Saratoga Sunroof - Bulk-Buy

Rob Sharp · Nov 13, 2016

All,

I've just mailed Nick (and most of you are probably copied) because for me anyway, the seals fitted to the roof don't sit properly in the roof aperture.

I'd still really like the roof to be a success, so I'm sticking with in and I'd like Nick to assess what I've found.

Left hand side:

Right rear corner...

PSH · Nov 13, 2016

wow...I know you guys are hanging on in there but clearly, the product as is,is not fit for purpose. Looking at Rob's picture above I don't see how the seal even when fitted properly is going to seal the roof. To me, the roof looks too small, has anyone compared sizes between the original and the saratoga roof? I'm talking about the glass section itself, Rob's picture seems to suggest that the rubber seal needs to be a lot thinker, something that iirc isn't the case on the original roof section.

Pete

Rob Sharp · Nov 13, 2016

On my roof at least, the problem is that the seal snakes its way down the straight edges of the glass. At the points where it is positioned correctly it's a snug fit with the sunroof aperture. To my eye at least, it seems as though no measuring has been done to ensure proper positioning- someone's just slapped it on.

As the seal is fixed using what looks like special double-sided foam, this isn't a job for replacing at home.

Rob

JamieMac · Nov 13, 2016

Wonky centre tab on mine:

MJL944 · Nov 13, 2016

Thanks for posting those pics, Rob - it makes for pretty appalling viewing!

It's the final straw for me, I'm afraid. I'm phoning up on Monday to insist on a full and immediate refund.

To cap it all, I've not even been shown the courtesy by Pilkington of a confirmation to say my roof has ever arrived at the Rotherham depot - since making payment I've heard nada.

Having seen Blackadder's earlier photos over on TIPEC, it was clear the seal on his roof was not fit for purpose and Rob's is even worse.

We've now reported: astonishingly poor clips that break on first use; caps that seem to protrude far in excess of any previous versions (= likely wind noise); slapdash application of the crucial outer seal (which in itself looks nothing like the quality of previous Saratoga seals); wonky inner tabs and poor packaging leading to scratches on the glass during transit.

Sorry, but I can't see how anyone in their right mind can think these roofs will be sorted to our satisfaction.

Tom, you are a star for having given this a go, but I hope you accept that many/most of us will now have had enough and will now insist on our money back.

944Scott · Nov 13, 2016

Yet another example of our American cousins not giving two hoots about this, I think its disgusting how we have been treated, looking at generic Saratoga pictures on google of past sun roofs the seals seem to be so much better!

As I have said before I feel Pilkington UK should be sorting out this mess now, somebody needs to step up and own this problem.

GlennS · Nov 14, 2016

MJL944 said:
To cap it all, I've not even been shown the courtesy by Pilkington of a confirmation to say my roof has ever arrived at the Rotherham depot - since making payment I've heard nada.

I'm in the same position (although it's the Heathrow depot in my case). Paid on the 20th October; nothing heard subsequently. I emailed Karen and Nick on the 2nd November but received no response. I emailed Nick again on the 8th November when he said he would "ask the branch to sort it out" and asked for my phone number - odd since they found it easily enough when they called to get my credit card details on the 20th October - still nothing heard from the depot. No unicorns or sunroof and I am £400 down, plus I know it will be unusable if I did get it.

ALZ 1933 · Nov 14, 2016

I asked if there has been any progress on the Pilkington stand at the NEC yesterday. The first person I spoke to was adamant that it wasn't Pilkington I bought it from, "Does it have our name on it?"..." If you imported it it's nothing to do with us"...

I gave up explaining myself to him & asked for Nick, he was very apologetic & explained that the fixing problem has been reported back to America & is waiting for a solution asap.

He did comment on the fix being sooner rather than later as the time taken to get this far has been unacceptable (although his hands have been tied by the supply side in the States).

As it stands, and from what I experienced, only one man (Nick) knows anything about this & I can only hope he has a loud enough voice to be heard by those that can fix this problem.... Perhaps it needs to be brought to the attention of somebody at a higher level in the company that has the required rank to make things happen???

Waylander · Nov 14, 2016

I have paid for the roof and delivery to my desired destination. 10 days ago

its vanished, I have had no shipping information or tracking, emails to Karen have not been responded to, the roof has not arrived,

£400 out of pocket no roof, not that it's going to be much good when or if it arrives.

time to call the bank and recover the transaction, really did not need this stress while trying to recover from open heart surgery

ALZ 1933 · Nov 14, 2016

Looks like those who haven't collected yet will be 1st in line for refunds:

Good Afternoon All,

Please accept my apologies for the ongoing issues with these panels, I am still in discussion with the plant on resolving this but as yet I have no firm details on when that may actually be.

Given that I cannot guarantee any resolution date I have taken the decision to return all of the glasses back to the factory and issue refunds for orders placed.

Over the next few days I will organise our wholesale branches to collect them from you at your convenience and refunds will be made at the same time back onto the cards that you made payment with.

Once this issue has been resolved I am happy to offer them for sale once again but until that time I feel this is the best solution.

The issue with the catches is a serious safety concern for me, until I am sure that we have suitable resolutions in place I don’t want to let them remain ‘in circulation’.

Please let me know if you have any questions regarding this at all

Once again apologies for any inconvenience this has caused.

Best Regards

Nick Gardiner

General Manager

Pilkington Automotive Queenborough

zcacogp · Nov 14, 2016

Yes, and it all gets curiouser and curiouser (with apologies to Lewis Carroll). There has to be a story here; if it is indeed only Nick who knows about this then it all sounds a bit odd. Has he allowed a short production run without more senior authorisation? Was he doing it as a favour to the 944 community? Why are the latest rooves not the same as the ones originally produced? I get the impression that there is more to this than meets the eye and I'm curious.

The other thing is that I bet they will cost more than four-hundred-odd-quid (or whatever we paid) when (/if) they are finally made for sale with all the problems rectified. The episode thus far will have cost Pilkington quite dearly and they'll need to recoup that cost somewhere.

Oli.

bumperblue · Nov 14, 2016

Not sure I am going I will be sending mine back...... i think we will never see them again. This would be the easiest and cheapest way in the long run for Pilkingtons. As they would not have to do anything and just bin the roofs.

zcacogp · Nov 14, 2016

A similar thought crossed my mind ....

GlennS · Nov 14, 2016

And so it ends, for me at least, since I never received my roof. A pity I never did get to see a unicorn. Heartfelt thanks to Tom for trying to make this happen.

dave993cars · Nov 14, 2016

I for one don't want to let my roof go, I feel as was said above "I think you will never see them again" Is a distinked possibility.

As has been said before there is a fix that could quite easily be reached with some simple engineering, what would Pilkington say to a refund of sorts (give us half our costs back) to allow us to resolve the problem ourselves, would anyone be up for that ?

Waylander · Nov 14, 2016

Some of us will not even get the he chance to keep them, as it's not even been delivered

that would be seriously unfair to all

944Fripp · Nov 15, 2016

Hi folks, after receiving the rather disappointing email from Nick yesterday afternoon I have to concede that I will have to give my roof back.

I had the same thoughts as many of you so I responded directly to Nick with the following and received the answers in bold from Nick.

Hi Nick,

Thanks for this, although frustrating for everyone it seems like a sensible next step, safety has to come first. The only questions I have are:

[ol][*]I know this is a very small order for Pilkington, can you provide reassurance that they will definitely be offered for sale again when the catches are complete? I have personally put a lot of time and effort into this order and it would be a real shame if that time were wasted. [font="arial black,avant garde"]Yes they will be offered as soon as catches are sorted.[/font][*]Realistically, I'm sure that there are a number of people that are not intending on purchasing a unit again even with the repaired seals/catches, will the panels be available at the same price that we have paid already (£418) regardless? [font="arial black,avant garde"]Sure same price as agreed regardless of ‘reorder’ amount[/font][*]How do you plan on notifying everyone that they are on sale again? I would hate for these to go back on general sale and for anyone that has placed an order and waited patiently to then lose out later down the line. [font="arial black,avant garde"]Ill send a mail out to all again to notify of any progress and when they are available again, I wont sell anything until offered to you all first.[/font][/ol]Thanks Nick.

I know talk is cheap but I've no reason to doubt Nick (just his American colleagues).

Admittedly the £418 back at this point in time would be handy but I also have to accept that although I am sure I can engineer a good solution, Pilkington do know what they are doing with automotive glass. If I were to engineer a solution and it failed, the consequences don't bear thinking about. Similarly, for Pilkington if they leave these in circulation and something were to happen they could be in really hot water.

dave993cars said:
I for one don't want to let my roof go, I feel as was said above "I think you will never see them again" Is a distinked possibility.

As has been said before there is a fix that could quite easily be reached with some simple engineering, what would Pilkington say to a refund of sorts (give us half our costs back) to allow us to resolve the problem ourselves, would anyone be up for that ?

I feel the same but I doubt you would get anything back at all (feel free to ask...if you don't ask you don't get!). It is really not in Pilkington's interest to allow these to continue in circulation though because they represent a safety risk to road users.

If I hear anything back that you are not all copied in on then I'll update this thread. Sorry it didn't work out for everyone, b%#$dy yanks messing it all up for us!

Maybe summer 2017 will be the year of Saratoga?!?!?

DavidL · Nov 15, 2016

Thanks Tom.

I must admit I was one of those who thought I'd hang onto mine as I can store it until I could resolve the issues myself. At least I'd have the unit. I suppose the only question is, whilst Nick is making the right noises and I'm sure has every intention of continuing it, may be taken out of his hands. Once its gone its gone...

Waylander · Nov 15, 2016

The cost of a bad self engineered repair that could go wrong and possibly hurt someone with 10kg of glass sheet flying through the air at 70mph.

return the roofs get them fixed then the responsibility is on pilkington not you.