Turbo vs. S2

[Fen]

I agree with the sentiment that at anything under "lock-up" speeds, never mind fully legal ones, there is little between cars. I guess because there is very little left to play with in terms of scope to make things faster combined with the effects of the law of diminishing returns.

In the 80's cars with S2/Turbo performance were massively faster than the shopping cars of the day. Today the gap has closed because shopping cars have caught up and it's difficult to move the game on significantly. That said the current breed of fast cars have done so, and the current breed of S2/Turbo equivalents have done so to a degree which is appreciable.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Just had a run back from the West End. Can confirm that a 350Z is quicker away from the lights than a Lux, but after nearly 15 miles of traffic, police cars, cameras and roadworks with average-speed check we were neck & neck at Uxbridge.....[]

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: sawood12
By the way Oli, wasn't meant to be a slur on your, no doubt, more than adequate driving skills.

Scott, if you think my driving skills are 'adequate', you are sadly deluded! I failed my second driving test for knocking a postman off his bicycle, and things haven't got any better since then, I'll have you know! (However, I see what you are saying and can assure you that no offence whatsoever was taken!)

Peanut - push off! []

Fen & Neil - interesting. Thanks.


Oli.

 

[Jonny B]

Its still so annoying when a "big" 1 series bm steams past, let alone the poxy type R's etc, but at the end of the day, the car with the attention at the lights is the comparitively rare lookin 944.
Living in France now, ive seen one 944 this year, an S2 convertable. They are rare as rockin horse poop down Provence. Cant wait to get mine here, if anyone wants to swop a s1 for a lhd s2 get in touch lol.

 

[bigkeeko]

Who cares really if something is amazingly fast? I`m not buying a 944 because they`re fast. I`m buying one because I like them. Some cars feel fast but aren`t and some don`t feel particularly fast but catch you out when you glance at the speedo. I know theres loads of cars I could buy at 7 or 8k that would be quicker than a 944 but they just don`t do it for me.
If I only wanted fast I`d buy a Hayabusa . Nah.[&:]

 

[Wigeon Incognito]

Comparing an S2 to things like the 350Z etc isn't cricket really, a modified Turbo fair enough but not the S2.

When you compare the S2 to modern cars of similar power it still holds its own due to the fantastic handling etc, I think as the cars age the price bracket of the cars to compare them to will come down simply due to the massive leaps in technology over the past 16 years plus.

I had a tussle with an S2000 a few weeks ago, and in terms of straight line speed there was nothing in it (yes he was trying, it was a friend's car). In fact, I was surprised the S2 actually nosed it (as was he). That isn't the sort of treatment I'd like to give my car on a regular basis though although I suppose VTEC engined cars can be easy prey if you catch them off cam which in this case he wasn't.

Looking at on paper figures though the S2000 and S2 are fairly similar.

 

[swright]

ORIGINAL: bigkeeko

Who cares really if something is amazingly fast? I`m not buying a 944 because they`re fast. I`m buying one because I like them. Some cars feel fast but aren`t and some don`t feel particularly fast but catch you out when you glance at the speedo. I know theres loads of cars I could buy at 7 or 8k that would be quicker than a 944 but they just don`t do it for me.
If I only wanted fast I`d buy a Hayabusa . Nah.[&:]

Exactly my sentiments. Its not all about out and out speed for me. I simply have a passion for these cars. Always have always will. Yes there's modern machinery that could show my car a thing or two but so what!!

The amount of looks i get and nods of appreciation brings a smile to my face daily. I have driven and owned for that matter many modern sports cars/fast hatches and none get the attention this car does. And certainly none of them were such a good all round package as the 44's are. Get any 44 with a good driver behind the wheel and it will see off most of these modern boxes through the twistes.

How many times have we seen much faster cars on paper go against porsches on top gear and the porsche always come out on top.

 

[swright]

ORIGINAL: edh

ORIGINAL: swright

But that aside, i have done over 190 miles on a full tank and still have just under half a tank left. And i haven't been holding back on the loud pedal either[] My merc 190 2.6 would have needed filling again by now!!!!

Are you sure the gauge is working properly? [] I think I got around 200 miles from my first tankful when I got mine []

[] My gauge did indeed sudenly drop to a quarter of a tank. I did however get around 250 miles from one tank and the car seems to be over fueling quite badly too.!!!. Around 70 miles of that was motorway driving between 70 and 'cough' 100+

 

[Fen]

I agree that fast isn't everything. There are any number of ways to go faster than any 944 for equivalent money if that's the priority - as I believe I said earlier. There isn't much to compete with the overall performance/quality/price/practicality package at the price, although I did think of one other car that probably could - ironically it was called an S2.

 

[zcacogp]

Interesting .... although I don't think that the 'other' S2's had the same handling delicacy as the 944's (not that I have ever driven one.)

I still hanker very hard after a good RS2. It is one of those cars that I suspect may replace my (944) S2 when the day finally comes. (If I don't buy a 951, that is.)


Oli.

 

[Black_JPN]

I can remember having a bit of fun with a 2001 Seat Leon Cupra once in my S2 back in 2001 just after I'd bought it. Funny, as now I'm in an even older car I'm seeing more newer 2007/2008 Seat's around. Fact is they can't and won't stand the test of time like a Porsche. I always think, yeh ok mate nice car, quick and everything but let's see you turn up in it after 20 years shall we? Because, that's what you're racing against a 20 year old classic which yours will never be. Assuming petrol remains affordable I bet most of us will still be on the roads battling the next generation of Seat's and then the one after that.

Even, my mum made some comment recently when I was taking her to the shops in my car about how her car had some feature or other that mine didn't (hers is a 2007 diesel Astra LHD as she lives in France). It wound me up a bit and I said "look mum we're not comparing apples with apples are we. Show me the F'plate Astra in this car park and let's do a comparison shall we." (we were outside Lidl's at the time so not altogether an unreasonable request). I then mocked looking round and said "that's right, there aren't any, because they've all fallen to bits". Case proved.

 

[poprock]

That's what I like about late-model 944s though: There aren't many modern features they're missing. They're just new enough to have all the major technological advantages yet just old enough to be interesting.

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Interesting .... although I don't think that the 'other' S2's had the same handling delicacy as the 944's (not that I have ever driven one.)

I still hanker very hard after a good RS2. It is one of those cars that I suspect may replace my (944) S2 when the day finally comes. (If I don't buy a 951, that is.)


Oli.

I came oh so close to buying a flettled RS2 a few years ago - it was green and I couldn't quite afford it at the time without breaking my "never borrow money for a car" rule otherwise I would have done.

The other S2 is very closely related to the Ur Quattro which wasn't exactly considered an evil handling beast.

 

[stevep2000]

Was reading the editorial in recent evo mag the other night, and it was talking about the difference between those cars that are 'fun' to drive, vs those that are competent. Suggestion was that although the GTR may be now quicker around the ring than a GT3, which one would you have more fun in? I know there are plenty of quicker cars than my S2, but do they stack up for the fun factor? It also depends on what type of roads your usual journey entails (I'm now primarily 'B' roads) as what the right 'tool' for the job is to provide the most fun / satisfaction.
And ultimately also personal preference & cost of changing.
So going back to the original question, I guess it's very much a subjective evaluation as to whether you'd get enough smiles per mile for your investment in changing from one t'other.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Interesting .... although I don't think that the 'other' S2's had the same handling delicacy as the 944's (not that I have ever driven one.)

I still hanker very hard after a good RS2. It is one of those cars that I suspect may replace my (944) S2 when the day finally comes. (If I don't buy a 951, that is.)


Oli.

Oli, now you're talking. I'd love an RS2 in Maritime Blue on those Cup1 rims and.......

Excuses himself to go to little boys room...[]

 

[Tam Lin]

ORIGINAL: Fen

I agree with the sentiment that at anything under "lock-up" speeds, never mind fully legal ones, there is little between cars.

..and so a lot comes down to how people enjoy to drive: I.e. maximising speed of an "average" speed car like a Group N rally car/ 944 S2, or the rush of a fast car when it's fast, like a modded 952 on boost. I had the privilege of owning a reasonably fast car, a Cerbera with about 300 bhp per ton, yet I found learning to drive it fast was about learning what not to do. Which is fun, unless you're risk averse. I guess I'm risk averse, so I prefer to learn how to do "fast" in a slow car.

 

[zcacogp]

Sure, and a UR-Quatt was my first ever dream car (and remains on the top of the list to this day.)

However I never really heard good things about the handling of the S2 - the engine was a long way forwards (beyond the front wheels) which didn't make for a good handling base. Yes, the 4wd system made up for a lot, but it still didn't have the delicacy of a 944, with the very neutral transaxle layout. (This could be the first time I have ever said anything bad about the original quattro configuration!)

Nick - something like this, perhaps?

http://pistonheads.com/sales/530244.htm

rool:


Oli.

 

[appletonn]

Oli, or this one - just love it in that colour.

http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/530371.htm

Wonder if Mrs Appleton would believe me if I told her it was her new practical family car....?!....[]

 

[zcacogp]

Oh mummy! That is lovely!

Wonder what the MPG is like? It is genuinely practical tho'. While the 944 is good for two people and some luggage, it really is only an occasional four-seater, whereas an RS2/S2 Avant is a genuine family car ...

It's almost a good reason to have kids! *


Oli.

* - Only someone who knows my view on children could ever appreciate the meaning of this, and how much I must therefore want an RS2.

 

[appletonn]

Maybe you could just 'borrow' some for a while - that way you would need an RS2 to carry them around, but you could give them back asap...?![]

During our recent holiday, my better half asked a heavily loaded question about whether i would like any more kids......

...errrm, that'll be a no, then - as she surveyed the look of horror on my face[]

Youngest one is just about to start Primary school, so life is beginning to begin again for us parents[]