Are Spyders Becoming Extinct At OPCs!

[clubsport]

The point I was trying to make on Speedster numbers you over looked was the fact that there are relatively few rhd models, particularly UK rhd variants. Also, pnce was fairly low, in that out of warranty 10-15 year "twilight" zone for cars, when they may or may not become classics?........It took a while for values to climb, they really were a slow burner! The 911 CS is a good car, it is certainly nowhere near as developed as the aircooled RS models. I suspect it's value in the UK is down to the 53 rhd UK cars, if there had been 200-250, I very much doubt it would be quite so sought after, which makes sense to me. Maybe one question we should all be asking, is will we and where will we be able to drive any of these cars in 20 years? []

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: flat6

ORIGINAL: jdpef356 So what is a Porsche Classic? Food for thought. Take a look at the following Photos of this years Classics at the Castle - Hedingham:- http://www.sportscardigest.com/porsche-classics-at-the-castle-2013-report-and-photos/ Not a Spyder in site but come twenty odd years the Spyder could well make an appearance in the line up[]

A great collection of cars in those pics. One observation is that all the pics I saw were of 911's or 356's and all but one of the race cars I saw was 911 based. Might just be the choice of the editor, but does pose the question, has any Porsche introduced after the 911 (apart from supercars like the Carrera GT) become intensely sought after? I don't know, hence I ask the question.

Correction. I hadn't noticed that Classics at the Castle was for pre-'74 cars, but was thinking of all the non-911 or 356 models that are now 20 to 30 years old, of which there are plenty but have any of them achieved the desirability of the 911 in their old age? If the comfort spec GT3 isn't selling (I haven't checked) it's certainly not the same for the Spyder, for which all spec combo's are selling pretty equally. Maybe that's because some don't consider the Spyder from the same perspective as a GT3 and 'comfort' is not such contradiction in purpose. For me, the Spyder is 'only' a sports car, not a track animal like a GT3. If I wanted a car that I predominantly reserved for the track, the Boxster Spyder certainly would not be it. I appreciate that others see it differently. As a sports car, i.e. a road car, it has a job to do to cater for a variety of tastes. Those who see it as 'just' a sports car and go to track in something more aimed at that purpose, might prefer to have AC and and radio in their Spyder road car and not in their track car. Before I view a 987 as a track car, Porsche would have to produce a Cayman (yes, Cayman, not a roadster) even more hardcore than the R, more than a 10bhp power upgrade etc. etc. and those things i'd like to see, I wouldn't expect to be applied to a roadster. To me, the Spyder and R are great road cars that have brilliant handling for the likes of EVO triangle and 'fun' on track but to be driven predominantly on the road and so spec'd according to a combination of your road and 'fun' use. I appreciate that others have a higher opinion of its track prowess.

 

[kitchens]

Just had the Spyder's first service done at 5036 miles and it was Free part of the negotiations when i bought it in May 2013 with 1450 miles on the clock . No advisory points .hand brake was adjusted and that was it . I spoke to the salesman who sold me the car and i was telling him about the following we have on the PCGB forum.He was amazed at the number of hits . He was the one that specked the car when they ordered it in Sept 2011 and i told him he did a good job and ticked all the right boxes . I said some have non Spyder wheels and Sports seats etc he said at one point buckets and wheels where in short supply this may answer why some have what is considered the wrong bits.[] I was given a loan 981 manual Boxster 2.7 with Sport Mode and PSE but have to say was not taken with it .Had Alcantara seats not sports fitted if you think Buckets are firm you should try these the buckets fell like a comfy arm chair in comparison .I did like the gear shift to be fair a lot easier to select than the short shifter . He had 4 inquiries after he sold my car and has people on a list if a car becomes available . Have to say i prefer the Spyder over the car i drove did not like the electric park brake or the stop start mode it suits PDK but not a manual the boot is small also no chance of golf clubs fitting in .

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: rob.kellock Maybe we should start racing them and build up our own pedigree/ heritage!!

It's a good point in that racing heritage counts for a lot. As daro911 and Clubsport have said, the 911 Speedsters have not necessarily been good to drive, but the 911 as a brand, built on racing heritage, has allowed all sorts of variants to ride on that brand, whether they are racy variants or not. My point about the Boxster Spyder is that its future collectability may come partly down to the brand of the Boxster. I think in years to come there'll still be 200 people in the UK wanting a 987 Spyder, but how badly will they want one i.e. what will they pay for one. It remains to be seen. If say it retains a 10% premium over a Boxster, then that will still be clear downward trend in value. Let's see if it deviates from the Boxster's depreciation more widely over time.

ORIGINAL: rob.kellock It's not enough for me to stop me enjoying driving mine and put into mothballs just yet

Indeed!

 

[spyderwhite]

kitchens I think you meant your car was ordered sept2010 as production ceased end of june2011.have we finished looking into our crystal balls regarding values?mrdemon your car will be no more or less sort after than any other spyder it will all come down to factory build age and condition although right wheels is a must. imho any late build 987.2/997.2 will hold its value well because if you look into the number of cars built 2009-2011 this was at an all time low a bit like the 993 era.plus they are the last of the non electric steer cars etc and a big improvement over 996/7.1 but with regards to spyder values in 10 years at present a good 2003 986s is circa £10-12k so a 10 year old spyder maybe circa £15-17k all speculation of course.just my 2pence worth bailing out of this one now

 

[clubsport]

With respect to display cars at Classic at the Castle event.... Don't forget, this years theme was 50 years of the 911. There were quite a few of our post '74 cars parked in the main parade arena, celebrating the life span of the 911 variant. It was a fantastic spectacle and event. I understand the theme next year is in favour of the 356. As the Boxster came out in 1996, why not put the Spyders away now and preserve your cars for the 50 years of the Boxster event in 2046! []

 

[jdpef356]

New page new Spyder picture - if your hood looks like this in ten years time your car wont be worth a carrot![][]

Or some may think this option makes it a one off and it worth a fortune - think what you like[:-] Your investment in any car is the enjoyment of ownership and driving it - if you happen to make a few bob or break even well thats a bonus![]

 

[daro911]

Spydermen ... As an ex 1989 Speedster owner for 14 years with many concours wins in the bag with the beast I can confirm there was originally only 65 UK cars all wide body and 2104 world wide The next 964 Speedster came to the UK in tiny numbers circa 14 and all narrow bodied worldwide production never came close to projected figures and I think barely made it to 936 in total 997 Speedster Porsche had a much more sensible plan instead of making it cheaper they made it astronomically expensive and restricted production to just 356 world wide and I believe the UK saw circa 13 cars once again So if you do the maths and factor in the 20 years before the first 2 Speedsters went way North of list price (£55000) you can see 237 Spyders would struggle to make it back to list price but they may hover in the £20k+ to 30K + for many more years to come if the 981 Spyder doesn't come to the party

[link=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/2010_Blue_Porsche_911_Speedster_997_Mondial_Paris_4013x2675.jpg]

[/link]

 

[kitchens]

ORIGINAL: spyderwhite kitchens I think you meant your car was ordered sept2010 as production ceased end of june2011.have we finished looking into our crystal balls regarding values?mrdemon your car will be no more or less sort after than any other spyder it will all come down to factory build age and condition although right wheels is a must. imho any late build 987.2/997.2 will hold its value well because if you look into the number of cars built 2009-2011 this was at an all time low a bit like the 993 era.plus they are the last of the non electric steer cars etc and a big improvement over 996/7.1 but with regards to spyder values in 10 years at present a good 2003 986s is circa £10-12k so a 10 year old spyder maybe circa £15-17k all speculation of course.just my 2pence worth bailing out of this one now

No idea as to build date , my car was specked by the dealers it was registered by them on 28/9/ 2011 with 4 miles on the clock It sat in their showroom for 6 months unsold as it was too expensive over a 987 cost was £58k and being the winter did not sell until May of 2012 . It was sold back to them on 7/5/2013 when i bought it with 1450 miles so it is now 2years old and as such registered as a 2011 on the V5 . It is fully warranted till Sept 2015 . I agree cars can sit in fields for years before being sold and the may have been built in say 2010 but not sold till 2011 but as far as the V5 is concerned it is 2011 and not a 2010 car

 

[VvrooomM]

ORIGINAL: MrDemon to billy1 and VvrooomM I might be deluded, but at least I voice my opinion and not just call people deluded with no reason why If people don't agree back it up with your thoughts why, not name calling . As for classics in the Castle yes they were all old cars, if you were post 74 you could not park with them. The Boxster was not launched till 1996 so it's not going to be heading up a pre 74 classic event is it ;-) The Spyder is the 1st Boxster with such bespoke body work to the norm and only about 220 UK models, of course it will be a classic at some point. How long that takes, who knows, what spec will people want , who knows. were the best Porsche race cars mid engine (917), of course they were as are the CGT and the new 918. And le mans 2014 will see another one regarding comfort spec GT3 esp the early 996 ones dealers cannot shift them for love nor money, most I talked to have been bitten and would not restock a non bucket seated 996 GT3 again.

I'm all for voicing reasoned opinion, but to voice it time and time again is tiring. I've also never seen anyone criticise your spec in the way you belittle (in my opinion) other owners. Might be confusing people here but if you also upset the gt3 crowd , I actually stuck up for you on there. Spec has been done to death, again and again on here.

 

[MrDemon]

Driving a Boxster Spyder is a commitment. A commitment to unconditional driving pleasure. A commitment to that which matters to roadster enthusiasts: ;-) You said your self you would not buy a car with out buckets or Spyder wheels. The few GT3 boys were nothing more than bullies and ones which could not answer my simple question and kept back pedalling. When I did turn up at the track and filmed the cars and proved my point, the excuse was they had 4 year old tyres on lol you could not make it up.

 

[daro911]

Evo Future Icons is a good read despite some school boy research errors in pricing! etc I think they were a little harsh giving the Spyder a ££/5 for investment potential as I think £££/5 would have been fairer especially as their current value rating was equally inaccurate However on the all important fun, performance, looks etc they gave it a well deserved 5/5

 

[jdpef356]

Your investment in any car is the enjoyment of ownership and driving it - if you happen to make a few bob or break even well thats a bonus!

Purchased mag a week ago - well worth keeping with the history of your car []

 

[kitchens]

ORIGINAL: daro911 Evo Future Icons is a good read despite some school boy research errors in pricing! etc I think they were a little harsh giving the Spyder a ££/5 for investment potential as I think £££/5 would have been fairer especially as their current value rating was equally inaccurate However on the all important fun, performance, looks etc they gave it a well deserved 5/5

When was the car ever at £44K ?? and find me one at £23K you would be killed in the stampede [] as you said a lot of inaccuracies ,Will look out for the mag .

 

[homerdog]

All this talk of what is the best spec is all very well and good, but there has been absolutely no pattern in the way the different spec cars have sold - I suspect that most people buy on condition and history, which is the same for most cars. As somebody mentioned earlier in this thread, driving the car won't show up any minor differences in weight and, if you believe my OPC, plenty of customers don't like the buckets, so I suspect it's not the issue certain people claim it to be. To me, only two things really matter with a Spyder, the way it looks and the way it drives - and they all have that in common (unless it's a press car, of course, because they were built by a team of crack Porsche engineers and are lighter, faster and better looking than normal cars!). []

 

[Siy]

Yup - the key thing here isdoes saving 10-20kg really make any difference at all in real world driving..... I would say obviously every little counts of course... but I am not a good enough driver for it to make the blindest bit of a difference! I would consider myself an average sports car enthusiast - and there was frankly no way that I would have bought a Spyder without PCM, Spyder Wheels or air con (and buckets for that matter - but thats more a personal thing) - there were of course a lot of other extras that I desired (and fortunately got)... but these 'heavy' pieces of kit are essential to me in a car costing 40k..... Frankly, there were cheaper cars without some of these bits - some of which I viewed - but couldnt bring myself to compromise and buy something which didnt have essential kit.

 

[billy1]

ORIGINAL: Siy Yup - the key thing here isdoes saving 10-20kg really make any difference at all in real world driving..... I would say obviously every little counts of course... but I am not a good enough driver for it to make the blindest bit of a difference! I would consider myself an average sports car enthusiast - and there was frankly no way that I would have bought a Spyder without PCM, Spyder Wheels or air con (and buckets for that matter - but thats more a personal thing) - there were of course a lot of other extras that I desired (and fortunately got)... but these 'heavy' pieces of kit are essential to me in a car costing 40k..... Frankly, there were cheaper cars without some of these bits - some of which I viewed - but couldnt bring myself to compromise and buy something which didnt have essential kit.

The thing is that apparently your personal preferences are "wrong" simply because they are not the same as someone elses.... Apparently PDK is "wrong" but most of the recently sold cars have been PDK. Go figure!

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: Siy I would consider myself an average sports car enthusiast - and there was frankly no way that I would have bought a Spyder without PCM, Spyder Wheels or air con (and buckets for that matter - but thats more a personal thing) - there were of course a lot of other extras that I desired (and fortunately got)... but these 'heavy' pieces of kit are essential to me in a car costing 40k.....

I was completely fooled by some of the hype until I went to PEC for a Spyder day and drove both a very fat boy not even on Spyder wheels and a copy of Mr D's car but with the extra weight of a radio and metallic paint[] They both drove identically to me and the instructor confirmed in actual feel they are identical and if the cars were timed on a lap yes the fat boy "might" be 0.0? something slower across the distance but absolutely nothing worth sacrificing some of the toys for[] When I went to lunch with 5 other Boxster owners at the table I discovered the only one prepared to buy was ME! 3 of the other owners used the car as a 2nd-3rd car and said they couldn't live with the buckets, the roof and most of all the pricing! The 2 other owners used the car as a daily driver even though they didn't do mega miles a year but the roof and seats again were a deal breaker So I decided after that session to forget buying and watch the market for a year and see what happens When I decided to buy my first ever used Porsche as much as I wanted buckets the deal breaker for me would have been no full leather option. My dream spec turned up with a few toys too many for me i.e. sat nav, vts, white dials, auto dimming mirrors, cup holders, but it did have my full leather and now I had the knowledge that my intended brand new lighter version would have still driven identical to my 2nd hand over specced fat boy The key to the feel is in the lower centre of gravity, the loss of the power lined roof, weight of the steel doors, hood tonneau and boot lid along with the tuned sport chassis As a few dealers have said to me when they buy a Spyder whichever chairs it has they are always the ones their buyer doesn't really want and i am sure they say the same to the seller when they are negotiating to buy the Spyder in for stock

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: daro911

ORIGINAL: Siy I would consider myself an average sports car enthusiast - and there was frankly no way that I would have bought a Spyder without PCM, Spyder Wheels or air con (and buckets for that matter - but thats more a personal thing) - there were of course a lot of other extras that I desired (and fortunately got)... but these 'heavy' pieces of kit are essential to me in a car costing 40k.....

I was completely fooled by some of the hype until I went to PEC for a Spyder day and drove both a very fat boy not even on Spyder wheels and a copy of Mr D's car but with the extra weight of a radio and metallic paint[] They both drove identically to me and the instructor confirmed in actual feel they are identical and if the cars were timed on a lap yes the fat boy "might" be 0.0? something slower across the distance but absolutely nothing worth sacrificing some of the toys for[] When I went to lunch with 5 other Boxster owners at the table I discovered the only one prepared to buy was ME! 3 of the other owners used the car as a 2nd-3rd car and said they couldn't live with the buckets, the roof and most of all the pricing! The 2 other owners used the car as a daily driver even though they didn't do mega miles a year but the roof and seats again were a deal breaker So I decided after that session to forget buying and watch the market for a year and see what happens When I decided to buy my first ever used Porsche as much as I wanted buckets the deal breaker for me would have been no full leather option. My dream spec turned up with a few toys too many for me i.e. sat nav, vts, white dials, auto dimming mirrors, cup holders, but it did have my full leather and now I had the knowledge that my intended brand new lighter version would have still driven identical to my 2nd hand over specced fat boy The key to the feel is in the lower centre of gravity, the loss of the power lined roof, weight of the steel doors, hood tonneau and boot lid along with the tuned sport chassis As a few dealers have said to me when they buy a Spyder whichever chairs it has they are always the ones their buyer doesn't really want and i am sure they say the same to the seller when they are negotiating to buy the Spyder in for stock

Nothing to add but a thumbs up[]

 

[Siy]

exactly!