Sat Nav/TMC

[P996997]

I'm very unhappy with Porsche attitude to this matter; I feel that the system has been missold to me. I went into great detail and discussed the merits of the system at the point of sale. I explained that I did not require the navigation to know where I was going and I ordered on the merits of the TMC.
Will be at OPC tomorrow and await reply to my request left there a month or so ago.

 

[Guest]

I am surprised to find so much owners have the same probelm, I have been having the same kind of nightmares with the sat nav. The response from Porsche is diabolical (Uk HQ), the information that is provided by the opc is even worst. This is my first 911 and have order on hold for 997 c4s as the system is a joke. I absolutley love the car but use sat nav on a daily basis which is most times counter productive. Any help with resolving with be most appreciated although I would not hold my breath

 

[Guest]

I took delivery of my 987s in late April 05 and it was fitted with the Oct 04 Sat Nav disc. To cut a long story short my OPC has now supplied the April 05 disc FREE of charge and has enabled the TMC function to work. The system had to be re booted by them but everything works fine now. I even got a bunch of flowers for the wife. Never mind this PCGB Board pressure lark!; just remember your legal rights. Hope this helps

 

[Guest]

just to update you all, have e-mailed my supplying OPC for a booking in date for the upgrade....

 

[Delbox]

Nick, are you anticipating a charge - or are you going to let them do the work then argue afterwards?

 

[oliver]

Presumably the issues here relate equally to Boxster and Cayenne owners. So, perhaps a collective approach to Porsche is required. Certainly those owners with PCM1 appear to have been left completely out in the cold by Porsche.

 

[Guest]

I am assuming this will be done by OPC foc as I have paid for the system when I purchased the car. See what happends..

 

[Guest]

I have now spoken with my OPC, the sales guy tells me that it was never included in my January 2005 car (I don't think he is correct) i will need to look out the old paperwork and see if it says anything. StrAnge thing is when I brought it back from the factory and drove through France I am sure I had it showing then.

The sales guy is going to speak to the Service Manager; I will report back once I have heard from them.

 

[Guest]

Hi guys

As someone whose first Porsche owning experience (plain old cooking model 997) is only 6 weeks away I have read this thread as it has developed with increasing nervousness. Looks like as long as I get the April 05 disc I might just get TMC albeit with what sounds like primitive sat nav?

I thought you might be interested in the story below about how Audi are treating their existing customers now that they are launching TrafficMaster in their range.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/58469/audis_smart_satnav.html

At present I have TMC in my BMW and it doesnt work in the UK but it does work, and works really well in France. When I queried it with the dealership three years ago they said BMW UK hadn't bought a TMC licence for the UK as at the time they were still selling TrafficMaster as an option. On new Beemers TMC is included and works well.

Should have visited this forum before I ordered my car - I specced what the OPC told me was leading edge technology ... the phone!

 

[Guest]

Can someone tell me the easy way to tell if its working on my system. Apparently I have PCM2 with the 2005 DVD, but I've never really tested it in anger yet

However I had a quick try today and projected a route that would take me through the roadworks on the M25, which had the blue triangles showing congestion on the map display and showed on the TMC on Route Info screen as "slow traffic". Selected Dynamic routing and lo and behold it still took me through the congested roadworks. I could only assume that it was still faster to take the roadworks than route around them and the system is intelligent enough to calculate that....right???

Anyone confirm this?

 

[pvernham]

On my X5, the Satnav comes up with a warning that there are delays on the route ahead, tells you how far ahead the delay is and the projected time delay that you will experience, it then gives you an option of whether you want to take an alternative route.

I have not yet experienced this in the 911!

 

[Delbox]

Derek, I know that you were championing this cause on our behalf; and I'm sure that we're all grateful for your efforts. However, it's all gone very quiet and many of us seek to benefit from the TMC and 'Dynamic Routing' facilities of PCM2. Is the Club trying to get an agreement with Porsche - or are we all to be left to deal with the issue individually. It would be nice to have a definitive statement on what is involved to gain the functionality and the costs, if any, involved.

Derek

 

[dereksharpuk]

I have twice spoken to PCGB Chairman, David Newton, on this subject. He assures me that he will take the matter up with PGB, but so far I have had no results. I'll telephone him this evening to see where we stand. I'm sure that collectively we have more clout and thus think that for the time being we use this route. After all, what other benefits do we get from the Agreement we have with PAG & PGB?

Sadly, under PCGB rules, I as 997 Register Secretary am forbidden to approach PGB directly. This is naturally very frustrating, especially as I personally am affected and have more time than our Chairman to negociate. I agree with everything that has been said on this Forum and think the situation is disgraceful. At the very least PGB have a duty and responsibility to its customers. In the long term they risk losing customers if we become disatisfied.

All that said, individuals are quite at liberty to take whatever action they feel appropriate. And should do!

 

[Delbox]

Derek, thanks for the prompt reply - and for undertaking to contact the Chairman again. I think that we are all frustrated over this issue and seek an early resolution - whatever it may involve!

Derek

 

[oliver]

ORIGINAL: dereksharpuk

Sadly, under PCGB rules, I as 997 Register Secretary am forbidden to approach PGB directly. This is naturally very frustrating, especially as I personally am affected and have more time than our Chairman to negociate.

Whilst this rule is very well intentioned, can the Board not officially appoint you, as the appropriate Club representative, to liaise with Porsche Cars in order to help resolve this matter?

This has to be the better course of action when you (and presumably the Boxster and Cayenne RSs) have an intimate understanding of the problem, represent the disaffected members/owners and the Chairman already has a full work load.

 

[dpoynton]

ORIGINAL: jhfsmith

I took delivery of my 987s in late April 05 and it was fitted with the Oct 04 Sat Nav disc. To cut a long story short my OPC has now supplied the April 05 disc FREE of charge and has enabled the TMC function to work. The system had to be re booted by them but everything works fine now. I even got a bunch of flowers for the wife. Never mind this PCGB Board pressure lark!; just remember your legal rights. Hope this helps

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, but did readers of the thread miss this post?

We appear to have someone in the UK, whose system works as it should. His OPC have sorted this out - now is that an admission from an agent of Porsche Cars GB that there was an obligation (moral or otherwise (ie, trading standards)) to do so, that needed to be satisfied?

Where are our legal people here? We must have some solicitors amongst our merry band of men and women? Please opine.

Also, and BEFORE talking to Porsche Cars GB we need to get a grip on the problem. If as Nic says certain cars are affected, and thus have been identified, there must be a database held by the importers of all those vehicles. Thus they know the size of the problem.
But there is an asymmetry of information here, we do not know the size of it and we need to, for our own negotiation stance. (Can we obtain a copy of that database?)

This issue is pretty major, I think we all agree. Thus, I believe that this should form a concerted article in PP, and all magazines identified with the brand, together with other interest groups such as TIPEC and 911uk.

We will THEN have the clout to make them sit up and pay attention - when we know how many people are affected and can estimate how much money has been paid to the importers, and the cost of rectification. Also, what about EU law, TMC works elsewhere but not here, is PAG falling foul of EU law on trading standards?

To date, there has been much posturing and many ideas passed around, but no-one apears to be taking the issue particularly seriously (I know some of you will be, but it is not obvious to me).

A fair few owners will be professionals (lawyers, bankers (me - careful with the spelling!), accountants, etc) let's use this knowledge to our advantage and not look like a bunch of 'cretins' who just shout and winge. Let's get our ammunition together and when we're ready we can throw it into the pit !

And please, do not start any negotiation with what we are prepared to pay to get what we want. Start by demanding that we are given what we paid for and see what happens thereafter.

Comments welcomed (and expected).

Best
D

 

[jonathanw]

I have just visited my OPC at Hatfield regarding a ? problem with my adaptive seats. The service manager was not aware of the TMC issue on cars built before April 05. My own cab has the Oct 04 DVD and no TMC. The service manager suggested I write to Porsche in Reading. He stated that he was not aware of any TMC/sat nav problem in 997s, Cayennes or Boxsters with PCM2. I did mention that some PCGB members had stated on the forum that their OPC had agreed a free upgrade. He very nicely repeated that I should contact Reading!

I wonder whether this is a polite brush-off.

We also tyalked about the change in spec in that newer cars had MP2 capabalities and that there was no way without changeing the entire unit of having MP3 inoleder cars.

 

[Geoff_Fields]

I think the service manager has selective memory, hasn't heard about problems, yeah right!
Read my earlyer comments, the latest DVD from June 05 997S does not work in my Feb 05 car?

 

[Delbox]

Here's the response from my OPC; it reflects the content of a technical bulletin:


[blockquote]
TMC NAVIGATION DISCS FOR PCM 2.1

TMC navigation is an additional function which has been incorporated into the PCM system for Model Year 2006.

On MY05 987 produced since the middle of April 2005 (CW16), TMC has been enabled by a later PCM (Model B) with different software.

MY05 987 produced before April 05 are fitted with PCM 2.1 (model A); to enable the TMC function on these cars an update navigation disc set will be available in the near future.

IMPORTANT NOTE

We are aware that TMC discs have been copied for use on PCM 2.1 model A.
Without the proper updated discs it is possible that the PCM navigation DVD drive software may be corrupted permanently. Centres should not accept navigation units, with copied DVD discs inserted, under warranty.[/blockquote]
Del

 

[Guest]

I dont buy their claim that using the wrong disc will permanently corrupt the system. All computer systems come with built in firmware which is the base line to boot up from and does not change unless commanded to do so deliberately at a low level, usually only by an engineer with special knowledge. This statement implies to me that they just dont want you to try because of the obvious customer satisfaction issues it will raise, when you find it does not work for you

Porsche Centers seems to be developing customer sat issues which they could easily avoid if they took proper and honest ownership of what are "their" problems. From my experiences lately here and with them directly they are clearly aiming to go down market