Upgrading from M001 to M003

[964RS_Fan]

Dear All,

greeting from a new Forum member, and proud 92' RS owner, located in Cologne Germany. I have to acknowledge that I was deeply impressed by the fact that you folks run a separate forum just for the 964RS. That's truly marvelous.

To my question: I was recently offered a Ferrari-yellow (L10) Clubsport. The beast has seen some race tracks in its history, but at 55tkm the condition is not to bad. I would rate it as a 3 on a scale from 1 to 6. Over here in Germany the market is quite "tight" for these kind of cars. It is not easy to determine a solid market price as a reference. I am wondering what the "going rate" these days in the U.K. for such a car might be.

Any thoughts ?

Attached please find a pic of my current beauty

Klaus

 

[rs phil]

i think the market for 964 rs is better in europe at the moment,sterling is very weak at the moment so you wont get much in euro for it

 

[RSGulp]

Hi Klaus,

Des (Carreraboy on this forum) has just sold his clubsport via Thomas Schmitz in Germany. It has actually been sold to another UK buyer but I'm sure Carreraboy will be along soon and might PM you the current price for a clubsport - his was in good original condition though and no battle scars from the track.

 

[ChrisW]

Agreed to a point --- the N-GT's are a unique car because:
1. The have a unique Vin number series whereas the 993 CS is part of the normal Vin sequence for RS
2. They were road legal and bought by racing teams
3. They were very close to full Cup race car spec, but had a heater which in bad weather does make a serious diference --- honestly !! Main differences with Cup were solid engine mounts and a further -20mm suspension plus ???
4. Values --- the market is very tight.
5. Since they were all left hand drive Thomas is the expert --- in the UK a good one must be worth £70k + --- in Europe maybe more
6. Many have had a very hard life --- so maintenance history, renewal of wearing components, panel originality and any history of major damage will be real issues.

There is one Signal Green car in the UK which is almost undriven --- and would arguably lose a lot of value if it was driven as Porsche had intended, but that may now be worth £110 k ???

The classic catch 22.

Now I have nailed my colours to the mast, what does everybody else think ??

Good luck!!! Beautiful beautifal cars, in fact, my very favourite.

 

[h_____]

As the current owner of Des's car, I feel obliged to ensure this thread is accurate. The car is in very good condition, as stated, it has spent a considerable amount of time (well it was built as a race car!), and in its time has tasted the tyre wall. So its not a 100% original panel car, it has however been repaired properly.

This is indeed an interesting subject. Something to consider. Race teams dont tend to maintain service history. So if the car was sold for purpose that itwas intended, its early life is unlikely to have a stamped service book. Same with having original panels.

I think the cars fall into 2 catagories. Mint, non-raced, original panel (probably low miles) collectors cars. Check Thomas's site, there was a nice yellow one there last week. And raced, tracked and used (but cared for) cars. I think at the moment the difference in price is substantial.

Would the yellow one happen to have RSR bodywork?

Last I spoke to Thomas, he had a black NGT in the used, but looked after end of the market coming in. I understand many cars dont sell through the website, but through customers registering an interest, as stated a tight market.

 

[carreraboy]

From my recent experience a good standard N-GT is from £50K plus in reasonably good conditiononly about 52 Euro! Cheap in the UK, Tomas and others are hoovering up 64 and 93RS here in the UK ..... Cheapest N-GT 64 in Europe 60K Euro ... buy in UK sell in Europe ...

Enquirer speak to Paul McLean GT Classics he might have a N-GT kurking .....

Colour is also a big premium, the pastels are worth more than the Blacks and reds...

White, Maritime, Mint Green best colours in the reverse order .....

Tomas wanted to retail my car for 70K in Europe!

 

[Melv]

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

5. Since they were all left hand drive Thomas is the expert --- in the UK a good one must be worth £70k + --- in Europe maybe more

Lop at least £10K easily off that at the mo... [&:]

Oh, and welcome to the Club Klaus![]

 

[mike2]

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=de&id=98971622&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=20100&makeModelVariant1.modelDescription=rs&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&colors=YELLOW&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=NO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=1

Regards,
Michael

 

[RSGulp]

ORIGINAL: mike2

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=de&id=98971622&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=20100&makeModelVariant1.modelDescription=rs&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Car&segment=Car&siteId=GERMANY&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&colors=YELLOW&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=NO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=1

Regards,
Michael

Same car here in £££s

 

[ChrisW]

ORIGINAL: Melv

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

5. Since they were all left hand drive Thomas is the expert --- in the UK a good one must be worth £70k + --- in Europe maybe more

Lop at least £10K easily off that at the mo... [&:]

Oh, and  welcome to the Club Klaus![]

I suppose the devil is in the detail of "a good one" ?

 

[h_____]

The one posted as a link above is an interesting one. As it has a wide body kit albeit from factory, I think it narrows the market for buyers. Been for sale for a while. Thread on Pistonheads on it.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: h_____

The one posted as a link above is an interesting one. As it has a wide body kit albeit from factory, I think it narrows the market for buyers. Been for sale for a while. Thread on Pistonheads on it.

Is it?

 

[RIVIERAM002]

There is a mint green clubsport around the corner from me which offered the right money will be available, just had a 6k barrel and piston rebuild, you all know the car.

 

[carreraboy]

Fabulous car ..... tell Tomas our mate ......

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: RSGulp

Hi Klaus,

Des (Carreraboy on this forum) has just sold his clubsport via Thomas Schmitz in Germany. It has actually been sold to another UK buyer but I'm sure Carreraboy will be along soon and might PM you the current price for a clubsport - his was in good original condition though and no battle scars from the track.

Errrrr, yeah....right [][]

[]

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: h_____

The one posted as a link above is an interesting one. As it has a wide body kit albeit from factory, I think it narrows the market for buyers. Been for sale for a while. Thread on Pistonheads on it.

Not sure this was a wide body from the factory originally!

Is this the car that held the track record at goodwood or somewhere? If it is its been for sale for a long time?

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

Agreed to a point --- the N-GT's are a unique car because:
1. The have a unique Vin number series whereas the 993 CS is part of the normal Vin sequence for RS
2. They were road legal and bought by racing teams
3. They were very close to full Cup race car spec, but had a heater which in bad weather does make a serious diference --- honestly !! Main differences with Cup were solid engine mounts and a further -20mm suspension plus ???
4. Values --- the market is very tight.
5. Since they were all left hand drive Thomas is the expert --- in the UK a good one must be worth £70k + --- in Europe maybe more
6. Many have had a very hard life --- so maintenance history, renewal of wearing components, panel originality and any history of major damage will be real issues.

There is one Signal Green car in the UK which is almost undriven --- and would arguably lose a lot of value if it was driven as Porsche had intended, but that may now be worth £110 k ???

The classic catch 22.

Now I have nailed my colours to the mast, what does everybody else think ??

Good luck!!! Beautiful beautifal cars, in fact, my very favourite.

1. Don't think anyone buying one really cares about VIN sequence and don't believe it adds value
2. They are road legal depending which country you are in[]
3. Agreed closer to cup than to RSL
4. Tight?
5. Disagree bet you can still pick up decent ones this year at 50-55k. certainly speak to Thomas and Paul if you are in UK
6. Originality seems to be an issue only with originality despo's who want to stick it in the garage. Most will have had some work done by now I bet...just depends on the extent and the quality. One way to know is to make sure you get a full inspection by someone who REALLY knows these.

Great cars, only didn't get one myself as was almost literally scared to death in one on the roads by someone driving it at just mad speeds...thought I'd kill myself in it so ended up with the RS instead!!

 

[RSGulp]

ORIGINAL: jason

ORIGINAL: RSGulp

Hi Klaus,

Des (Carreraboy on this forum) has just sold his clubsport via Thomas Schmitz in Germany. It has actually been sold to another UK buyer but I'm sure Carreraboy will be along soon and might PM you the current price for a clubsport - his was in good original condition though and no battle scars from the track.

Errrrr, yeah....right [][]

[]

Sorry I didn't mean to misinform anyone. What I meant was it was very well looked after and certainly didn't look like it had just come off the back of a race team's transporter.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: jason

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

Agreed to a point --- the N-GT's are a unique car because:
1. The have a unique Vin number series whereas the 993 CS is part of the normal Vin sequence for RS
2. They were road legal and bought by racing teams
3. They were very close to full Cup race car spec, but had a heater which in bad weather does make a serious diference --- honestly !! Main differences with Cup were solid engine mounts and a further -20mm suspension plus ???
4. Values --- the market is very tight.
5. Since they were all left hand drive Thomas is the expert --- in the UK a good one must be worth £70k + --- in Europe maybe more
6. Many have had a very hard life --- so maintenance history, renewal of wearing components, panel originality and any history of major damage will be real issues.

There is one Signal Green car in the UK which is almost undriven --- and would arguably lose a lot of value if it was driven as Porsche had intended, but that may now be worth £110 k ???

The classic catch 22.

Now I have nailed my colours to the mast, what does everybody else think ??

Good luck!!! Beautiful beautifal cars, in fact, my very favourite.

1. Don't think anyone buying one really cares about VIN sequence and don't believe it adds value
2. They are road legal depending which country you are in[]
3. Agreed closer to cup than to RSL
4. Tight?
5. Disagree bet you can still pick up decent ones this year at 50-55k. certainly speak to Thomas and Paul if you are in UK
6. Originality seems to be an issue only with originality despo's who want to stick it in the garage. Most will have had some work done by now I bet...just depends on the extent and the quality. One way to know is to make sure you get a full inspection by someone who REALLY knows these.

Great cars, only didn't get one myself as was almost literally scared to death in one on the roads by someone driving it at just mad speeds...thought I'd kill myself in it so ended up with the RS instead!!

Thank God for a fully FiA N-GT than a closed series C2 CONVERTED ...catch on Guys please .....[:-] Prices will be and should be streets ahead than a C2 Cup[]

 

[paul howells]

A interesting post
Go for the clubsport,better long term.So what if its been raced,as long as its straight and all sound.Most race cars get far better service and attention to detail than any opc service jocky can give,or warm garage racer parked up for most of its life.
Why blow wind up dealers back sides,find them privately,better deals to possibley be had for club members,You are all better off creating a inner circle,it will happen one day.

The 993rscs statement is not strictly true about vin numbers,you may well find all clubsports that i have found so far have a slight differance to the standard rs,apart from the ex factory ex fred hampton car,which was a very early build rs.And of course special chassis numbers does not make a bit of a differance,unless its a dealer trying to steel it off you for trade price or lower etc,and of coure the colour is never good to sell on is it[]

Just wait until the cup cars hit the historic race scene,for price increase.It wont be long now!!! Then mel will be laughing .[]