My Experience - 9XX KH Racing Chip
- Thread starter barks944
- Start date
It's a good point, but I have been totally up-front with both of them in explaining what it is I want to do. To re-iterate, should either Jon Mitchell Garages or Promax read this, I am going to test both chips back-to-back in an unscientific manner. I'll fit them both to my otherwise-standard (bar a drilled airbox) '89 S2, and try driving the car in a variety of conditions. So, town/traffic, open road, up hills, pulling in a high gear at low revs and giving it some beans down some twisty stuff (I'll enjoy that bit!) All results will be subjective - there won't be a rolling road involved. I won't be able to test cold starts on more than one chip, and won't be able to test in a variety of climatic temperatures, altitudes. I also won't be able to test MPG. BUT I will post all results up in a public place and answer any questions anyone may have.
I'll post more when there is more to tell.
Oli.
ukmastiff
New member
I personally like the sound of it as an enterprise. If I had teo sets of chips in my hand for the 944 Turbo , Iwould give the same thing a go so that I could draw my own conclusions. I'll definately look foreward to your impressions , though I'd 'really' look foreward to them if they were on a Turbo 
The hard part is getting it right under all load/rpm/throttle positions. I think probably this is the hardest part to test as well as its not easy to do it on a dyno. It is also perhaps the most meaningfull and will contribute the most to driveability.
This is exaclty what Oli is attempting to test here. We already have a statement saying the KH chips are matched at WOT by the MAXHP chips.
This is exaclty what Oli is attempting to test here. We already have a statement saying the KH chips are matched at WOT by the MAXHP chips.
Chaps,
Thanks for your comments.
Yes, and that would be the ideal scenario. But while I have an S2 and some private road (>ahem<) Santa thoughtlessly didn't give me a dyno in my stocking.
Also, while a dyno would be useful, real-world experience is surely the best? I'm more fussed about how my car is to drive than how many horses a dyno may claim it to have. While comparing graphs is great, it's a bit theoretical. Put it another way: would you buy a car which has loads of power but really can't produce it on the road, or a car which is known to be excellent in real life and copes with all situations well? Pragmatism is the way forwards. Am I just making excuses for not having a Dyno? Probably.
Other S2's would be a good idea. Anyone with one, near London, who may be up for a day's fun, please PM me.
Oli.
Thanks for your comments.
Yes, and that would be the ideal scenario. But while I have an S2 and some private road (>ahem<) Santa thoughtlessly didn't give me a dyno in my stocking.
Also, while a dyno would be useful, real-world experience is surely the best? I'm more fussed about how my car is to drive than how many horses a dyno may claim it to have. While comparing graphs is great, it's a bit theoretical. Put it another way: would you buy a car which has loads of power but really can't produce it on the road, or a car which is known to be excellent in real life and copes with all situations well? Pragmatism is the way forwards. Am I just making excuses for not having a Dyno? Probably.
Other S2's would be a good idea. Anyone with one, near London, who may be up for a day's fun, please PM me.
Oli.
Indi9xx
New member
Hi guys,
Just to clear up confusion, JMG is the Porsche specialist garage, JMGSHOP is the Porsche parts mailorder business and 9XX design and manufacture Porsche performance parts. I am Jon Mitchell, Porsche technician for over 20 years now (makes me feel old) and now semi pencil pushing boss of JMG, JMGSHOP and 9XX
Chips. Even your standard chips contain software as well as maps. A lot of chip producers just change the maps or data, with nearly all the 9XX-KH ones they have different software also.
These chips are also programmed with the emphasis of all round improvement in all aspects, not just for peak power.
Safety is also a big aspect of any chip. Too rich can result in bore washing, bore glasing, carbon build up, leading to poor compression and rapid fuel contamination of the engine oil. Too lean can cause detonation, pre-ignition (two different things) valve seat (and stem) deterioration piston damage, plug damage and more.. too much advance or retard on the ignition can cause all the same problems of a lean mixture.
I also need to make it clear that some manufacturers of chips do not go to such lengths to ensure chips are safe, often just chasing an ultimate peak power figure to advertise. I have seen some cars damaged by bad chips, even custom mapped ones. Having said that, I have not heard of any cars being damaged by Promax chips which I consider as far as I know as safe! (thats actually a compliment!)
American chips... These are often less than ideal, often developed for poor quality fuel and in the case of turbo charged cars often for lower boost. This is quite often due to the chip developer having to expect their use with poor quality fuel, this makes them (in my eyes) unsuitable for european specification cars. In some cases also the american cars are built with lower compression engines which can mean that a US spec chip could be dangerous to your european/ROW engine over the short or long term.
The 944 S is a strange market, not many of the cars continue to be used (therefore its a small market) and liability is high (944 S's are prone to problems (head cracking and valve guide wear in particular) which a layman could be wrongly attributed to the chip, therefore product liability insurance is more costly on this item due to increased risk of exposure to our insurance defending or settling a product liability claim. Therefore this chip is £25 more expensive. I don't like it myself, but we are quite unusual in insuring every 9XX product for product liability whereas some companies do not bother. Its to protect you the consumer as much as us.
Try before you buy. We already run a system like this, where if you come to the JMG workshop, we will install a chip and comprehensively check your car over for you... we then charge you for the chip and installation.. You then take your car for a good long drive and if you come back the same day and do not want to keep the chip, we will refund you 100% of what you paid including installation.
Via mailorder (JMGSHOP) we can not offer the same service, partly due to the delicate nature of a chip and the fact that incorrect handling or installation can result in a chip which looks OK on the outside but is actually fried, so testing a chip thats returned could be difficult. Although our chips also carry a 2 year garauntee, so you can return them if you do fry them (even by incorrect handling) and we exchange them for a new one (only charging for shipping). But we cant test returned ones on a whim.
If you want to try before you buy, I recommend taking me up on the workshop installed route. Even if you have promax or any other ones installed when you turn up, we will stand by the no quibble workshop offer and swap them back if you prefer them and refund you 100% of the charge.
I know for some people its a long way to come down to the workshop, but we are having a number of club open days this year, which may make it worth your while. If the members in here wanted to take advantage of the offer of PCGB forum chipping day, I could even arrange a group buy style discount where we would offer the same workshop deal, but only charge the mailorder price and we would lay on some refreshments, competitions and prizes.
On a closing note, I try to steer clear of posting here, often in fear of falling foul of being labled a blatent advertiser or ruining the forum. I came in due to a customer and PCGB member asking me to post here regarding this thread. I have tried to be informative, to offer the members something while trying not to seem to be blowing my companies trumpets.. If this post has offended any of the anti advertising rules, let me know and I will delete it (no hard feelings)
Just to clear up confusion, JMG is the Porsche specialist garage, JMGSHOP is the Porsche parts mailorder business and 9XX design and manufacture Porsche performance parts. I am Jon Mitchell, Porsche technician for over 20 years now (makes me feel old) and now semi pencil pushing boss of JMG, JMGSHOP and 9XX
Chips. Even your standard chips contain software as well as maps. A lot of chip producers just change the maps or data, with nearly all the 9XX-KH ones they have different software also.
These chips are also programmed with the emphasis of all round improvement in all aspects, not just for peak power.
Safety is also a big aspect of any chip. Too rich can result in bore washing, bore glasing, carbon build up, leading to poor compression and rapid fuel contamination of the engine oil. Too lean can cause detonation, pre-ignition (two different things) valve seat (and stem) deterioration piston damage, plug damage and more.. too much advance or retard on the ignition can cause all the same problems of a lean mixture.
I also need to make it clear that some manufacturers of chips do not go to such lengths to ensure chips are safe, often just chasing an ultimate peak power figure to advertise. I have seen some cars damaged by bad chips, even custom mapped ones. Having said that, I have not heard of any cars being damaged by Promax chips which I consider as far as I know as safe! (thats actually a compliment!)
American chips... These are often less than ideal, often developed for poor quality fuel and in the case of turbo charged cars often for lower boost. This is quite often due to the chip developer having to expect their use with poor quality fuel, this makes them (in my eyes) unsuitable for european specification cars. In some cases also the american cars are built with lower compression engines which can mean that a US spec chip could be dangerous to your european/ROW engine over the short or long term.
The 944 S is a strange market, not many of the cars continue to be used (therefore its a small market) and liability is high (944 S's are prone to problems (head cracking and valve guide wear in particular) which a layman could be wrongly attributed to the chip, therefore product liability insurance is more costly on this item due to increased risk of exposure to our insurance defending or settling a product liability claim. Therefore this chip is £25 more expensive. I don't like it myself, but we are quite unusual in insuring every 9XX product for product liability whereas some companies do not bother. Its to protect you the consumer as much as us.
Try before you buy. We already run a system like this, where if you come to the JMG workshop, we will install a chip and comprehensively check your car over for you... we then charge you for the chip and installation.. You then take your car for a good long drive and if you come back the same day and do not want to keep the chip, we will refund you 100% of what you paid including installation.
Via mailorder (JMGSHOP) we can not offer the same service, partly due to the delicate nature of a chip and the fact that incorrect handling or installation can result in a chip which looks OK on the outside but is actually fried, so testing a chip thats returned could be difficult. Although our chips also carry a 2 year garauntee, so you can return them if you do fry them (even by incorrect handling) and we exchange them for a new one (only charging for shipping). But we cant test returned ones on a whim.
If you want to try before you buy, I recommend taking me up on the workshop installed route. Even if you have promax or any other ones installed when you turn up, we will stand by the no quibble workshop offer and swap them back if you prefer them and refund you 100% of the charge.
I know for some people its a long way to come down to the workshop, but we are having a number of club open days this year, which may make it worth your while. If the members in here wanted to take advantage of the offer of PCGB forum chipping day, I could even arrange a group buy style discount where we would offer the same workshop deal, but only charge the mailorder price and we would lay on some refreshments, competitions and prizes.
On a closing note, I try to steer clear of posting here, often in fear of falling foul of being labled a blatent advertiser or ruining the forum. I came in due to a customer and PCGB member asking me to post here regarding this thread. I have tried to be informative, to offer the members something while trying not to seem to be blowing my companies trumpets.. If this post has offended any of the anti advertising rules, let me know and I will delete it (no hard feelings)
Please tell me there is one for an '83!.......
Mike
Mike
pauljmcnulty
Active member
On a closing note, I try to steer clear of posting here, often in fear of falling foul of being labled a blatent advertiser or ruining the forum. I came in due to a customer and PCGB member asking me to post here regarding this thread. I have tried to be informative, to offer the members something while trying not to seem to be blowing my companies trumpets.. If this post has offended any of the anti advertising rules, let me know and I will delete it (no hard feelings)
We've not had many problems with you, Jon, and you're a pretty regular poster here over the years. Don't stop contributing! [
]There's a fine line between advertising and helping the 944 community with unbiased advice, but neither you or the other supplier mentioned regarding chips are likely to upset anyone by explaining how the product works and giving an honest view as to whether it's a worthwhile upgrade. I don't see anything but good comments about the Promax or JMG chips so I'd say go for either. The offer of "try it for free" can't be a bad one.
MRGT
New member
Jon
Thanks for the explanation of price difference of the 'S' chip, makes me feel better knowing my car is more unique than all those S2's and Turbo's floating around ! []
Personnally I dont find your comments to be 'advertising', simply a response to questions which had already been asked.
Thanks for the explanation of price difference of the 'S' chip, makes me feel better knowing my car is more unique than all those S2's and Turbo's floating around ! [
]Personnally I dont find your comments to be 'advertising', simply a response to questions which had already been asked.
ronald smith
New member
Jon- please continue posting-I,m sure all members and guests of club forum would join with me in that.
I currently have a promax chip fitted- but would like the opportunity to try 9xx one- I may well take up your
offer Jon- happy if it could be part of a Dyno-day or other event.
Paul Mc. any chance of something being organised by PCGB.
Oli - Not far from London town- could meet up with Wolfie and test chips.
Cheers
Ron
I currently have a promax chip fitted- but would like the opportunity to try 9xx one- I may well take up your
offer Jon- happy if it could be part of a Dyno-day or other event.
Paul Mc. any chance of something being organised by PCGB.
Oli - Not far from London town- could meet up with Wolfie and test chips.
Cheers
Ron
AndrewS
Member
Hi Oli,
I am aware that we have sent you a ProMAX chip for your 944S2 (or have agreed to do so, not sure if you have arranged to have it sent to you yet). If you need any help with installation (the 944 S2 is a more challenging ECU to open than the 944T and other 944 models), please get in touch.
Let us know how you get on with your evaluation. Enjoy.
Regards,
Andrew
I am aware that we have sent you a ProMAX chip for your 944S2 (or have agreed to do so, not sure if you have arranged to have it sent to you yet). If you need any help with installation (the 944 S2 is a more challenging ECU to open than the 944T and other 944 models), please get in touch.
Let us know how you get on with your evaluation. Enjoy.
Regards,
Andrew
944 man
Active member
I see what youre getting at there, that it wont be a dynometer race for the redline. Thats the part that is actually the problem though; that it will be a subjective judgement that everyone else will be party too. You might supply what it technically the superior map, but the tester may favour a particular characteristic/s of the lesser map and because its subjective, pronounce it superior.
That said: Id be curious to see the results of a seat-of-the-pants dyno test of a cheap £50 eBay solution too.
Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members
Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions
