Upgrading from M001 to M003

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: paul howells

Just wait until the cup cars hit the historic race scene,for price increase.It wont be long now!!! Then mel will be laughing .[]

Interesting aspect, but for sure correct. Once the historic race scene will figure out that these cars are turn key racers with low running cost (compared to other cars) prices will rise. Maybe a history with matching numbers will help also.
And - at least from my personal point of view - a Cup car is a fast car. So, yes, the price increase will come.

Gotta ask the holy preacher of price tendencies for a private audience....[]

Mit vorzüglicher Hochachtung (how is that, Des?)

Hacki

 

[carreraboy]

N-GT FiA M003 (A REAL RS) is the true thoroughbred and NOT a converted Carrera C2 ...........[]

 

[Melv]

ORIGINAL: paul howells

Just wait until the cup cars hit the historic race scene,for price increase.It wont be long now!!! Then mel will be laughing .[]

Oh yes!! I can wait! []

But I still intend to use it![]

 

[Melv]

ORIGINAL: Hacki


Gotta ask the holy preacher of price tendencies for a private audience....[]

Mit vorzüglicher Hochachtung (how is that, Des?)

Hacki

ROFLAPIMP!!!![][][]

 

[carreraboy]

SO WHATS THE TRANSLATION HACKI ....?

 

[MichM3]

great car the N-GT's!!! go for it!!!

...didn't know they N-GT's were road-legal...Maybe in GB, and some of them in Germany with a special mention on the "Fahrzeugbrief"...but as far as I know in Belgium, France, Spain, Italy,... they aren't raod legal because of the welded cage...pity

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

SO WHATS THE TRANSLATION HACKI ....?

It means something like "With excellent respect", it´s a very formal way to finish a letter.

Hacki mitdemweißencuprennwagen aufdemweg nachspa!

 

[964RS_Fan]

Dear All,
thx a lot for the many many interesting hints. In ze meantime I contacted Paul @ GT-Classics. Let's see what the outcome is gonna be. I shall report later ... As far as Thomas is concerned: I know him through my treasure hunt for a nice RS back from 2005. He knows the market really by heart and he was always very helpful with information. His cars are always a safe bet from my perspective, but ..... it is just that they are a little too big to fit my wallet. I figured if I can get hold of a nice beauty directly, i.e. withouth a dealer in betwenn, I might just get what I am looking for.

@ "h_____" : I consider myself to be a "slim body" fan ... real life and Porsche that is [] The color scheme is quite nice - L10 / Ferrari yellow - I suppose, but the wing and the width of the car is a bit too much. One more thin "h": I agree with your segmentation of the market/cars into 2 categories. It might oversimply it a bit but in general u are on ze money. In this sense I think I am a borderline 1 to 2 candidate. I don't mind the car beeing raced and not beeing in perfect condition but if it was heavily utilised I think i would not like it. That is just because I am a bit of a perfectionist.

Attached a pic of a Clubsport that I reviewed last week. The chassis is straight but it had been raced quite a bit. No matching numbers but the gearbox and the engine no. fall within the RS production line. Engine rated at 319hp. The paint appears on the pic better than in real life. To make me happy it would need a complete paint job. Mileage at 52tkm. At 80k € w/out the paint job it is from my point of view c. 20% too expensive. But i might be wrong.

Cheers for now,
Klaus

PS: Link to the German RS Register. My car is on it as well: http://www.rs.pocg.de/members/members.htm

 

[ChrisW]

OK, so this is getting really interesting.

If we accept that £55k is a sensible kind of price --- say Euro 60k ?

1. Originality is important --- and the bits aren't cheap if it's incomplete. Original numbers are a plus ? Both mechanically and bodily ?
2. Required work is expensive
3. Inspection by an expert is worthwhile

Some may look for a trackday workhorse that ma cost in the future, or may not, but what might the extra costs be ?

£5k for a top end rebuild
£10k for a full rebuild with new bearings, pistons etc
£10k for a full respray by an "expert" who will keep it original
£1500 for a clutch
£2500 for suspension refresh
£3500 for a set of mags

Now, what would be the value of a "good" one that has had all this work done ?

The asking price for the yellow car is Euro80k ... and Euro 65k would be good value ? = £60k ? ish ?

Maybe I am being silly with the separate Vin number series, but at least you know it didn't start off in life an M002 !

 

[clubsport]

Chris, have a look on the rear shelf of your NGT, there is a shell number stamped there, something else to worry about! []

 

[ChrisW]

And interestingly, there isn't a shell number on a Cup car.

Because shells were designed to be replaced ?? !!

As an aside, how does this shell number relate to the panel numbers ? It seems to be completely different !

Or does Porsche have a master file somewhere ? []

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

And interestingly, there isn't a shell number on a Cup car.

Because shells were designed to be replaced ?? !!

As an aside, how does this shell number relate to the panel numbers ? It seems to be completely different !

Or does Porsche have a master file somewhere ? []

My Cup car has a shell no., didn´t check the panelnumbers though. AFAIK they should match.

Rgds

Hacki

 

[paul howells]

Chris where do you get your info from,no production number is a time to worry,or you have a special car of some sort.
Its not just on the back shelf

 

[Ian964]

ORIGINAL: ChrisW

And interestingly, there isn't a shell number on a Cup car.

Because shells were designed to be replaced ?? !!

As an aside, how does this shell number relate to the panel numbers ? It seems to be completely different !

Or does Porsche have a master file somewhere ? []

My '92 Cup car has a shell number, a portion of which matches the numbers on the panels where I can find them (bonnet, engine lid). I'll have a look to see the exact relationship.

 

[65 mat]

Is there a relationship between the panel numbers and the vin number? Does every panel have a number? If so where? Do the doors even have a number? [8|]

Just noseying around my car which was built around a '90 Cup Car shell. Mr Alzen must have removed the one on the rear shelf ( or is it painted over?) because I can't see it. Just wondering where else to look out of curiosity....there is one on the bonnet which reads 40021. Not worried about originality on my car because in theory it isn't a Porsche because it has a Jurgen Alzen chassis number! I would love to know which Cup Car was used as a donor however and I was wondering if these panel numbers may have helped answer the question.

 

[paul howells]

The production number links up with chassis number on factory records
Even spares shells normally have a production number.
Paint can hide it,look up from the engine bay to see if there is a indent number,it will also be on the dash steel frame by the ashtray was/ is under the knee pad.
If no number the panel may have been replaced.

 

[65 mat]

Took the knee pads off on both sides and no number. Had a look in the engine bay....can't see anything. Not to worry, as I assumed earlier, Jurgen must have 'removed' them when he created his 'own thing'. One thing I did notice is that it used to be painted in Maritime Blue!

 

[RSGulp]

I remember discussing shell/panel/enginelid/bonnet numbers here a couple of years ago.

Not sure whether we got any further with how they all match up with the shell and how they correlate with the VIN though? I guess the factory had a system going once - and guess there would be no record of it anymore. []

Shell Numbers Thread

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: 964RS_Fan

Dear All,
thx a lot for the many many interesting hints. In ze meantime I contacted Paul @ GT-Classics. Let's see what the outcome is gonna be. I shall report later ... As far as Thomas is concerned: I know him through my treasure hunt for a nice RS back from 2005. He knows the market really by heart and he was always very helpful with information. His cars are always a safe bet from my perspective, but ..... it is just that they are a little too big to fit my wallet. I figured if I can get hold of a nice beauty directly, i.e. withouth a dealer in betwenn, I might just get what I am looking for.

@ "h_____" : I consider myself to be a "slim body" fan ... real life and Porsche that is [] The color scheme is quite nice - L10 / Ferrari yellow - I suppose, but the wing and the width of the car is a bit too much. One more thin "h": I agree with your segmentation of the market/cars into 2 categories. It might oversimply it a bit but in general u are on ze money. In this sense I think I am a borderline 1 to 2 candidate. I don't mind the car beeing raced and not beeing in perfect condition but if it was heavily utilised I think i would not like it. That is just because I am a bit of a perfectionist.

Attached a pic of a Clubsport that I reviewed last week. The chassis is straight but it had been raced quite a bit. No matching numbers but the gearbox and the engine no. fall within the RS production line. Engine rated at 319hp. The paint appears on the pic better than in real life. To make me happy it would need a complete paint job. Mileage at 52tkm. At 80k € w/out the paint job it is from my point of view c. 20% too expensive. But i might be wrong.

Cheers for now,
Klaus

PS: Link to the German RS Register. My car is on it as well: http://www.rs.pocg.de/members/members.htm

A really interesting thread. I think I was in a similar position to you, although a bit happier to be closer to the bottom of the market. I too, am a narrow body man, the yellow car (w/ wide body) just seems a little bespoke to ensure a good market in the future. My criteria was a matching numbers car in reasonable used condition. I wasnt too worried about matching panels or condition of the paint. I was also keen it had all the original parts (steering wheel, mags, FEs, ali bonnet etc). The thought really is to keep the car 10years and hope that historic racing becomes a possibility. In the meantime, I can use it as a road car, and learn how to drive it on track. As it has been raced before, I wont feel too bad taking it back on the track, and I dont think it will devalue it further. I did know that I didnt want a garage queen, as I would be too worried to drive it.

There are some pretty cars on that site you post!!!

 

[chfs911]

I checked a few shell nos at Spa. Mev's mine and Haki's(from email) all come from C2 production nos.

They are all in correct order for VINs to which is reassuring.


Ian's Cup and ex Des M003 cars had the RS series shell nos.

The shell nos are visible through the rear widow on the RHS. The engine lid, doors and bonnet all have the same shell no. stamped.

Porsche can give you a ipass with the shell and VIN nos so you can check the car has not been reshelled and or major bits replaced.

If shell nos are missing then it is likely the car has been tampered with but why would they do that.....?

This is why you need to inspect these cars before purchase.