Suspension Upgrade for 944 S2
- Thread starter herbie75
- Start date
Negotiations start at 10k Sterling (blimmin' NZ keyboard with no Pound symbol!). That's the rub - I don't know that the market would support that just now (or ever again?), but it's way less than the sum of the parts, never mind the labour to put it all together.
The car is a track slag, not a looker or daily driver; there is gravel rash/chipped paint, marks where the side strips were removed, exposed fasteners holding the side skirts on etc. It is also not that pleasant to schlep through traffic in; no air-con and no power steering sees to that. Lastly the bushes squeak like a box of mice when it's warm, the Rose joints chatter and the brakes squeal like stuck pigs. I think that's all part of the character and you could use it everyday but it would be hardcore.
It would come with a full MoT which would probably mean a new windscreen as well as it is cracked due to my being a clumsy berk with the bonnet one day.
- 1990 944 Turbo in Glacier blue
- Rust and accident free shell (apart from a blister around the number plate lights), Waxoyled and Hammerited around the sills prior to fitting 968 side skirts
- Strasse built ex-Porsche race series engine circa 300bhp
- KW v3 suspension with re-indexed torsions[
], including replacement of the axle mounts - Weltmeister adjustable ARBs front and rear with Rose jointed links
- solid bushes front and rear (wishbone, castor, rear arms)
- Rose jointed adjustable top mounts
- Front strut brace (I think Weltmeister)
- Big Black front brakes with Performance Friction 97 pads all round and 964 Turbo drilled front disks
- Griffin custom alloy radiator
- Custom thermostatically controlled oil cooler
- air-con delete
- power steering delete
- power windows, headlight height, headlight wash, rear wiper, central locking, power and heated mirror, hatch release etc. removed including stripping wiring from loom
- seats replaced with 2 x Corbeau Sprint XL, solid mounted
- 2 x Sabelt 5 point harnesses - mounted but never used (because there is no rear cage/harness bar)
- Genuine 17" Cup 1 wheels with Dunlop SSR track tyres, painted anthracite
- 18" Cup 2 replicas with road tyres
- 968 CS door mirrors (i.e. manually adjusted)
- Carbon fibre 968 Turbo S adjustable rear wing
- Carbon fibre effect front splitter / undertray
- Front fog/driving lights removed (parking lights relocated behind clear indicator lenses)
- Lindsey Racing "stage 5 header panel" (badge panel with big hole in it to aid intercooler cooling)
- Momo dished suede rimmed wheel
- Rennsport adjustable throttle pedal and matching brake/clutch pedals
- Fuel and brake lines entirely renewed from the tank to the engine bay
- Spare fibreglass bonnet (not fitted)
- Goodridge brake hoses
- Clear indicators front and rear (I ran the group buy a few years ago...)
The car is a track slag, not a looker or daily driver; there is gravel rash/chipped paint, marks where the side strips were removed, exposed fasteners holding the side skirts on etc. It is also not that pleasant to schlep through traffic in; no air-con and no power steering sees to that. Lastly the bushes squeak like a box of mice when it's warm, the Rose joints chatter and the brakes squeal like stuck pigs. I think that's all part of the character and you could use it everyday but it would be hardcore.
It would come with a full MoT which would probably mean a new windscreen as well as it is cracked due to my being a clumsy berk with the bonnet one day.
RC18B 911 turbo
New member
I'll give that some consideration I think because I do want a track car. Just have to do some figuring.
ORIGINAL: Fen
My S2 with 968CS springs and the rear lowered on the spring plates to match:
Hi Fen ... What shocks is this car wear for this photo...MO30 or standard S2 ?
Another one for you chaps if you dont mind ? My S2 has slighty larger than normal wheels fitted to it so if i was to fit the KW and have all the re-indexing done how would these wheels cope as in would they Rub ? Has anyone go the KW kit with 225 35 18s front and 265 30 18 rear ? I know i can hear the cries now ( why do you want wheels that size for ? )....But could i get away with thaem ?
#ro
Big Dave
New member
Steve.
A m8 of mine has the 18" wheels fitted to his 968. it is LOW....[Bilstein Escort cup " re-indexed",suspension],,It also uses Dunlop D01J track tyres on it... They are wider than standard 265,s. This works great..
BUT
On the S2/turbo. the rear arch lip ISNT rolled under [it is on a 968],,so it maybee that the rear tyres could catch this lip....
Its all VERY dependant on what offsets / ET,s your wheels are.??? AND what camber the car is running...
Only other challenge you poss will have is the tramlining effect with the 18,s....[8|][8|]
A m8 of mine has the 18" wheels fitted to his 968. it is LOW....[Bilstein Escort cup " re-indexed",suspension],,It also uses Dunlop D01J track tyres on it... They are wider than standard 265,s. This works great..
BUT
On the S2/turbo. the rear arch lip ISNT rolled under [it is on a 968],,so it maybee that the rear tyres could catch this lip....
Its all VERY dependant on what offsets / ET,s your wheels are.??? AND what camber the car is running...
Only other challenge you poss will have is the tramlining effect with the 18,s....[8|][8|]
The S2 in the pic you "quoted" has the same size wheels you're talking about on it - and S2 rear shocks.
The same wheels are in the picture of the Turbo post index but pre KW fitment and it has been run quite a bit with them on.
The S2 was the one that rubbed as it didn't come with rolled arches from the factory. On the Turbo it used to rub lightly at the front of the rear passenger side arch about the 10 o'clock position in extremes (where they all rub if they're going to as the car is "out" between the 2 sides). I carefully flattened the already rolled edge completely against the inner arch and it's fine now.
The same wheels are in the picture of the Turbo post index but pre KW fitment and it has been run quite a bit with them on.
The S2 was the one that rubbed as it didn't come with rolled arches from the factory. On the Turbo it used to rub lightly at the front of the rear passenger side arch about the 10 o'clock position in extremes (where they all rub if they're going to as the car is "out" between the 2 sides). I carefully flattened the already rolled edge completely against the inner arch and it's fine now.
sawood12
New member
Another reason why the KW's or any rear coil over set needs the TB's re-indexing when fitting is that they are set up such that when the car is stationary the TB is neutral i.e. is not sprung so it is not fighting against the coil over. At stock ride height the rear coilovers (well KW's at least) are physically not long enough at their longest setting to span the gap between the mounts so you will effectively be pulling in your trailing arms to install and pre-loading your TB's if you don't re-index. You cannot alleveate this via adjustment of your eccentrics.
You'd be surprised at how many of our cars are no longer at stock ride height. Mine wasn't, in fact the back didn't need dropping that much when the KW's went in. I reckon this was because at some stage in the cars history one side of the rear dropped and the TB's were re-indexed to fix and I reckon they lowered one rather than raising the side that dropped. Apparently this was a fairly common thing with 944's so a similar scenario could have played out with many 944's in the past.
Aso I would recomment upgrading your TB while you're in there. I installed 944 M030 TB's which is stiff enough for road use, 968 M030 might be a tad too stiff for road. I also installed Racers Edge camber adjustable top mounts which can be used with stock struts as they don't alter front ride height. These too are a well recommended upgrade. They create a few clungs and noises when manouvering in car parks but make the front end very very pointy indeed. I also kept my stock ARB's but changed the bushes and on road the car corners very flat indeed.
You'd be surprised at how many of our cars are no longer at stock ride height. Mine wasn't, in fact the back didn't need dropping that much when the KW's went in. I reckon this was because at some stage in the cars history one side of the rear dropped and the TB's were re-indexed to fix and I reckon they lowered one rather than raising the side that dropped. Apparently this was a fairly common thing with 944's so a similar scenario could have played out with many 944's in the past.
Aso I would recomment upgrading your TB while you're in there. I installed 944 M030 TB's which is stiff enough for road use, 968 M030 might be a tad too stiff for road. I also installed Racers Edge camber adjustable top mounts which can be used with stock struts as they don't alter front ride height. These too are a well recommended upgrade. They create a few clungs and noises when manouvering in car parks but make the front end very very pointy indeed. I also kept my stock ARB's but changed the bushes and on road the car corners very flat indeed.
Big Dave
New member
Scott.
The 968 torsions are ALL the same. There is no difference whatsoever between the models....Be it a CS/M030, Coupe or even a cab, there all the same diameter T bars...
Oh and NO they arent too harsh for the road,, after all ALL 968,s have them....
Its the 944,s that differ....
The 968 torsions are ALL the same. There is no difference whatsoever between the models....Be it a CS/M030, Coupe or even a cab, there all the same diameter T bars...
Oh and NO they arent too harsh for the road,, after all ALL 968,s have them....
Its the 944,s that differ....
There is a 1990 944T that my indie works on that had 924 Le Mans suspension on it and it was a big deal in his eyes.
At a guess the hub changed when the ABS geometry was introduced so you should switch to older hubs. I know for sure that the wishbones were different between early and late cars and you wouldn't want to fit Golf style pressed steel wishbones from a 924, so you'd be looking for early Turbo ones as well as different hubs. Then of course having changed all of that you wouldn't be able to run your ABS...
At a guess the hub changed when the ABS geometry was introduced so you should switch to older hubs. I know for sure that the wishbones were different between early and late cars and you wouldn't want to fit Golf style pressed steel wishbones from a 924, so you'd be looking for early Turbo ones as well as different hubs. Then of course having changed all of that you wouldn't be able to run your ABS...
Tam Lin
New member
There's a teeny difference (.5cm?) at the bottom of the front strut mount between 924S and 944 S2. When the KW v3 was fitted to my 924S, a little bit of machining had to be done to the lower attachment points to ensure a solid fit. So yes, there is a difference, and no, it's not a big deal.
Yes but fitting a later strut to an early car you have to machine/grind some of the inside of the strut mounting out - they are a different width as well as the hole spacing. Fitting later struts to an earlier car would be easier as you could either shim it or tighten them to bend in the faces.
Tony
Tony
sawood12
New member
Ahh, didn't know that. However what I was getting to is that 944 M030 TB's are 25mm (there or there abouts) and if 968TB's are 30mm TB's as I thought they were from my research at the time, with the KW installed I thought the rear might be too stiff with 968 TB's . With the 944 M030 TB's I find the rear is just about as stiff as I would like considering the car spends most of its time on the road. I was after a prodominantly fast road setup that was slightly compromised to maximise enjoyment on trackdays rather than a prodominantly track set-up that might be too much for the road. I personally think i've struck that balance pretty well with my setup. But these things are down to personal preference.
TTM
Well-known member
sawood12
New member
Strange. When I called up the OPC to order the TB's he came across two M030 TB's listed. Upon furher inspection he came to the conclusion one was 25.5mm 944 M030 and 30mm 968 M030 which is why I thought the 968 M030 was different. Oh well, maybe he forgot his glasses that day. I went with the 944 M030 option as I knew they were 25.5mm from my own research with the PET and didn't want to go bigger.
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