke without fire" theory, however I find that when smoke is repeatedly seen in the vicinity of a common denominator there is usually something excessively hot to be found. This is a very friendly place full of people with a massive combined knowledge on a subject that evidently interests you and who are willing to share that knowledge with you to make an ownership experience as pleasant and painless as possible, who will invite you to join them at real world events and who may even become real "first life" friends over the future months and years. I think this can go one of two ways from here, and what you do next will decide which, for me at least. You can make a sarcastic, smart, rude or flip reply and I'll exercise the ignore button so I don't have to read anything you write in the future (I assure you that you stand to lose more than I do in that case), or you can take on board that, perhaps unintentionally, you have come over a little brash / arrogant / aggressive and hence got off on the wrong foot, and decide to tone things down a bit and show some gratitude if people take the time out of their day to help you - a complete stranger to them and who they owe nothing. A lot of people who know me will probably be thinking that's a bit rich coming from me. What can I say? I don't care if some people don't like me and I enjoy stirring up real discussion and even passion (have you ever used one of those sycophantic forums where everyone just congratulates each other on how great everything they say or do is? They're painful!). On the other hand I spent a lot of time getting to know people and (hopefully!) earning some respect by demonstrating that I have something to give the community before I put myself out on a limb by being outspoken, and hence I am tolerated. Some people might even "get" me... As an aside I'm actually in the minority among long term community members in that I don't use Tipec, PH, Rennlist etc. - the global Porsche Internet community isn't the sum of members of all the fourms catering to the marque; very many of them are the same people. What I mean is that you'll naturally run across a lot of the same people if you visit different fora on the same subject, not just in relation to Porsches, so don't flatter yourself that you're being stalked, and don't think that you can upset people on one forum and start with a clean sheet on another.
There are some really low mileage cars around, I know of a Widebody Turbo Cab with under 20,000 miles on it, still trying to persuade the owner to send me some photos (didnt even believe him the first time he told me about it but have spoken to others who have seen it). It spendsmore time jacked up in storage than on the road though.
No worries. You`re right enough, I don`t expect concours or anywhere near it for top dollar. Just not a shed. I don`t mind the search to be honest. As far as 944 Turbos go I`m not clued up to be honest but I`ve had a nice Sapphire Cosworth and a Delta Integrale so I have a half idea what I want. At the end of the day its a 3rd car that`ll spend more time in the garage than out admittedly. It`ll be interesting to see what I end up with.[ORIGINAL: peanut meant nothing by it except what I said. I was not directing it at you but to all the buyers that spend hours searching for a scratch or pin head of rust on a 20 year old car then declare that it isn't mint [
]
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Please don't think that anyone has the time or will to track you! As I said, most of us use more than one forum, so if you ask the same question in several places the chances are that you'll get the same responses. That's why a Tipec member also took the time to post on Pistonheads that your comment was out of context and wrong. There's no censorship of free speech here, don't believe everything you read on Pistonheads! [
][][] No-one wants to moderate anybody. All we ask is that people use a little courtesy and respect here, it's a forum for mature discussion of our cars, not personal criticism and arguments. Join in, ask questions and accept that the replies are from guys with years of knowledge about the cars with a real willingness to help. Now lets get on with that instead of arguing! []Well to my suprise I find myself agreeing with most of your points, quite probably I went into confront mode when I perceived you were brushing me off, my manner can be abrupt I'm sure but if advice is given in good faith it is always my intention to accept it in the same way. Having said this I stand by most of what I have posted previously, it was my opinion at that time and that's all it was, I would ask that no one takes my comments personally, at the end of the day it's just internet twaddle. Regards Paul.
O.K A little insight, years ago I used to be a car trader and old bartering habits die hard , in future I will confine my opinions about values to the real world and not someones pride and joy here.ORIGINAL: pauljmcnultyPlease don't think that anyone has the time or will to track you! As I said, most of us use more than one forum, so if you ask the same question in several places the chances are that you'll get the same responses. That's why a Tipec member also took the time to post on Pistonheads that your comment was out of context and wrong. There's no censorship of free speech here, don't believe everything you read on Pistonheads! [
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