TiAL Wastegate group buy

[John Sims]

Mr Sims has been very quiet on this one

Ordered mine this morning [] - don't tell Belinda.

So what shall I use as a boost controller then? It strikes me that without one there will be an open nipple (oh misses) as I/we only have one line running to our standard waste gates - that'll be why it's a dual port one then.

Any details - links - diagrams gratefully recieved.

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: danmason

local porsche specialist recently recommended the Deltagate 42mm (I think) to me - however I have zero knowledge on wastegates and everyone here seems very enthusiastic about the TiAL...

Check this thread for a comparison of Deltagate vs. TiAL

 

[John Sims]

Any details - links - diagrams gratefully recieved.

Perhaps in answer to my question above, I have been trawling the net (I realy must get some work done) and found a Boost Controler on the Lindsey Racing Website

Here for Lindsey Boost Controler

It looks like it could do the job, is cheap, and has more blue purasil tubing to go with my current batch []

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: John Sims
Ordered mine this morning [] - don't tell Belinda.

So what shall I use as a boost controller then? It strikes me that without one there will be an open nipple (oh misses) as I/we only have one line running to our standard waste gates - that'll be why it's a dual port one then.

Any details - links - diagrams gratefully recieved.

Turns out you weren't quiet after all - I missed that you said earlier you were in. That's 100% uptake from the hardcore boostie contingent []

Try here for a controller link.

edited to reduce the amount I had quoted

 

[Diver944]

Here's the diagram that Danno posted regarding the three ways to hook up a TiAL.

I am going to use my Reliaboost in single port mode. Danno actually recommends this way compared to dual port mode as it produces less boost spikes. I shall plump for a 0.8 bar spring in the TiAL as that is the minimum I would ever run, and then control it up to 1.05 bar using the Reliaboost

 

[Guest]

I've got an Accuboost controller, I'm assuming that it's going to be OK to use with the Tial and if so which of the above three setups would suit me best?

Need to order one of these pretty quickly or I'm going to convince myself that I don't really need it

Tim.

 

[Diver944]

I am fairly certain, no almost positive that the Accuboost and Reliaboost are identical in operation, but the Accuboost is easier to adjust. You simply twiddle the knob with teh Accuboost as opposed to loosen a screw and use two spanners like the Reliaboost

Therefore option one would be for you

 

[John Sims]

Here's the diagram that Danno posted regarding the three ways to hook up a TiAL.

I am going to use my Reliaboost in single port mode. Danno actually recommends this way compared to dual port mode as it produces less boost spikes. I shall plump for a 0.8 bar spring in the TiAL as that is the minimum I would ever run, and then control it up to 1.05 bar using the Reliaboost

Thanks for that Paul.

Based on the diagram I'm assuming that the top port is left open to the elements? If this is the case I think I might run some Purasil from it into a filter, or at least into the engine bay, to prevent crud ingress.

I am keen to achive a level of adjustabillity for the following reasons:-

1. After my adventures in the snow I would like the option to reduce boost significantly. The high boost makes the car a real liabillity in slippery conditions.

2. Belinda & Peter complain, when ever they are in the car and I use the boost - if I reduce it then the temptation isn't there.

3. I've just received notification of my first speeding offence in 25 years (long over due), 88mph on the M4. I was driving our deisel Freelander at the time. [8|] Reducing the temptation to boost may now be a good thing.

4. Whilst looking for less boost in normal conditions, I want as much as boost as I can get for Track Days, Saxo Bashing, overtaking, general hooliganism etc.


Noting all of the above I think I have convinced myself to go for the adjustable boost option, but what is the crack on boost spikes?

edited to take out an "I" in the wrong place.

 

[John Sims]

Sorry Chaps, another thought.....

The primary/only reason for replacing the standard waste gate is shot springs which mean they bleed pressure at high revs??

If one orders a TiAL with a low spring rating isn't that going to do the same thing?

 

[944Turbo]

I think the tial is different from the standard wastegate in that it is held shut by exhaust pressure rather than pushed open.
I think this kind of removes the need for two ports to a certain extent, but what is the point in having 2 ports if you only use one?
Tony

 

[Fen]

Absolutely right, Tony.

The standard gate is just a really, really bad design where the boost pressure acts to open the valve. With a TiAL (and I guess the Lindsey one Andrew S sells, but I'm not convinced as I've never seen it actually stated, and the Lindsey's ports are the other way round) the boost acts to close the valve and an internal diaphragm and porting is used to open the valve when required.

That's my understanding anyway - the WG is just a regulator effectively and that's how they work, isn't it?

 

[944Turbo]

I wouldn't say a really bad design as the he standard (and i think Andrews /lindsey one) will fail opening early which protects the engine from overboost, the Tial will fail closed which could be quick but messy!
But yes provided the open signal is there as in normal operation it is a much better design.
Tony

 

[Fen]

Ok, agreed, but in my book something that compromises its entire function simply to engineer a particular failure state is not a good design. This is getting into Andrew's tosh about fitting a crap head gasket in case your fuelling goes off, something I vehemently disagree with.

 

[Guest]

Just on a side issue John the purasil is not really heavy duty enough for attaching to the wastegate, get yourself some high pressure fuel pipe about 10mm diameter 6mm internal. Much stiffer.

As for the connection its just a matter of taking the pipe i have on the standard wastegate which is attaced to the Accuboost and poping it onto the side pipe on the tial leaving the top pipe to vent to atmosphere.

18psi at 6000rpm here i come... Stay back there could be low flying pistons!!!!!

 

[Diver944]

Ok I've adpted Dannos diagram to hopefully show why the standard wastegate is a poor design and what happens when the valve opens outward because exhaust pressure exceeds the spring rating and pushes it open. This gets worse over time as the spring weakens

The TiAL wastegate opens inward so it cannot be forced open by exhaust pressure alone. It can only be opened when boost pressure enters the lower chamber and forces the valve up. With no boost controller it will open as soon as pressure is greater than its spring rating. With a boost controller in place the wastegate should not open until boost pressure exceeds whatever the valve is set at.

 

[Fen]

What that also highlights is that because the standard valve opens downwards, even when it is open it still has the valve head "in the way" whereas the TiAL pulls the valve head up to fully open the port into the exhaust system.

Basically 2 things are required from a wastegate - it stays shut when it's meant to and it opens and dumps pressure as quickly as possible when the time comes.

The only reason the bigger gate is "better" is it can get rid of a bigger volume of pressurised intake in a shorter time than a smaller one can because it opens a bigger hole to bleed the pressure off through. It isn't the boost pressure that increases the time to bleed away so much as the volume of air at that pressure.

The downside is that a bigger gate could bleed off too much and then have to close again. If it has bled off too much then precious boost has been lost.

 

[John Sims]

Just on a side issue John the purasil is not really heavy duty enough for attaching to the wastegate, get yourself some high pressure fuel pipe about 10mm diameter 6mm internal. Much stiffer.

I take your point but the intake manifold pressure/vacumme is a closed system - just as if it were filled with water. Therefore, if there were any inadiquacies in the purasil tubing these would be evident if there were any pursil tube in the system any where. This being the case, if purasil is employed on 90% of the vac control lines you might just as well use it on the waste gate. It seems to work for Lindsey Racing.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

I take your point but the intake manifold pressure/vacumme is a closed system - just as if it were filled with water. Therefore, if there were any inadiquacies in the purasil tubing these would be evident if there were any pursil tube in the system any where. This being the case, if purasil is employed on 90% of the vac control lines you might just as well use it on the waste gate. It seems to work for Lindsey R

True John but i was thinking more about the heat.

 

[John Sims]

I've had notification that postage will be $75 but no other comments, requests for methods of payment or anything else.

Have said, "let's do it." but no further contact.

I'm I right in thinking that they need to get 10 orders to process the "Special offer"?

 

[944Turbo]

I phoned last night, gave my credit card details and was told fed ex was about $75, Tim thought they had made 10 orders, but had to check, line was bad so e-mailed my address and spring specs - decided to go for 0.9 as I think standard boost on a 250 is 0.85bar.
Now I am waiting ......................
Tony